Andrew: Hey there, freedom fighters. My name is Andrew Warner. I’m the founder of Mixergy.com, home of the ambitious upstart.
And when I looked at my lineup of interviews to record for today — I record several of them in one day and the team edits and releases them over time — I saw that we were going to feature, I was going interview a guy that sells vacuum accessories and I said, “What’s the team up to? How did we end up with the vacuum accessory business? This is a software-based interview program. Now of course, we don’t stay so focused on it that we’re like TechCrunch where we pretend the rest of the world doesn’t exist, but we focus on tech. What are we doing with vacuum accessories?”
I started looking at the research that my team put together. I said, “This guy is huge on Amazon. He built up this Inc. 500 company. They’re listed there and we’ll talk about the revenues that Inc. reported that he had throughout this interview. And then I saw how he built it way beyond just Amazon, how he put this business on autopilot and how because he built this business on autopilot. He now has a software company that he’s growing and allowing some people to use some of what he learned — all of what he learned — as he built up his retail business.
By the end of reading my team’s research — and man, they’re good — I said, “I’ve got to have this guy on. We have to feature him on Mixergy.” So, here he is. His name is Chad Rubin. That vacuum business that I told you about, it’s called Crucial Vacuum. It morphed into Crucial Coffee, so many other Crucials. He likes to call the company Crucial.
We’ll talk about all the different parts of his business that he created. We’ll also talk about how he got customers, how he grew and so on. If you’re into selling physical products online, you’re going to love this part of this interview.
In addition, as I said, because that business is running on autopilot, he also now has a software company. It’s called Skubana. It’s an all-in-one software to manage your entire ecommerce business. So, if you’re selling on Amazon, Etsy and so many other places, his software, Skubana, will make it easy for you to manage it on so you can focus on sales and not wonder, “Did we sell this on Etsy? Let’s make sure we’re not selling on Amazon,” that kind of thing it avoids.
All right. I want to find out how he built up the software, how he built up the retail business and I can do it all thanks to–well, thanks to you, my listener–and also thanks to HostGator, which I’ll tell you about later on and Toptal. Again, I’ll tell you about those two sponsors later on. First, Chad, welcome.
Chad: Thanks for having me.
Andrew: You were a Wall Street guy. Did you like working on Wall Street before all this?
Chad: I learned a ton on Wall Street but my culture, my values didn’t really fit in with what was happening on the Street. So, in 2008 I got let go.
Andrew: Why did they let you go? Did you steal pencils from the office or something?
Chad: No, those were actually chained up in the office. I didn’t agree with my analyst on the stock calls that were being made and I was doing all the research on the backend. We had a form of disagreement. My wife, my girlfriend at the time who’s now my wife was like, “Hey, Chad, it’s either your job or me.” And thankfully two weeks later, it was my job.
Andrew: “Your job or me,” because of what? Because you were forced to do stuff–
Chad: No, the long working hours.
Andrew: Oh, I see. What kind of working hours did you have?
Chad: 7:00 a.m. until 2:00, 3:00 depending on if my boss was skiing in Aspen or not.
Andrew: Be honest. Now what are your working hours?
Chad: My working hours are 24/7 and it’s nonstop, but it’s working for myself.
Andrew: I see. And the opportunity to work for yourself came when you bought your parents inventory. Why did you have an opportunity to even buy your parents inventory?
Chad: So, I was covering internet stocks on Wall Street, giving research and advice to hedge funds, institutional investors to buy, sell, hold internet stocks–eBay, Amazon, etc. So, when I got laid off, my parents had a failing vacuum store. It was going out of business. I said, “You know what? I’m going to buy your inventory out of bankruptcy and I’m going to list it on the internet.”
Andrew: Why did they go into bankruptcy?
Chad: Well, when was the last time you went into a vacuum store?
Andrew: I see.
Chad: It was a sort of an old legacy model that is not meant for the 21st century. So, dollars are spending on ecommerce and that’s where I thought I should put up their inventory online.
Andrew: The shocking thing is I still see vacuum stores around the city. We’re talking about, I think like Valencia Street, which is a major street in San Francisco has it. I lived in L.A., one of the major streets in L.A. would have this vacuum cleaner store, same thing with D.C. I’m amazed that any of them survive.
Now that you mention it, I can understand why they’d go bankrupt. I thought it had something to do with the way that they had to deal with money growing up. You told our producer that growing up, your parents were living credit card to credit card. There was one time your mom went into the supermarket. Do you remember what our told our producer?
Chad: Yes. I think I said we went to the supermarket and she would take out 20 credit cards and see where there was money on the credit cards. She would swipe. There would be no money. There was a line forming behind here. So, that’s how I grew up.
Andrew: That’s just for buying groceries, which are expensive but not the most expensive thing in the world. Is it because even growing up the vacuum business wasn’t doing well or the way they manage money?
Chad: I think it’s was a combination of both, which is why I think all my friends and family, when I started Crucial, they were shocked. They were like, “Wait a minute. Your parents failed in the vacuum business and you think you’re going to succeed?”
Andrew: Yeah. I would think that same thing too. I get the vacuum part. Tell me a little bit about what your parents’ relationship with money was.
Chad: They had no education. They, like many Americans, were living from credit card to credit card. Money would come in. Money would go out. They would borrow. They would spend. They’d spend. They’d borrow. That was the relationship. So, I think that contributed, I think that was my impetus to me doing my own thing but also I’m constantly looking behind me saying, “How much money do I have in my bank account? Am I comfortable? Am I good.”
Andrew: I get that. All right. So, you leave your job or you’re pushed out of your job. You end up with your parents’ old inventory. It’s time to sell it. How do you sell the first bath of inventory?
Chad: I listed it on Amazon. I had my own ecommerce storefront. I was doing everything. I was listing, selling, listing, selling until I sold it all out.
Andrew: When you were listing it, what did you do different than all the other people who are listing on Amazon.
Chad: I got it at a good price.
Andrew: Because of the bankruptcy. So, you would sell it out a lower price.
Chad: Yeah. I would compete for the buy box, constantly lowering price. I didn’t see the value in competing with others on price, which is why I developed my own brand called Crucial.
Andrew: This is roughly 2009 that we’re talking about when you started, right?
Chad: It incorporated in 2009, yes.
Andrew: Okay. So, were you selling before you incorporated?
Chad: I started in 2009.
Andrew: Okay. Are you intentionally making the distinction? Are you trying to protect yourself by saying you did it before?
Chad: No. I got laid off in January of 2009 and was trying to find myself for a little bit and then finally incorporated in September of 2009.
Andrew: All right. So now, you’re selling this stuff. It’s working for you. You sell out. You’re trying to find more inventory. Where do you go to get more inventory?
Chad: Distributors. Technically the brand would sell to a distributor. The distributor sells to a retail store. The retail store sells to a consumer. That was the typical model that you’d find. Instead, I decided to go to China and go direct to consumer. So, I went to the factories in Asia, sourced it myself, cut out the middle man, going direct.
Andrew: Okay. So, what do you have as an advantage? The thing about the selling on Amazon that always shocks me is that people will actually get in there and try to compete. When I do a search for coffee filter, there are dozens of companies that are going to sell the kind of coffee filter I’m looking for. When you were looking to sell other people’s products, how did you imagine you were going to compete in a world with that many entrants?
Chad: I was just a reseller. I wasn’t adding anymore value. Distributors could play musical chairs with my company.
Andrew: So, it just never would have worked?
Chad: For me. There are a lot of resellers on Amazon today that succeed. It just isn’t the model that I chose to follow.
Andrew: Do you see it working? Why does it work for so many people?
Chad: They have great relationships with their vendors. Maybe you have an exclusive agreement with the vendor. Maybe you protect the vendor, you build listings for the distributor–there are various different things that enable you to succeed as a reseller. I just don’t see any exit strategy in that concept.
Andrew: I don’t’ either. So, it’s actually a good thing that they wouldn’t deal with you and you had to go to China.
Chad: Yeah. So, when I went to replenish–so, when I was buying I bought it, let’s just say for $15 and sold for $20. But now I can go to China and go for $2 and sell it for $20 or even sell it for less and build my own brand. So, I own the supply chain. I own the logistics. I own the brand, the intellectual property behind it.
Andrew: So, you immediately, after you sold out your parents’ inventory went to China and created your own brand?
Chad: Absolutely. That was the first thing I did.
Andrew: How did you get to China and how did you figure out what to do there?
Chad: I did a lot research online. I looked at a lot of competitors on the internet. I looked at where a lot of manufacturers were placed in China and I went to visit them. I setup meetings.
Andrew: You just would walk into their office? I guess you call them up and say, “I’m an American reseller. I’d like to sell your stuff. Can we get together and talk?”
Chad: I did a little bit of that. Some factories are very covert where they don’t really advertise or do any promotion, especially seven years ago. But there’s also Alibaba that exists today that you can use to find and source factories.
Andrew: Okay. And it doesn’t make sense to just work with them remotely, does it?
Chad: Yeah.
Andrew: I mean to not fly. Do you have to fly out there?
Chad: I think there’s a benefit to flying and breaking bread with people that you’re working with. In China, the culture is so different. They really value exchanging business cards with two hands, a nice handshake and having a beautiful dinner in an exclusive restaurant.
Andrew: How was the dinner? I think it might be a little bit difficult to me.
Chad: I eat vegetarian and I love it. Mapo tofu all day.
Andrew: And so you could go out there–I eat vegetarian too. You could go out there and say you’re vegetarian and they’ll accept it and it doesn’t seem like a weird thing?
Chad: Not at all.
Andrew: I can’t do that at my parents’ house. They keep asking my wife who’s a lifelong vegetarian, “But what about chicken?” “Yeah, that’s not good.” “Fish?” “Not good too.” “Chicken?” All right. So, you go. You have your meal with them. Life is starting to come together. You make your first deal. Do you remember the first factory you made a deal with?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: What was it for? What were they going to make for you?
Chad: So, I started off in vacuum bags.
Andrew: Okay.
Chad: And then slowly realized that vacuum filters was really the wave of the future.
Andrew: Why?
Chad: So, every bagless vacuum that you have has two filters in it. People don’t realize it. They say, “I’m not going to have to replace bags. I’m going to save money.” There are two filters in every vacuum.
Andrew: Why do they do that? I also thought–I don’t have a vacuum cleaner. I have one of those neato robots that just goes and does it.
Chad: I’m sorry.
Andrew: Sorry?
Chad: I said I’m sorry.
Andrew: No. I’m glad. I hate vacuuming. Do you vacuum yourself?
Chad: I don’t.
Andrew: Okay. Good for you. Why do you think they do that? Why do they go from bags that were to disposable to, “Hey, it’s bagless so you don’t have to buy anymore,” and then you end up with filters that you need to keep replacing?
Chad: Well, most people don’t know that secret about the filters.
Andrew: I see. So, it’s just about the way that people shop. They don’t know it. So, they end up buying this thing and they don’t realize they’re probably going to have to go to the manufacturer and buy it again. You did and you said, “This is what we’re going to start selling.”
Chad: So, for every Dyson you sell, it has two filters and their filters are really expensive. So, you asked me about my value prop. The value proposition is we cut out the middle man. We give you a cheaper filter at the same or better quality. Typically it’s washable and reusable. Free shipping, free returns.
Andrew: Okay. This is at a time that people hadn’t discovered yet that they could go to China, have these kinds of deals and sell them on Amazon?
Chad: Yeah. It’s not just about Amazon. Amazon is a channel. I don’t consider Amazon a business. A lot of people think that, “Oh, I can open up an Amazon store and that’s a business.” I don’t believe that. So, my business is actually spread across many different channels.
Andrew: But at the time it was Amazon and your own website.
Chad: Amazon and my own website and then I moved into eBay after that and then I moved into every other channel you can name out there today to build a business.
Andrew: What worked for you about getting customers on your own site?
Chad: So, if you go to Amazon, Amazon is like a vending machine approach–Diet Coke, Pepsi, RC Cola. There’s no extra flavor. There’s no one to talk to. On our website, on Crucial, you can see our phone number is right at the top. Free shipping, free returns–there’s no minimum. So, you can buy something for $7 and it’s free shipping.
We also provided videos. Videos index really, really well. I’m sure as you’re aware, this company called Google bought YouTube. So, all of our videos are done to show people how to change their filters. So, we add extra value in the process.
Andrew: Beyond the fact that videos were getting indexed well, what else did you do to get traffic in the early days?
Chad: Well, Google product listing ads weren’t there at the time, but Google text ads were around. What else did we do? Affiliate marketing worked great for us.
Andrew: Really?
Chad: Yeah.
Andrew: How’d you get affiliates for vacuum parts?
Chad: So, I figured out that vacuum parts or filters, yeah, it’s not so sexy, but why do people need vacuum filters. They have vacuum filters because they have allergies or if you’re having a child, you’re really thinking about nesting your house. So, birthing mamas need vacuum filters. So, going after those target segments, which is one step removed from vacuum filters has been extremely helpful.
Andrew: And you personally called them up and made deals with them back then
Chad: No, no. There are still broker affiliate programs out there like ShareASale, Commission Junction, Pepperjam.
Andrew: I see. Okay. All right. So now you’re building a relationship with your manufacturer in China. You’re starting to build up your relationships with customers in the US. And where are you working out of at the time? Where are you doing all this?
Chad: So, I first started on the Upper West Side in New York. And then shortly after I moved to Harlem, East Harlem.
Andrew: Which is actually not bad.
Chad: Yeah. I only got mugged once.
Andrew: Did you?
Chad: Yeah.
Andrew: You know what, actually? I thought everything was going great there, but my cousin came to town and he told me about how he and his sister were living in the same building in Harlem. I still think Harlem is the future of New York. You can’t go further south, right? You’re going into Brooklyn and Brooklyn is already getting developed. You have to go north. But man, he said his neighbor was caught on camera sneaking into–maybe I shouldn’t–sneaking into his sister’s place over and over.
Chad: Got it.
Andrew: So, Harlem is not what I thought it was yet, but it will be.
Chad: It’s gentrifying right now. I was working 21st between 2nd and 3rd and I would leave early in the morning. So, there are a lot of zombies walking around at that time, a lot of strange people at that time. So, that’s the only time it happened. Otherwise it’s a fantastic area.
Andrew: All right. So, what’s the next thing that you did? Did you start looking for other channels for other sites, eBay next and so on?
Chad: So, when I first started Crucial Vacuum, I think I had a very myopic vision. I saw the world in vacuums only, not realizing I would disrupt this space and where do you go next? So, when you’re building a brand, I think my first suggestion to viewers is when you’re building a brand, pick something a little more broad that you can grow into over time.
So, from Crucial Vacuum, I was like, “How do I take something I’m passionate about and mix it in with what I know?” So, I think Crucial Coffee–I’m passionate about coffee–mixed it together with ecommerce to build coffee filters.
Andrew: I see now that you have a lot of coffee filters on Amazon. What was the first product that you created? Or did you start out creating all these different ones? I see you’ve got a reusable stainless steel filter. You’ve got the coffee carafes that go into all the other coffee makers.
Chad: So, I started with the Aeropress filter, a reusable disc filter for a very, I would say, counterculture coffee movement. So, not a lot of people know the Aeropress, but the Aeropress is one of the most popular coffee makers on Amazon.
Andrew: Yeah. It’s got those discs that you have to put in, the little filter discs. You use it. You toss out the coffee. You toss out the coffee beans. You toss out the filter and you start fresh next time. You created that reusable, re-washable filter. I always wonder about businesses that have stuff that sells for–in your case right now it’s selling for $7.74. Even if it costs you a quarter, how many of these do you have to sell for it to really make an impact on your finances?
Chad: Well, my first question is Amazon selling that?
Andrew: I’ve heard you say–no, it’s you selling it on Amazon. It’s sold by Crucial, fulfilled by Amazon.
Chad: Okay. So, Amazon must have run out. But they actually buy that item from us now.
Andrew: Yeah. I heard you say that in a different interview. What’s the distinction? I heard you actually stop another interviewer and say, “It’s not me that’s selling it. It’s Amazon that’s selling it.” Why is that so important to bring out?
Chad: So, Amazon is a $100 billion business, let’s just say, in revenue or getting there. Half their revenue is third-party sellers, $50 billion of it. So, you can sell on Amazon in the marketplace or you can sell to Amazon as a vendor. I think only 5 percent of the selection on Amazon is actually bought by Amazon. So, I do both. I do a mix of selling on Amazon and selling to Amazon.
Andrew: What’s the difference? Is there one that’s better than the other? It seems like selling to Amazon is better.
Chad: I like to do both. I’m a firm believer in selling direct to consumer. So, instead of selling to Amazon at a lower price and having them resell it, I like to actually buy it and sell direct and give Amazon a commission.
Andrew: I see. Do they ship it for you always? Do you always have them fulfill?
Chad: I do fulfillment by Amazon. I do a mix. I do FBM, fulfillment by merchant and fulfillment by Amazon at the same time.
Andrew: How do you decide what’s better to use for each product?
Chad: I do it based on sell through. Also, if I want to move a product, I just read a stat from the MPD group that a quarter of the United States has Prime. So if a quarter of the U.S. has Prime, everyone wants that two-day shipping and if you’re not Prime, then you’re not really relevant on Amazon.
Andrew: If you’re fulfilling it yourself, then you’re not Prime. It’s only if Amazon ships on your behalf or on their behalf that it’s Prime.
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: Okay. So, when would you want to ship it yourself then?
Chad: If I’m doing some kits and bundles, slower moving items. I also sell across many other channels. So, I have that inventory sitting there anyway, I might as well shake what my mama gave me, so sell it through.
Andrew: I see. How did you keep track of all these different sales?
Chad: Skubana. That’s the software.
Andrew: At the time you started Skubana?
Chad: So, before this–okay, so no, I started Skubana two years ago. It’s been two years in the making with cofounder, DJ, which we’ll get to, I’m sure.
Andrew: Yeah.
Chad: So, back then, you had an entry-level solution to run your business. So, there’s a shipping software and then you still don’t have everything else you need to run your business. So I was using a very simple shipping software to run my business, and we were keeping track of our inventory on a Google Drive iPad until it was stolen.
Andrew: Google Drive iPad? So, wait, I guess what you meant is an iPad that used Google Drive and so you probably used a spreadsheet. So, every time a sale came through you would go to your spreadsheet and change the number?
Chad: We would do like weekly counts. We would do weekly counts to find out what our inventory was and we’d constantly oversell inventory.
Andrew: Wow. And when you oversell inventory what happens?
Chad: Well, imagine you have a hot selling item and you sell 200 in a weekend and you have to cancel all those orders and they’re Amazon customers. Amazon doesn’t like that very much. So, Amazon suspends your account for overselling.
Andrew: Wow. Has that happened to you?
Chad: Yes. It has.
Andrew: Yeah, it seems really painful. I can see how you’d want to create software to avoid that. All right. I want to find out a little bit more about why that iPad was stolen and how you built up your business, but a quick thank you to my sponsor, which is HostGator.
HostGator is the site you go to, it’s the company you go to–there’s the gator right there with HostGator on his tail and their URL. This is the company you want to go to when you need hosting for your site.
Let me ask you this, actually, Chad. If I gave you–let’s go back in time. You’re still on Wall Street but you somehow have an hour a day to fuss around on the internet. I give you a HostGator. I give your younger you that HostGator package. What would you host back then? What would you start out with or if you had to start today with nothing but a HostGator, what would you create? What would you launch online?
Chad: I would definitely launch an ecommerce storefront.
Andrew: An ecommerce store. So, you wouldn’t do a content site. You wouldn’t create a blog. You’d just go straight to a store. What would you sell?
Chad: I’d go to what I know. I’d go after what I’m passionate about.
Andrew: Okay. So, what are you passionate about that you’re not selling yet?
Chad: I love CrossFit.
Andrew: What is it? CrossFit?
Chad: CrossFit. Yes.
Andrew: Okay.
Chad: So, CrossFit clothing is really expensive. So, I look around and think to myself, “What are things that are unnecessary or do need to be that way?” Why do Lululemon yoga pants have to cost $120? So, I like to disrupt markets that I know about where I see that there’s room for disruption. I think that’s one of them.
Andrew: Well, you can actually do both of those. You can create a website on HostGator that will offer cheaper yoga pants. You could create a website–not just you, I know you’ve got your own business, Chad–but whoever’s listening to me can go to HostGator, sign up for an account and create a whole website for CrossFit products.
And because it’s HostGator, they’ll let you host your stuff using whatever software you want. So, they’ll even give you free shopping cart software or if you want to install WordPress they make it really easy for you to install WordPress and then you could use WooCommerce to sell and get up and running fast.
And if you’re not happy with it, within 45 days, they’ll give you your money back. But frankly, in those 45 days you’re going to find out that they give you unmetered disc space, unmetered bandwidth, all the email addresses you want for customer support, for your own personal one, maybe one for a fake sales person that you haven’t hired yet, just call it Steve@ whatever your domain is. They give you unlimited email addresses so you can act bigger than you are if you need to. And they give you 24/7, 365 tech support.
If you want to bring traffic over to your site, they will even throw in a $100 AdWords offer and a $100 from Yahoo and Bing. I’m telling you, they make it really easy and really inexpensive for only–actually, 30 percent off if you go to HostGator.com/Mixergy. So, the packages start at only, well, under $5, under $5 a month. I keep seeing this and thinking, “Is that right?” It is right.
Go to HostGator.com/Mixergy. If you’re not thrilled with it, they’ll give you your money back within 45 days. And if you have a site right now and you don’t like your host and you don’t like that they’re not around by phone and you don’t like how their uptime stinks, HostGator will make it easy for you to migrate your site over to them– HostGator.com/Mixergy.
The iPad, Chad, where did it go?
Chad: I’m not sure. I’ve rolled back the cameras countless times and I could not figure out where it went.
Andrew: You have a sense of who took it though.
Chad: Oh yeah. I had a massive warehouse. After Harlem, I grew out of Harlem and moved to a warehouse space in Little Ferry, New Jersey. And I ran a team of around 15 warehouse employees at the time. A warehouse employee took the iPad.
Andrew: Why?
Chad: I also didn’t have the tracker on the iPad.
Andrew: Why?
Chad: Because when you’re running a pick and pack operation and there are very few people in the metro area that want to pick and pack as a career, you have to hire certain people that you wouldn’t hire normally.
Andrew: Can I say what I heard?
Chad: Sure.
Andrew: I heard that you let go of a manager. The manager took the iPad you suspect, allegedly, etc. Also, this manager took a key for the forklift and stole some safety mechanism and called OSHA all because you let go of him.
Chad: That is correct.
Andrew: That is correct.
Chad: Yeah. There was collusion that was happening and things started to erupt running a warehouse.
Andrew: What kind of collusion?
Chad: Warehouse employees would collude. They would befriend a warehouse manager. They’d go have drinks after work. Then they would start to–these are how unions are formed. So, they would start to unionize together.
Andrew: I see. They were unionizing together and you said, “Hey, this is not right.” And you let go of someone?
Chad: No, not at all. I let go of someone because of other reasons, performance reasons and things started to unravel because they were friends and it was–
Andrew: I see. So, it’s not necessarily this person took it on the way out, but because they were close friends, you think maybe someone else took it.
Chad: I don’t know.
Andrew: Man, dealing with warehouses has got to be a pain in the butt, no?
Chad: It’s crazy.
Andrew: By this point, were you still keeping track of everything in that warehouse on that iPad with Google Docs on it?
Chad: So, once they stole the iPad and OSHA came in, they seized operation. They froze everything and the only people that could pick and pack were myself and my wife. So, we started picking and packing ourselves, getting orders out. My wife is like, “Chad, it’s time to make a change.” I was also overweight. I was pre-diabetic. The next change I made was I outsourced my warehouse.
Andrew: How do you find someone to outsource your warehouse to?
Chad: There’s a concept called a third party logistics, 3PL. A lot of startups us them today. I started doing research finding 3PLs that could accommodate my type of business.
Andrew: It’s called–let me do a quick search to see–3PL…
Chad: 3PL.
Andrew: Third-party logistics.
Chad: So, Bonobos uses it. A lot of startups that want to focus on their core competency will outsource the pick and pack operation because it’s not part of what we’re good at.
Andrew: So, your stuff gets shipped directly to them and they ship it to your customers or to Amazon or whoever else needs to get it.
Chad: Absolutely. Yes.
Andrew: Oh, that seems like a lifesaver.
Chad: Amazing. It changed my life.
Andrew: Yeah. Now you don’t need to deal with everyone who’s trying to form a union or take your iPad or just kind of hangout when they should be working. You get to focus on building your business.
Chad: It takes it from managing employees to being a customer, which is a far different relationship.
Andrew: Does it also make it easier to keep track of inventory? It still blows my mind that you were using an iPad with a doc on it to keep track of how much you had and that you had to keep counting.
Chad: Even though 3PL has the inventory, so you still need to communicate it to the marketplaces. So, Amazon, eBay, your own storefront, whether it’s Bigcommerce or Magento or Shopify–you need to communicate those inventory numbers. So, there’s still a missing link. But the first step to automation for me was outsourcing the pick and pack operation. I kind of emancipated myself.
Andrew: Your site is built using Magento, the open source software, right?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: Before that you were on some other platform? What was it? You were kicked out.
Chad: Volusion.
Andrew: Volusion. What did you think of Volusion?
Chad: They were running out of cash and I was one of the early customers, I believe, for them. They kicked me off their platform saying there was a DDoS attack.
Andrew: A DDoS attack?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: But it wasn’t. It wasn’t a denial of service attack. It was that they couldn’t keep up with all your traffic.
Chad: They said it was a DDoS attack. So, imagine, overnight my shopping card–overnight I was actually going on vacation and I got an email saying, “Hey, we’re terminating your account. Because of the terms of service, you can no longer have a shopping cart.” So, I was freaking out. So, I didn’t go to a hosted platform. I decided to go to hosting my own platform on Magento. So, I would host it myself and then did all the custom development to make it happen.
Andrew: You know what? I really like Roy and the team that built Magento and I’ve had them on Mixergy at least once. But it doesn’t seem like software that you can easily setup and get going with, especially if you’re not a developer and don’t have tech experience. How did you get it up and running so fast?
Chad: It took three months. There are a lot of corners that were cut. Three months is actually a long time.
Andrew: It is.
Chad: You can get running in seconds now using other technologies.
Andrew: How do you keep selling in the meantime or did you?
Chad: Luckily I had other marketplaces I was selling on–so, Amazon, eBay, Newegg, Rakuten, etc.
Andrew: Got it. Okay. And then Amazon actually throws you a curve ball and says, “Sorry, we can’t keep running you because…”
Chad: Well, Amazon I got kicked off because I oversold inventory, but that wasn’t at the same time. so, I luckily had Crucial come back online. Shortly after that, I oversold inventory. “WTF, what do I do when Amazon is a significant amount of our revenue?”
Andrew: Yeah.
Chad: And I started to start building a software because I couldn’t find anything to support my business and that’s Skubana.
Andrew: And that’s when you started building it. Did you build it internally for yourself first?
Chad: No. I initially built–I said, “Every seller needs to have access to this software.” We started building with that in mind.
Andrew: I see. How much revenue did you get to before you started building it?
Chad: Skubana was in the process for two years. I must have been at $5 million at that point.
Andrew: Why did you submit yourself to Inc. Magazine?
Chad: Inc. Magazine, it’s a nice feather in my cap. It’s a nice place to know and recognize our accomplishments of myself and our team.
Andrew: It’s amazing. I do so much research to try to figure out how much a guest has. I ask them and sometimes they say no and they don’t want to talk about revenue. But for Inc., people will send audited financials. In fact, companies that sometimes don’t audit their financials will audit their financials just to get to Inc., right? They asked you for audited numbers, didn’t they?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: So, has anything good come with being in Inc. Magazine?
Chad: I feel good on the inside.
Andrew: Okay. It does add some credibility.
Chad: Sure.
Andrew: You guys do a lot of A/B testing on your site. Did you put it on your site at all and see if it increased sales or anything?
Chad: Is it at the bottom?
Andrew: It’s not when I saw it most recently. But you have other logos on the bottom.
Chad: Yes. I actually haven’t even though to put Inc. on our site. It’s really for internal purposes only and I think it recognizes our accomplishments.
Andrew: It was all bootstrapped?
Chad: Crucial has been completely bootstrapped. As you know, I think I mentioned this earlier, I build crucial because I always thought about an exit in mind. That’s also helpful to have your accomplishments be recognized and have others see it.
Andrew: I see. Let’s talk about how you also automated it to give you space to focus on software. What did you do t put this thing on autopilot?
Chad: So, the first thing I did was outsource the warehouse, the pick and pack operation, which freed up a tremendous amount of my time. The next step was we were doing a lot of repetitive tasks manually and required a big team to do it. So, imagine you’re selling on Amazon and you need to export all your orders. You need to import into the 3PL. You have to do this for every channel, export, import it back in. It gets messy.
So, I sent an email out to a bunch of friends. I went to UMass Amherst. I sent an email out to a bunch of friends and I said, “Guys, does anybody know an enterprise-grade developer that can build this with me?” And I was introduced to DJ, who’s the cofounder of Skubana.
He came to my warehouse before I exited the warehouse and he said, “Chad, your warehouse is crazy. Are you sure there’s nothing out there that exists that can do this? This seems like a no-brainer.” I said, “There’s been nothing. Nothing outside of something that takes a percentage of revenue.” So, we started building tow years ago.
Andrew: And beyond the software, was there anything internally that you had to do to automate or to help systemize your business?
Chad: So, in terms of Crucial, I have an amazing team in place. I’ve also read a lot of good books about automation and trying to setup operational procedures in place.
Andrew: What’s a good one on that?
Chad: “Virtual Freedom,” Chris Ducker. Have you read it?
Andrew: Yes. I think I did it in preparation for an interview with him or maybe it was just for a conversation with him. What else?
Chad: Let’s see… I read a lot of books along the way that have helped–Tim Ferriss, “4-Hour Workweek,” of course, Tony Hsieh, “Delivering Happiness.”
Andrew: But he doesn’t talk so much about automation, right?
Chad: He talks about customer success. I think the biggest impact for automation, if you’re just talking about books on automation, I think it would be Chris Ducker’s book which outlines and asks you what are some repetitive tasks that you have in your life today that you shouldn’t be doing or that you don’t like to do.
Andrew: What are some that you didn’t want to do?
Chad: I didn’t want to have a staff exporting orders and importing them back in. So, we’ve streamline a lot of these processes. And then on top of that, I’ve hired an amazing team to focus on high-value operations.
Andrew: Like?
Chad: Building listings. We spent a lot of time–so, if you can automate the back office, get the kitchen lined up, get the dishwasher working, you just have to work on the front of the house, making sure the tables are clean, the windows are nice and clean.
Andrew: You mean the listings that I see on Amazon are clear, that they don’t look like some of these junkie listings that when I look at your website I don’t see an out of date copyright on the bottom. Man, that happens so much, even with people who I interview who have got successful business, but you guys don’t. It’s that kind of stuff.
Chad: Yes, absolutely.
Andrew: Sorry?
Chad: Go ahead.
Andrew: What about hiring someone? You guys are big on YouTube as you mentioned earlier. How do you create a team that knows what to post on YouTube that will then lead to sales?
Chad: I give a lot of autonomy to our employees and sort of creative inspiration and let them flow with it. So, you see our YouTube videos. We have a pretty big presence on YouTube with videos. We just have fun with it. There are a lot of goofy things that we do on YouTube.
Andrew: But there are no metrics. There’s no process. There’s no system. There are no documents that show how to do this.
Chad: We take our bestselling items and then start building videos around it. If customers call up with questions around things, we build videos out and post them online.
Andrew: It looks like you guys have been doing this for four years, but from what I can see, there hasn’t been one in like ten months.
Chad: Yeah. We’re very, very focused on Skubana. There’s a lot of cross-pollination between the businesses. But one thing I want to mention about listings, just while we’re on the topic, is that a lot of people think you can just spray and pray, just throw gum up on a wall to see what sticks. So, they’ll use software that takes a percentage of revenue. They’ll lock you into a contract, which is probably one of the biggest mistakes you can make in ecommerce.
So, we focus on building high value content on Amazon and off Amazon because by the way, Google does not like duplicate content. So, how can you just take one content base and just spray and pray it to every marketplace.
Andrew: You can’t just put pretty much the same thing on Amazon as you put on your own site and eBay?
Chad: Yeah.
Andrew: The fact that it’s on Amazon doesn’t tell Google that it’s different and that it’s okay?
Chad: No because you’re getting the same content on Amazon and Google.
Andrew: I didn’t realize that was an issue.
Chad: Yeah.
Andrew: All right. Let’s take a quick message break and then we’ll come back. Message equals sponsorship. This is for Toptal. If you need a developer, I’m talking about the top three percent developers who are out there–you’ve heard me talk to other entrepreneurs on Mixergy. You’ve heard me talk to them about Toptal. You know what they said. They go to Toptal. In fact, I was just talking to Brian Wong. I said, “Do you know Toptal?” He said, “Not only do I know them, I’ve used them,” Brian Wong from Kiip.
So, if you need a developer who’s one of the best in the business, the place to go is Toptal. They are a network of developers. These guys have screened the developers in their network. They have tested them. They have made sure that they are the best and now when you need to hire a developer, you go to them, you tell them what you’re looking for and Toptal will find you the perfect match based on how much time you want to spend with that developer–is it full-time? Is it part-time? Maybe it’s just a few hours a week based on what you’re working, based on how you like to work and so on.
Toptal.com–in fact, if you got to Toptal.com/Mixergy, if you’ve listened to me you probably know the offer. You know they’re going to give you 80 free developer hours if you pay for 80 and a no risk trial period, Toptal.com/Mixergy. Chad, do you have a team of developers now?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: If you had 80 free hours of developer time from Toptal, would you have something for that developer to do?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: What would that developer do? What else could you use right now?
Chad: Well, we do all the development in house in New York City.
Andrew: You mean all in the same office?
Chad: Yes. We have an Agile development process and we typically don’t outsource that.
Andrew: And you wouldn’t bring in somebody who was working for Toptal but on your team?
Chad: I would have to talk to DJ about that, the CTO.
Andrew: I see.
Chad: But we have a very firm process of collaboration all in the same space so we can move really, really quick.
Andrew: Here’s one thing I’ve found. There are some people who need to have team members all in the same office, all working together and that’s the only way they hire and it takes them a long time to hire but they suddenly have this crucial issue that needs attention fast so that they can get up and running with a project in the time that they need to. They go to Toptal. Toptal brings in developers who work with the team like they’re in the office, but they’re definitely not in the office, collaborate, communicate.
The developer handles a big project for you and then if you don’t need them anymore, they can walk away, if they do, they can continue to work with you in the future. Toptal.com–they are incredible and frankly, if you want an introduction, just email me. I’ll introduce you to my guy over at Toptal. It’s just Andrew@Mixergy.com. But they’re offering such a great deal.
All you have to do is go to Toptal.com/Mixergy. And you can see why Andreessen Horowitz–maybe they are the best investors right now, the most recognized, the most admired right now for sure–Andreessen Horowitz backed these guys because of the quality of their work. Phenomenal company. And I’m grateful for Toptal for sponsoring.
You and DJ–you say he’s a cofounder. What’s your ownership split?
Chad: We’re 50/50.
Andrew: 50/50? And you bring in the initial funding, right? You bring in the expertise and he brings in the development work?
Chad: Yeah. That’s a good breakdown. So, he does all the development work. I do all the business side and have funded this business.
Andrew: How did you make sure that what you needed was something that wasn’t unique to you. In fact, the reason you’re on here, Chad, is because you are unique. There aren’t a lot of sellers who are doing what you do. How did you know that what you’re building into Skubana is needed by other people?
Chad: Yeah. That’s a great question. So, obviously we had a friction point. We had a pain point. DJ didn’t believe it at first. He did the research. We went to the internet retailer conference in Chicago two years ago with a 20 percent done product. So, I funded the trip. We got a booth, literally next to NetSuite, across from ChannelAdvisor. We validated the idea right there and then. We signed up 80 beta customers which validated the idea.
Andrew: 80 paying beta customers?
Chad: 80 beta customers that were like, “Hey, I want this platform yesterday.”
Andrew: Okay. What did they say that helped you shape the product?
Chad: They said, “Lean on me for support. I’ll give you feedback as long as you give me a good deal.”
Andrew: Okay. Just to clarify, they weren’t paid customers, but they were willing to suffer through a beta and give you feedback and help make the software better, right?
Chad: We had paying beta customers at the onset.
Andrew: So, out of the 80, how many ended up paying and using your software?
Chad: At Skubana, I think we started with about 20 paying beta customers to start.
Andrew: And that came from this conference that you talked about?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: It did? Really?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: Okay. How much were you charging them?
Chad: So, our pricing model is a usage-based model. You pay for what you use when you use it. We gave them a paper contract. We knew what their order volumes were and we validated our pricing that way.
Andrew: Interesting. So, you sold it before you fully built it. How long did it take you after you sold it to complete the other 80 percent that you needed to?
Chad: So, in hindsight, we were 20 percent done, but we didn’t know that the scope of this project was going to be so large at the time. So, we started with 20 but we were doing shipping labels and inventory management. We didn’t have automated purchase orders, analytics, accounting integrations, repository–we didn’t have any of this at the time. So, we sold them on a vision. They also trusted the fact that I was a big seller. I go on talks like these and divulge everything about my business to help others succeed in business.
Andrew: I see. So, they said, “If this guy needs it, if this guy’s done so well, we want to be like him or we want to learn from his experience.”
Chad: I think that was a good start, but I also think that they didn’t have any inventory management for them. They were using all these fragmented software to piece them together–spreadsheets, Google Drive on an iPad.
Andrew: Why do so much for a first version? It seems like inventory management across all these different channels might be enough. Why do all the other things including purchase orders into your first version of the software?
Chad: That’s a fantastic question. So, when DJ was first doing the requirements analysis on this, we were just supposed to be an inventory counting software. We were going to call ourselves Abacus. And with further research and having a scotch, he was like, “Chad, we’re not solving the entire problem. The problem is all these ecommerce sellers like yourself have to use all these unbundled, fragmented software to run their business and it’s unnecessary. So, why don’t we be the first ERP that puts it tighter all under one roof for the first time.
Andrew: I see.
Chad: And I said yes.
Andrew: What’s an ERP?
Chad: It’s an operational software to run your business.
Andrew: Okay. Enterprise resource planning?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: That’s it? That’s what the software is called?
Chad: That’s what it’s called, but the thing is most ERPs are built before there is the E in commerce, ecommerce. In today’s day in and age, to make money online, you need to have an ERP, an operational software plus a shipping software. So, we combined the two together.
Andrew: You know, I was thinking before we started how many people in my audience even need such a big piece of software. I imagine that most–I don’t imagine. Actually, I don’t know for sure. But it seems like most people are fine on selling just on their own site and one other place like Etsy or Amazon. How many people are there who need to sell on all these different platforms?
Chad: So, even if you’re selling on two platforms, you need to manage your inventory. Our price point is unheard of. To pay to play it’s $99 a month. We have customers all day long that are paying $99.95, although our software is built to scale for the biggest customers.
Andrew: So, do you have a sense of how big this market is?
Chad: It’s massive. If Amazon is on track for $100 billion like I said, 50 percent of their revenues are third party sellers. That’s $50 billion. There are roughly 2 million Amazon sellers out there today. That’s just a piece of our target market.
Andrew: How many of them have you gotten so far?
Chad: A lot.
Andrew: Can you talk about the customer size yet?
Chad: We can talk about the customer size. I just can’t talk about how many customers we have on the platform just yet.
Andrew: Can you say how much revenue you guys are doing?
Chad: Not just yet.
Andrew: I know that one of the things you want to do is become a millionaire by the time you were 30, right?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: Skubana, has it done $1 million in sales yet?
Chad: Not yet. We just launched at the end of June fiscally.
Andrew: Oh, I see. So, the company has been around for a year and a half or so, but June 2015 is when you launched it.
Chad: DJ started building two years ago. He was working his 9:00 to 5:00 and then after 5:00 he would work from 5:00 to 3:00 a.m. and was doing that to build the prototype.
Andrew: You started raising money for it?
Chad: Once we validated at the IRCE, right away we started raising capital.
Andrew: What’s worked for you for getting new customers?
Chad: Interviews like this.
Andrew: Really?
Chad: Yeah. When I talk about how I’ve succeeded with Crucial, I obviously talk about the software that’s been it happen, Skubana. So, interviews like this work. I use a lot of guerilla marketing. Reddit has been a great driver of traffic for us. We did an AMA that was like number one for a week straight on Reddit.
Andrew: Okay.
Chad: We have a meetup group called Amazon Sellers Unite.
Andrew: That makes sense. I was wondering how do you get a meetup group of a new piece of software. You don’t. You get it for the customers who are going to need the software. Those customers are Amazon resellers.
Chad: Exactly.
Andrew: Okay. You said you did some guerilla marketing. What kind of guerilla marketing?
Chad: The guerilla marketing would be Reddit. It’s free. Any way you can drive free traffic to your site, that’s what we do. I spoke at the Internet Retailer Conference to 1,000 people. I speak at other conferences. I have another one coming up called Prosper, which is an Amazon-focused conference.
Andrew: I see. Hacker News, there was a post there. Shopify is sending you some traffic, right? I guess because of the integration with them.
Chad: Oh, you’re good. Yeah.
Andrew: Warrior Forum. StartupBrothers.com–what were you doing one StartupBrothers?
Chad: I did a webinar.
Andrew: I see. You sell through webinars?
Chad: That’s one way we drive traffic. I elevate myself with the success we’ve had and parlay that into Inc. with Skubana.
Andrew: I see. And eCommerceFuel, that’s a forum. You guys are paid customers there, I guess, and you’re helping people out?
Chad: Actually, I’m not allowed to be in that forum because I’m a software provider.
Andrew: Oh, really? As soon as you became a software provider you were asked not to join?
Chad: I tried to join while I was a software provider and they said, “Uh-uh.”
Andrew: Interesting. I’m trying to see what else you guys are doing. I don’t see much else. I see Heinrich–I don’t know what that is. That’s a blog.
Chad: He’s a blogger. He’s a very, very good blogger, actually, very into the international ecommerce scene.
Andrew: I don’t know him.
Chad: So, we do that. So, that’s just free. And we do paid advertisements.
Andrew: What kind of paid has worked for you?
Chad: We’ve done PPC. We still do PPC. We do AdRoll.
Andrew: I think I saw that you guys are also using retargeting, right?
Chad: Yeah, that’s AdRoll.
Andrew: I saw a different company. What is it called? Adrenalads? Adrenalds.com–I saw that was sending you guys some traffic. Maybe they’re partnered with someone else. “You’ll find traffic more cost effective compared to Google, Yahoo, Bing or third-party to your network.” I don’t know. I saw that when I was trying to figure out where your traffic was coming from.
But you know what? I also interrupted myself. I asked you a question about funding. And then I interrupted you and went on to, “What are you doing to get customers?” So, let me bring it back to what you were starting to say. How’s that working for you?
Chad: So, once we validated the product, I made a list of the top ten people I wanted to get involved. One of those you’ve already mentioned, Roy Rubin from Magento. I had a list of nine others. So, I started reaching out to those ten people. Luckily, I had one of those people respond and believed in our product, put us through a lot to understand the product through his operational network but eventually invested.
Andrew: Who’s this person?
Chad: This is Brian Lee. He was the founder of Legalzoom, Honest Company, Shoedazzle. So, his venture firm invested in us in the angel round.
Andrew: I see. Anyone else in the angel round?
Chad: Yeah. We had James Thompson. He’s an ex-Amazon executive. He came in as an investor and we had a lot of friends and family come in as well.
Andrew: Who’s the one who’s closest to you?
Chad: My father in law.
Andrew: Really? Does that feel a little bit tough that your father in law is in it?
Chad: He’s fantastic. He’s been a business coach guiding me through this whole rollercoaster.
Andrew: Really? What’s his background?
Chad: He’s a psychologist.
Andrew: I see. What kind of advice does he give you?
Chad: Everything. He comes into our office and talks to our employees. He hangs out. We talk about cash flow. We talk about investment. We talk about traction. You name it, we talk about it. We talk about relaxation and meditation.
Andrew: That’s a good guy to have. Do you have peers also who help you out? Are you part of EO or some other organization?
Chad: I’m not in any other organization.
Andrew: Okay. So, it’s you, your father in law, your wife, DJ, that’s your network for support.
Chad: Yes. Being an entrepreneur is actually a lonely place. We really put our head down and focus on building a business, not realizing there’s a whole outer world to connect with.
Andrew: I kind of feel like you weren’t in this outer world of tech people for a long time, like the fact that you didn’t know Roy Rubin before you were raising money tells me something. The fact that you’re not on CrunchBase, for example, tells me something. You were probably really minding your business for a long time and now you’ve got to come out and talk to people who were outside your immediate network. Am I right about that?
Chad: Absolutely.
Andrew: Even like AngelList. They did report your seed round $750,000. That’s accurate, right?
Chad: We actually raised $880,000, $780,000.
Andrew: Both they and CrunchBase just don’t have that much information.
Chad: Look, we’re growing well above investors’ expectations. This past month we grew 38 percent month over month. This is a very solid model that we’re following and we’re doing it in a very scrappy way.
Andrew: Are you going to sell crucial sometime soon?
Chad: I’m entertaining offers all the time.
Andrew: Are you? You get offers a lot?
Chad: Yes.
Andrew: But you haven’t hired a company to look for offers for you?
Chad: No. I just read a really interesting article in Inc. Magazine that talked about why you shouldn’t sell your business.
Andrew: Why?
Chad: It was fascinating.
Andrew: Why? What did you take from it?
Chad: Just the net income, the kind of growth trajectory, the way we’re growing Crucial with the team that we have in place, in the long-term I think there’s more wealth to be accumulated still running this revenue-generating ecommerce business.
Andrew: And you’re about to launch a new version of Crucial, right? Crucial Everything?
Chad: It’s called Think Crucial. I would say it’s our fourth and final brand. So, anything you can think of that’s replaceable that you can think of, we’ll sell it.
Andrew: Are you still going to China to buy stuff?
Chad: Yeah. I don’t go exclusively to China, but it turns out China has an amazing ecosystem to buy from.
Andrew: So, you’re the guy that still will travel to China or do you have someone else who’s doing it.
Chad: I go to China once a year but now I’m sending other people. I haven’t gone this year yet.
Andrew: I’m checking to see if ThinkCrucial.com has been bought yet.
Chad: Yeah. It’s bought.
Andrew: It’s bought? You guys own it?
Chad: Of course.
Andrew: I said, “There’s nothing on it. Do I need to give him a head’s up or something?”
Chad: That’s the first thing I do. The interesting thing is we move into–we’re going to where the puck is going, not to where the puck is like Wayne Gretzky said. So, while a lot of people are moving into this commoditized vacuum space, we’re moving into the pool filter space. We’re moving into grow room lights that capitalize on people growing cannabis in homes these days. So, we’re going to a different market.
Andrew: It’s the same thing, the same process that helped you build vacuum accessories that’s going to allow you to do that, to sell these growing tools?
Chad: We are replicating our success across every market that we can disrupt. The same way I’ve disrupted the vacuum space or air or coffee or cannabis is the same way we’re going to disrupt the software space.
Andrew: I like how you keep using the word disrupt now instead of underprice or come up with a generic–disrupt does sound much more technical and cutting edge.
Chad: Okay. I never thought about that.
Andrew: Really? You seem like a pretty thought out person.
Chad: I think I have a very disruptive nature to myself. I’ve always considered myself a renegade. I cling to the disruption.
Andrew: All right. You’ve earned it. What’s the proudest part of having done all this. What’s the part you look back on and say, “I did it. I’m really proud of this?”
Chad: Right now I’m talking to you from my–I have a beautiful office that we built in Jersey. I have an amazing team. We enjoy what we do every single day.
Andrew: Can you turn the camera around and show us the office? I wasn’t sure where you were today. You’re on a laptop?
Chad: Yes. I’ll just pick it up.
Andrew: Let’s have a look. If we lose you, I will make sure to give everyone the URL.
Chad: So, right now we’re in the dojo. But this is our one space that we built for ecommerce and also host our entire onboarding team, account management.
Andrew: What does onboarding team mean? Our team asked you if you could teach entrepreneurs one thing, what would it be? And you said, “Onboarding team something,” I’m looking for it in my notes. What does that mean?
Chad: Did I say that? I don’t know.
Andrew: Let me see… I can do a quick search here. “I can speak about building onboarding team.” What does that mean.
Chad: I don’t remember saying that. So, an onboarding team is somebody who helps get people onto our software. So, we have a very thought out process for taking people through various milestones that can be completely on our software.
Andrew: I see. So, if someone signs up, they don’t just get to figure out the software on their own. There’s somebody on their team who onboards them and helps them understand how to use it and gets them started with it.
Chad: If they need help, yes, but we are rolling out a wizard which will make Skubana self-service.
Andrew: Interesting. We actually recently went the other direction where someone on the team said to our developer, “Can you please give me a list of all the people who signed up this last month or this last week and didn’t actually use the site?” So, he coded something up and now she started emailing people saying, “I see you didn’t get on the site. What’s going on? Is there an issue?” And man, they freaking loved it, that little bit of personal contact. I’m thinking we should do that every time.
Chad: Yeah. I do a lot of personal contact for being a CEO. I called a couple customers last night, asked them how they were doing. If they said they were doing great–all of them did, by the way–I asked them to leave a review.
Andrew: Ah, review where?
Chad: Anywhere on the internet they can.
Andrew: Oh, this is not Skubana customers–
Chad: Yes. Skubana customers, yes.
Andrew: So, where would a Skubana leave a review?
Chad: Go to WebRetailer.com.
Andrew: Ah, I saw you were getting a bunch of traffic form Web Retailer.
Chad: We just got some reviews–I don’t think they’ve been published yet–on Capterra.
Andrew: Okay.
Chad: Shopify. People are leaving us reviews on Shopify.
Andrew: I see. Makes sense. All right. Congratulations on your success. I do actually see all these positive reviews on different sites.
Chad: Nice.
Andrew: I don’t see anything yet on Capterra. Maybe somebody can jump on that. I think you said that one is coming soon.
Chad: They’re pending. Yes.
Andrew: But I do see on Web Retailer and that explains why you’re getting so much traffic from them. There’s also a lot of discussion about you guys on Web Retailer and with you guys. Well, cool. The website is Skubana.com–what does SKU stand for? I always forget.
Chad: Stock keeping units.
Andrew: Stock keeping units. That’s where the SKU in Skubana comes from–Skubana.com. Cool. And if you guys want to sign up for a hosting company, don’t forget, it’s HostGator.com. If you need a developer, go to Toptal.com. In fact, go to HostGator.com/Mixergy, Toptal.com/Mixergy. And if you like this interview, please rate me on iTunes. That’s all I care about these days. Go to Mixergy.com/podcast. It will automatically take you to iTunes. Throw in a rating. It will really help us out and it will help other people discover the podcast.
Thanks, Chad.
Chad: Thank you, Andrew. Thanks for having me.
Andrew: Thank you all for being a part of Mixergy. Bye, everyone.
