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Here’s your program.
Andrew Warner: Hey, everyone, my name is Andrew Warner. I’m the founder of Mixergy.com, home of the ambitious upstart and the place where I interview entrepreneurs about how they built their businesses.
Today’s guest is a little bit different from the usual Mixergy interviewee. Joining me is a social entrepreneur who runs a non-profit. Jean-Daniel Muller is the co-founder of Siel Bleu, which was built on the belief that physical activity would improve the quality of life of those age 75 and above. His ideas met with a lot of resistance at first, but over a decade later the organization today is thriving. I invited him here to find about why he decided to go into a non-profit instead of a for-profit business and to find out about how a non-profit grows, how it attracts people, and how it keeps influencing its contingencies.
So, Jean-Daniel, welcome to Mixergy.
Jean-Daniel: [inaudible]
Andrew: Good to see you. And you are . . . actually, where in the world are you?
Jean-Daniel: Sorry?
Andrew: What country are you in right now?
Jean-Daniel: So, now we are in France. We are in Belgium, too. In Ireland and in Spain in the next month.
Andrew: Okay. And you are a French entrepreneur? You started in France?
Jean-Daniel: Yes, we started in France in [inaudible] with my co-founder, with Jean-Michel Ricard. We were both students and we start 13 years before.
Andrew: Right. 1997 was when you launched.
Jean-Daniel: Right. Yeah.
Andrew: How many people are you coaching every week?
Jean-Daniel: 60,000 people–old people we are coaching every week.
Andrew: Okay.
Jean-Daniel: In fact, in more than 2,000 nursing homes and in their homes, too.
Andrew: Okay. And what size revenues do you have?
Jean-Daniel: 8 million. That’s it.
Andrew: 8 million Euro, which is about $11 million.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah. That’s it.
Andrew: Where does the revenue come from?
Jean-Daniel: There is income first from the nursing home that pay for the services. And there is income from the old people who can pay for the service, who have the money. And the remaining income is from insurance company, too, because there are a lot of insurance companies that think that it’s more interesting for them to pay for prevention than pay for when the person has a problem.
Andrew: Right.
Jean-Daniel: And there are more and more old people, so it’s a solution to make more prevention.
Andrew: And do you own the homes yourself or do your people work at other homes?
Jean-Daniel: I’m sorry, I don’t understand the question.
Andrew: Do you own the facilities yourself?
Jean-Daniel: We do the exercise and all the things in the nursing home. We have for that 215 salaries, [works] in [all] France.
Andrew: Why does it matter that people get to exercise? I mean, why is this such an important cause that older people get to exercise, that you decide, “I gotta build an organization around this?”
Jean-Daniel: Because, when we started it was not the goal to be so big. We think, with my friend, that we can do something for old people, because there was nothing in France at that time. So, we just start with an experience in 12 nursing homes, and we have the help from [inaudible]. We said, “I will pay for six months to have your activity in the nursing home, and then after the six months the nursing home must pay,” when we’ll continue or they will stop [inaudible]. The first time they said, “Okay, it will be great. We have funds for just six months and then we don’t need you.” And then after the 6 months, 11 of the 12 said, “We can’t do without you. It’s very incredible what you bring to the person physically, socially, and it’s very incredible.” [inaudible].
Andrew: Before you even took the . . . I’m sorry to interrupt, but before you even took the idea to the nursing homes, why did you say “This has to happen in the world. We need to get older people to exercise.”? Why is that so important?
Jean-Daniel: The idea was not clear the first time. It was that Jean-Michel and I [inaudible] were both students to be sport teachers in school. But he had a bad experience in school and said, “Okay, that’s not for me.” And for me it was another [event]. My wife was pregnant, and in France when you are a sport teacher, you must go in another town. And I say, “I can’t.” So, we must find an idea. And the idea was, “Okay, why not work with old people?” That’s why. What was very important was the experience [we had with them], because with the first 12 nursing homes it was so incredible for us that we said, “We must work with these persons. It’s so fantastic for us and for them.” It was just after we knew that it was a good idea for everybody, for old people in France and in other countries, but not the first time.
Andrew: I see. So, you just did this because you wanted to stay in the area with your wife, if I understand you right?
Jean-Daniel: Yes. [inaudible]
Andrew: I see, and then you do it once. I’m sorry?
Jean-Daniel: First was that I didn’t want to go, so I must find an idea.
Andrew: All right. So, what was it about the first experience that made you say, “I love this so much. I need to spend the next 10, 12 years doing it?”
Jean-Daniel: Oh, when you come in a nursing home and you see old people so happy to see you, and you see the results that some people can walk better, and the all the quality of life in the nursing home was better. The director of the nursing home said, “When you are coming, the life is coming [to] the nursing home. For example, the haircutter has work when you are coming because the ladies want to be good for you.”
Andrew: She wants to look pretty because you’re coming in to help out, and so she’s having her hair done.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: Okay.
Jean-Daniel: So, it’s a lot of life in the nursing home. It’s not just physical activity but it’s bringing another story, we say, that’s very important for us. The last nursing home didn’t want us before the experience. The director called us two days after and said, “I have a strike in the nursing home, and I have some persons in wheelchairs before my door. And they say, ‘We don’t go if we don’t have the activity.'”
Andrew: Oh, wow.
Jean-Daniel: So, that was incredible and [inaudible] that thing made it so that we must go in that area and . . .
Andrew: Did you say that the people in the home said that they were going on strike unless they have you come back?
Jean-Daniel: Yes.
Andrew: I see. Okay. That would make me say, “I’ve got to spend my life doing that.”
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: Your background was in physical education, right? What did you go to school for?
Jean-Daniel: What made [inaudible] studies [inaudible]?
Andrew: Oh, yes, what did you study just before?
Jean-Daniel: I was in Economics.
Andrew: Okay.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: But you didn’t study physical fitness?
Jean-Daniel: Four years.
Andrew: Four years, okay.
Jean-Daniel: Four years.
Andrew: That’s why when you went to get the first job at the nursing home, you weren’t just there to play cards with them, you were there to do physical work with them.
Jean-Daniel: Yes, yes. We were physical teachers. But there was not much exercise for them at the time, so we must learn to do some new activity, and it was a lot of work with our teacher and with the geriatrics doctor. It was big work but now we [have] plenty of exercises.
Andrew: You said that you saw results very early. What were the results? Do you have one example?
Jean-Daniel: One example. We didn’t have much material in the beginning, so we used some material that we used every day.
Andrew: I heard it’s like water bottles filled with water you used as dumbbells for exercising.
Jean-Daniel: Yes, for example.
Andrew: Right.
Jean-Daniel: And one of the exercises was to make the hands with–you know the thing the girls make in the hair? Elastic?
Andrew: Yes.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah. And one of these exercises was to work with the hands and the elastic. And in just three or four weeks, some persons could eat themselves because the hand was–I don’t know the word–but they can’t eat themselves before we do that type of exercise.
Andrew: I see what you’re saying. They exercise using this elastic and after a few weeks of doing this exercise, this person was able to feed himself because they were able to hold onto the spoon and to [inaudible].
Jean-Daniel: Yes.
Andrew: All right. I see now. And this was early on?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, that was at the beginning.
Andrew: Okay, now, I know my audience. They’re business people. If they saw this they would say, “There’s a business here. We have people who want our service. We have a population that’s going to get older and so is going to need more and more of our service. We’ll make it into a for-profit business. We’ll get rich.” You went in a different direction, which is why I introduced you as a social entrepreneur. You said non-profit. It’s not going to be about that. Why? Why did you do that?
Jean-Daniel: I think it’s . . . I don’t know the word. But it’s a way to see the life. I don’t know how to say. I don’t think money is very important for us. Ten years before, we had a big company [that] said, “We’ll make your company a profit organization, and we’ll give you 5 million Euros to do that.” And it was ten years before. After we had just another company that would say, “Okay, we’ll catch you and make a profit company.” But now we are happy. So, what is very important for us is that every person, even if they don’t have the money, can have these type of exercises. That’s very, very important for us. For that, we must have some ideas to make profits and to reinject them into the non-profit organization.
Andrew: I see what you’re saying. But here’s what I don’t understand. It seems like for-profit businesses can still do a lot of good in the world.
Jean-Daniel: Yes.
Andrew: Why not say, “We’ll do for-profit also. We’ll be for-profit and we’ll still do good in the world”?
Jean-Daniel: It’s a good question.
Andrew: Now you want to go back and get the 5 million Euros. Let’s do it.
Jean-Daniel: Yes, yes, yes, that’s right, but I think it’s more important for us–for me and Jean-Michel–to have . . . we don’t need to have a company [inaudible]. It’s not a problem. It’s a company. It’s a non-profit organization. It’s for everybody. Okay, it’s good to have money to have a good life, and that’s not the problem for a child. But even [so], we are good and I have no explanation. For-profit, it’s good, too, but it’s not our choice.
Andrew: I won’t stay on this question for too long. Just one more question on this topic. What’s one benefit that you have as a non-profit that you wouldn’t have if you were about profit?
Jean-Daniel: I say, perhaps, we are very free about decisions. The money is not [inaudible] or we don’t have [inaudible]. We don’t have, so we can do what we want to do.
Andrew: Okay. So, you’re saying you get independence because you’re . . .
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: Okay. So, you had this idea. It works great with one location. You say, “I want to do more of it.” You take it to 12 different homes and you say to these nursing homes, “We’ll come in here. You let us show you what we can do, and if you’re happy we can continue. If you’re not happy, we move on.” Eleven of them said, “We can’t live without you. We want you in here.” Did you take 12 on all at once?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, the 12 we did at the same time.
Andrew: And it was just you and your partner who were both taking on all 12. So, you’d do two in a day sometimes?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, sometimes. So, we do all the organization with my colleague.
Andrew: And you were charging the homes for doing this?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: So, they paid you and that’s how you were making your living for a while?
Jean-Daniel: Yes, that’s it.
Andrew: What was the next step after you did 12 homes? Eleven said, “We want you back.” What’s the next step after that?
Jean-Daniel: The next step was that some time after, we say, two years, we grew. Not fast, but there is a lot of nursing homes in France that say, “Why don’t you make this type of exercise in our department, because we don’t have this and it’s very interesting?” We hear about family. We hear about the doctors. We hear they say this is fantastic what we are doing there. And so, “Come here, we are waiting for you.” So, we take some salary. We [form] them. They are sport teachers, too, but we must teach them the specific exercises. And then we grew time to time.
Andrew: And they found you. How did they find out about you?
Jean-Daniel: I think it’s [that] we have a lot of media that take our organization and say, “That’s incredible what they are doing. And specifically in the non-profit world, these social entrepreneurs have a big effect [on] our 12 groups.”
Andrew: That’s impressive. How did the media find you? Did you call them up? Did you say, “Hey, look at what we’re doing. Come and report?”
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, the first time we did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like in the nursing home the first time, we come and all the persons say, “You are crazy.” But we say, “No, let’s try, let’s see, and you will be convinced.” And we do the same with the media. So, when the media comes in the nursing home or the home to see the person, they say, “Okay, it’s incredible.” We’ll take that and we’ll bring you to the TV or to the paper and so on. Yeah, we have a lot of communication about that.
Andrew: This was you calling them up? You would call up the local media and you would say, “You have to come and report?”
Jean-Daniel: Yes, yes.
Andrew: Why did you do that? That’s impressive. Why do that?
Jean-Daniel: Because we think that the work we do is very important for everybody, and we discovered that we can make a lot of jobs, too. To be a sport teacher in France, it’s very difficult, because you have a lot of students but you don’t have a lot of work. So, it was a good way to create jobs. So, we think that [inaudible] through and take some friends with us. So, it works.
Andrew: You ended up taking a few hundred friends with you and giving a few hundred people jobs.
Jean-Daniel: Yes, that’s it.
Andrew: So, you mentioned the word “resistance” a lot, and in my introduction I said that there was a lot of resistance for you at first. What are people resisting? Why are they arguing?
Jean-Daniel: The first reasons were the doctor, the kinesiologists, and some public, too. They said, “Okay, you have persons who are very dependent. They have no more autonomy and they are in wheelchairs, and you want to make sport with them. It is [inaudible] crazy. It’s nonsense.” The first reasons were that. We didn’t care about that and we said, “Okay, we must show you that it’s very important,” and that’s something that’s very important, so we work for that. And the second instance was with the states, the [inaudible]. We tried to find some money the first time with the grants, with the public insurance, health insurance, to say that prevention is low-cost. And they don’t understand that at first, in the beginning. For example, if you try to work the stability with the person–I don’t know if the words are good–but the full prevention with the [people].
Andrew: Yep.
Jean-Daniel: If you make full prevention with physical activity, you can reduce the number of falls [for] 70 persons, and you reduce the hospitalization for eight persons. With one person who falls, it can cost 40,000 Euros for one person for bringing [them] to hospital, to make [inaudible], to have a person come in their home to help them. With that money, you can make a lot of prevention.
Andrew: I see. That makes a lot of sense. It doesn’t seem like it’s the kind of logic insurance companies understand, but it makes sense. You’re saying 40,000 Euros is what it takes if someone falls and we have to bring them in the hospital. Forty-thousand Euros, we can give multiple people exercises that will prevent at least one of them from falling. And if we can prevent one person from falling out of this group, then you’re going to end up ahead, is what you say to them.
Jean-Daniel: Yes.
Andrew: And to you it makes a lot of sense. To them, they’re resisting because they don’t see the connection. It seems like they’re also resisting because they think you might make it worse. If you exercise people, then they’re going to get tired. They might get hurt. They might, I don’t know, get weak as a result of it, and then they’re all kinds of issues. That’s the resistance that you fought against. And the way you fought it was by showing clear examples. Like the person who was able to eat with a spoon or eat after they exercised with you, and by going straight to the media and having them cover you and giving you some attention.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: And it sounds like you also fought it with an army of patients who said, “We’re going on strike unless you let us do these exercises and be a part of this program.”
Jean-Daniel: Yes, that’s right. Then, 10 years after this, we have a lot of experience and we have a lot of results that says prevention works. Now, we have for-profit insurance companies that say, “Okay, we will pay for prevention because it’s good for us. We will save money so we’ll pay for that.”
Andrew: I see. All right, so I can see that for a while there you were battling resistance. You were approaching as many different homes as you could and growing your presence there. What’s the next step after that?
Jean-Daniel: The second step was to grow, not just in the nursing homes, but at the home of the person, because we have more and more old people and we don’t have so many nursing homes. And we have a lot of persons who want to stay at home. So, the next step was to go at home to help persons to stay there and bring autonomy to them. That’s a project that we have since [pre] years, and it works very good. This is a non-profit organization, too, another. It was called [Domisiel]. Not Siel Bleu, but [Domisiel]. And [Domisiel] helped more than 500 persons now at home, to stay at home. And there are more and more persons that [bring] to the problem.
Andrew: I see. So, instead of going and meeting them at nursing homes, you go to their home and you work with them there.
Jean-Daniel: Yes.
Andrew: You know, at this point I’ve got to take a step back and ask–this is a question from [Tristan], our producer here at Mixergy. And he says he’s amazed that you were able to build such a solid company, and I’m the same way. You’re now talking about a second part of the organization. And having built one solid organization is impressive enough. Two is what we’re talking about now. They’re a total of four from what I understand. It’s been growing and thriving and stable. You don’t have a business background. You don’t have an entrepreneurial background where you were building companies for a long time. This is your first time out, and it’s solid. How, how did you get it so solid? Big question there, huh?
Jean-Daniel: Big question, yeah. The first thing with it, we are two. And that’s very important because I can’t be here if I don’t work with Jean-Michel, because it was very important to help each other. When we have a problem, we (inaudible) the solution. So, it’s very important. And we [construct] our organization like a good father, I will say. We take attention to the money, and we have a lot of ideas. So, we want every time to [divide] up, to bring our activity to more persons. That’s not enough. We want more.
Andrew: But there’s so much involved in doing this. I mean, I’ve heard about companies that are thriving. They do well, they sell a lot, and then they have to close shop because the founder didn’t realize that there’s a cash flow issue, where he’s spending money today, today, today, but he gets paid in 90 days or 120 days. And that collapses the company. Little things like that can get in the way of a successful business or a successful non-profit. Did that happen to you?
Jean-Daniel: No, not for a moment.
Andrew: How did you avoid it?
Jean-Daniel: Because we made some economy at the beginning. It was very difficult for us because, with [inaudible], we don’t have money for one year. We had to take some cash to be sure that there is no problem, and we tried to have every time a minimum of cash flow so we [wouldn’t] have a problem with the money.
Andrew: You’re saying even in the beginning, you did not spend a lot of money. You lived very tightly because you wanted to have a lot of money in the bank to give you security against any issues that would come up.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, that’s it. Yeah.
Andrew: Was there a time you needed to use that money because there was a big issue?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah. We used a part of it to develop the organization in the country. To develop the new country, too, because we made money in Belgium, in Ireland, and in Spain. But, we find a lot of partners, too, and that’s very important to grow.
Andrew: But, was there a time when there was a crisis that you needed to go into the money? What was the big trouble that you had in your organization?
Jean-Daniel: We have problems, like every company, but for the moment . . .
Andrew: What’s one problem?
Jean-Daniel: The problem is the money for everybody. For every company, it could be a problem. For months, we see that the money is less and less, and we must just try to be patient and to stop the development for some time.
Andrew: Oh, what year was this?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, just four or five years ago. Yeah.
Andrew: So, four, five years ago, you were running out of money and you decided, “Let’s stop developing. Let’s stay where we are.”
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, just stop and then . . .
Andrew: Where did the money go? What caused your cash flow to go down? [inaudible]
Jean-Daniel: Because we had grown very fast and the clients were not growing as fast as we had new salaries. So, it was a problem at that time. We knew when we were beginning new departments in France, we must create everything. So, we must have one person who we’ll pay full time. But, at the beginning, you will not work in the nursing home full time. So, we had time to work in the nursing homes and to make money. But there’s a lot of time we must make the organization in the department and have the communication with our prospect and so on. So, at that time, we lost money in the beginning in the departments. But then, with time, the money came back and it [was] good.
Andrew: I see. Okay, So, growth–what you’re saying is–needs some investment and time and needs some up-front money, and then over time you make that back.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah [inaudible].
Andrew: You mentioned earlier that when there’s a problem–referring to your partner Jean-Michel–you help him, he helps you, that when there’s a problem, the other person has a solution. Do you have an example of that?
Jean-Daniel: At the beginning, I will say the [same] thing, other thing where we made [inaudible], contact the media, made the accountability, made the human resources. We do all that kind of thing. And then we have the separation. Jean-Michel made the network, the development, and I took the accountability, the human resources, and all that, to make the organization work. And now we have a lot of colleagues that . . .
Andrew: That do that work.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah. That do that [work].
Andrew: But early on you had to divide the responsibilities. You took certain areas, he took other areas.
Jean-Daniel: Yes.
Andrew: Can you tell me about an argument that the two of you had?
Jean-Daniel: Sorry?
Andrew: A disagreement or an argument that the two of you had.
Jean-Daniel: I would say for a moment, no. Everybody said, “You will see. There is a moment that you have a problem with him.” But, no, for a moment . . .
Andrew: What do you disagree about?
Jean-Daniel: Sorry?
Andrew: What do you disagree about? What don’t you agree on?
Jean-Daniel: With?
Andrew: In business. You and Jean-Michel, what do you disagree on? You don’t always think the exact same thing. Sometimes, you disagree a little bit.
Jean-Daniel: Oh, I don’t know. There’s really no problem. Sometimes, we have a question about the strategy of growing. It’s too fast on that, too fast on . . .
Andrew: Who says “too fast” and who says “let’s go faster”?
Jean-Daniel: Oh, I will say, “Grow faster,” and Jean-Michel says, “Oh-ho, just slow down.”
Andrew: Why?
Jean-Daniel: Because he’s more anxious.
Andrew: Anxious about what?
Jean-Daniel: I think he’s more anxious, perhaps a little more optimistic. Sometimes too much. But I say, “Okay, it will work, so we go.” And sometimes it’s good that Jean-Michel says, “Okay, slow down. Just wait and see.” And sometimes it’s good to go faster. So, I think it’s good to work together.
Andrew: When was he right about slowing down?
Jean-Daniel: Oh, a lot of times because sometimes it was the time to wait.
Andrew: For example?
Jean-Daniel: For the new country, for example, because actually we have, I will say, 10 or 15 persons [from a country] that will contact us to say, “Okay, we will do the same thing in Brazil or in Japan or in Kenya.” In fact, it is possible everywhere, because physical activity is the tool and it’s easy. It’s a (inaudible), but a good [inaudible]. Sometimes I will say, “Okay, we must make Siel Bleu in Brazil,” and Jean-Michel will say, “Okay, just slow down, man.” He’s right, because it’s a risk to go everywhere.
Andrew: What’s the risk?
Jean-Daniel: The risk is that the company will fold, all the company will dump because we don’t have so much money. So, we must take care of that. And it costs a lot of money to begin. After, it’s not a problem.
Andrew: So, [Tristan] told me about how in 2008 you founded GPS Sante–I hope I’m pronouncing it right.
Jean-Daniel: Yes.
Andrew: It’s a for-profit company that–you and I before the interview talked about–takes all its money and gives it to the non-profit, Siel Bleu.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: Why did you make a for-profit . . .
Jean-Daniel: Uh . . .
Andrew: Sorry, go ahead.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah. It was two reasons. The first reason was not to make a for-profit organization or a non-profit. The first reason was that [all] persons we saw that were old and who had problems, it was because of their work. Because if you have worked with your body all of your life, you will have problems in the muscles or some troubles. So, we say, “Okay, to be more effective, we must work in the company directly and make prevention with the person.” And we say, “Okay, it’s a good idea.” And the first idea was to go in the [field of] construction. We saw a big company in France. There are three companies in France [inaudible] construction, so it’s easy. We saw just one, and we said, “Okay, you have problems with your (inaudible) and you have accidents in the field of construction.” And they said, “Yes.” So, we made little audits, yeah.
Andrew: It’s an audit.
Jean-Daniel: Audits. And we saw that 80% of the accidents were in the first two hours of the day. It was clearly a problem of warming up. So, we said to the company, “Okay, just wait, we are coming. We are [inaudible], and you won’t have any more problems.” And six months after, there is no more accidents with the company. So, it’s good for the company. It’s good for the salary. And it’s good for us, because that makes money, and the money goes to the non-profit organization.
We made the for-profit organization because of the economic model, because we need money to make our activity as affordable as possible to the persons. For that, we must inject money in the non-profit organization. At that time, we didn’t find more [inaudible] or more, I will say, foundation that would give money for that, because it was a crisis. So, we found that we had the money for [our] activity, but we must have much money for that type of person. So, we made the for-profit organization that has a lot of benefits, and all benefits are going to the non-profit organization.
Andrew: Sorry, I don’t understand. Why not make this non-profit, too? I didn’t understand that part.
Jean-Daniel: Because when we are doing an hour of physical activity, with a non-profit organization we don’t make profits. We are, I will say, zero after we pay the salary. We have all the costs and we have just a [inaudible] zero. But, we need some money because there are a lot of persons in the [inaudible] in the non-profit organization who can’t pay [for] the service. So, we must find new source of revenue. With the profit organization, when we are going into a company, we are like a for-profit organization. We make money and we make benefits. We’re not at zero after one hour of physical activity [bringing] us money, and with that benefit we can reinject in the non-profit organization.
Andrew: I see. I thought non-profit can, at the end of the year, end up with profit and then they save it or move it somewhere else to a different part of the organization. You can, right?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, yeah, that’s right.
Andrew: Okay. To be honest, I don’t fully understand the structure and why go non-profit and for-profit, but I do understand the main message. The idea is the money comes from these organizations that save money by hiring you. You use that profit to plow into the non-profit work that you do.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: All right. I’ve got a good sense of your organization and how you got here. There’s something that I’ve been wondering about beyond the organization that I’m hoping you can tell me. You deal with people who are later in life, many of whom pass on, who die. What do these people regret at the end of their lives? Do you know what the word “regret” means?
Jean-Daniel: Yes. Regret?
Andrew: Yes. So, at the end of their lives, when they look back, what do they regret? What do they feel?
Jean-Daniel: I will say, when we are coming into a nursing home, where all persons will die in just a few months or years, they want to talk about life, not about death. So, they don’t have much regrets. Sometimes, they say, “Oh, we’ll be with my family. It will be nice.” But, no, this is life when you are [inaudible] coming. So, there’s not much discussion about regrets. They are good.
There is an example. One day I made a session in the nursing home, and then a nurse in the place just stopped and made–I don’t know the word–“They look like this [inaudible]. What’s happened?” That’s better than words. After the session, I go to the nurse and say, “What’s happened? Is there a problem with my session?” They say, “No, but you were talking with [the Miss] old person. She’s in the nursing home for three years and nobody has heard them one time. Everybody was thinking that she can’t speak.” And every week she told me the story, and that was [encouragement] for us and for them. I will say that kind of person, while in the session, they are so happy and, yeah, they will just have fun like a younger person who makes physical activity.
Andrew: You’re saying because you come into them with an opportunity to do physical activity that is so connected with fun that they don’t think about their regrets at that point.
Jean-Daniel: Yeah.
Andrew: They might with their priest. They might with their friends. They might with the doctor. But at the time that you come in, they’re so energized because they want to work out that they don’t think about those things.
Jean-Daniel: I think that’s true, yeah.
Andrew: Why do you think that is? How much of that is because they’re exercising with you, and how much is because they’re seeing somebody new who’s spending time with them?
Jean-Daniel: I think it’s both of them. The activity is very fun for them, and they are much better for a day. It’s both, because I think it’s very important to them to have a new person who is coming there and to bring them fun things. That’s very important, yeah.
Andrew: What about you? Looking back, what are your regrets?
Jean-Daniel: I have no regrets.
Andrew: No regrets. What are you proudest of?
Jean-Daniel: [inaudible] I have a good life. Just one regret is to have too much work in the organization now and just one day with the old people. Monday is my day, so I go in the nursing home and I make my work, and that makes me [beautiful] for the rest of the week.
Andrew: Monday is when you exercise with them?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, yeah.
Andrew: With the . . .
Jean-Daniel: And the rest of the week I must work in the company, because we have [inaudible] person.
Andrew: So, what are you proudest of?
Jean-Daniel: Sorry?
Andrew: What’s the thing you’re proudest of, that you’re most proud of, over the [inaudible]?
Jean-Daniel: Most proud of? Oh, it’s, I think, to have 60,000 people have a better life every day. I think I’m proud of that, I would say.
Andrew: 60,000 people, who every day get a better life because you train them, your people work out with them. All right. Well, that’s a great place to leave it. How do you feel you did, by the way, with the language? I didn’t do this in French. You did this in English. How do you feel?
Jean-Daniel: Oh, it was hard.
Andrew: It’s exhausting for one hour, right?
Jean-Daniel: Because it’s like, for a sport teacher, it’s like muscles. If you don’t use it, you’ll lose it. And English is the same.
Andrew: Did you find that you would have to translate in your head before you said each word? You did? You’d say it in French in your head and then you’d say [it] in English out of your mouth?
Jean-Daniel: Yeah, I will make progress for the program next time.
Andrew: Well, I hope to have you back on, and I appreciate you doing the interview now. Thank you.
Jean-Daniel: Thank you very much.
Andrew: Thank you. Thank you all for watching. Bye.
Jean-Daniel: Bye.
