Does Being In Stealth Mode Damage Your Business? — The Ari Mir Interview
on Mar 10, 2009 - 4:59 PM PSTThe full program
This is an audio program. Listen and/or download it here:
A few lessons from this program
Have you been listening to Mixergy programs long enough to see the damage incessant stealth mode can cause a company?
Ari Mir, co-founder of content analytics and monetization company GumGum, gave a great example of the dangers of stealth mode in the program he did on Mixergy. Here’s an edited excerpt of what he had to say about it.
Even the idea of building a technical proof of concept is “getting real.” And then once you have that proof of concept, show it to the outside world. You’d be amazing by how many entrepreneurs I come across that refuse to discuss not only the product or the business idea with you, but will never show you the proof of concept for fear that you may steal it.
STEAL WHAT? Everything can be replicated. It’s a ridiculous notion.
And they refuse to get any feedback. We learned this the hard way with one of our first startups, which was a social network for sports enthusiasts. We duplicated MySpace, and I mean MySpace. Bulletin boards, messaging, profiles, adding friends, a handicapping service, it took 18 months to build. We launched–and we realized we built the wrong product.
That’s 18 months!
That was the best lesson we ever learned, even to this day. If I were to do that business again, I would ask myself, “What is the one core service that that business could not have lived without?” And it was the handicapping service that we had built. Not any of that fluff social networking crap. It didn’t matter.
And so with GumGum, we said, “what do we need to do?” We need to track content in real time, on third-party sites. Can we do that? And that’s where we started.
Your turn. What’s your opinion of stealth mode? Am I exaggerating the significance of one clip from a much longer interview that I did with Ari? Tell me in the comments.
[Thank you Jonathan Nelson for connecting me with Ari for this interview!]
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March 10th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
100% agree – no point putting your beta version behind closed doors. That's why I have a half baked tweetizen.com live already – with a fully functional version coming up soon. BTW – check out the next version I'm unleashing tomm – will blow your mind away :-)
March 10th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Hey Andrew! I am a pretty new subscriber (about a month) to your videos and find them very interesting.
I think that it depends on what type of business you are starting. If it is a business that has required a lot of research and development, then it is fine to tell everyone because it is very unlikely people would go to the effort of copying it. However if the business is based on an idea anyone can copy then entrepreneurs should be more cautious.
March 10th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Great interview Andrew and Ari! I'm happy everything worked out so well.
March 10th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
100% agree – i've started several companies over the past 15 years and the only time I've ever seen an idea 'stolen' is in the media/content space.
When it comes to businesses, 99.9% of the people you share your ideas with have no interest in stealing your ideas, out of that other .1% 99% of them have to capability of executing on your idea. So the odds of it causing you damage are very very low.
On the other hand the positive benefits from teaching people about your products and businesses are huge. The benefit from the pratice of pitching your ideas will also help you develop and refine them.
Another side benefit is the more visible you are to your potential competitors the more demoralizing it can be for them to even consider coming in to your space.
I'd say there are at least a half dozen great reasons why you should get out and publicize your business as much as possible and only 1 minor reason to stay in stealth mode.
March 10th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Typo, “have no capability”
March 10th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Thanks. So how do you answer people who say that users who see an early version of tweetizen.com and don't like it won't return? (I know what I would answer, but I'm curious about your opinion Adarsh.)
March 10th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Thanks for the feedback Richard, but isn't Ari's point that ideas don't matter as much as execution and feedback? You can see my interview with Jason Saddler about how he makes money wearing tshirts and copy his idea in a heartbeat, but you won't be able to beat him because that guy works 7 days a week and puts tons of effort and creativity into his business.
And welcome to the site. Great to have you in the discussion.
March 10th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
OMG, I forgot to give you credit for putting this interview together. I'll add your link to the post now. Let me know if you'd rather get a link to someplace other than this: http://twitter.com/jonathannelson
March 10th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
Well-said. You might have been a better writer for this post than me. Thanks Jacob!
(This comment gives me a great opportunity to try the comment's new voting system and vote your comment up!)
March 10th, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Typos are meaningless. What's more important is that you get your picture in the comments because your ideas are great and I want people to see who's writing them. If you add them to Mixergy, they'll be added to a bunch of other sites.
March 10th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
Well tweetizen is a little lucky that way – everytime you login to tweetizen, my twitter account has automatically added you as my friend… so if you check twitter.com/tweetizen – you'll see a little over 1000 friends… which means over 1000 ppl have tried tweetizen… some of them still using it. Once I roll out the new features, I'll be sending them a DM asking them to try it out again and see if they like the new additions and to provide feedback.
This model can be applied to any new startup – if you decide to launch pre-mature to get feedback – make sure there's some way to get in touch with your users so you can update them with new additions. Remember that if they tired your product in the first place – there's a good chance they are interested in it and would more than welcome update emails.
March 10th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Yes and no. Not talking to anybody is dangerous and absurd. You certainly need to be talking to your customers (and measuring their behavior) from Day 1.
But what if you're in Silicon Valley and you're not building a product for Silicon Valley folks? I tell people the product I'm helping build is in “stealth mode,” but really what I mean is that we don't want press in TechCrunch.
Our customers aren't in their audience. We'd just be inviting unwelcome scrutiny.
March 10th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
I'm in the same boat. The startup I'm working on has no place in the 'TechCrunch' crowd. Because of this, its been challenging trying to find the right channels to use for advertising and releasing news.
I'm constantly searching for blogs and other communities that are the 'TechCrunches' of our niche in order to get the word out about our beta release.
March 10th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
The tech blogs don't seem to go out of their way to discover sites. I think
they only mostly discover sites through PR people or determined founders or
vocal investors.
If “stealth mode” means you're not going after that press, that's one thing.
But when it means you're not showing it to users and others for feedback, I
think–based what I learned from this and other interviews–it could be a
problem.
March 10th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Sure. I think you should show your product to users (customers) as soon as possible, from the earliest prototype on.
The rest of the world can go to hell, though, and that kind of “stealth mode” is totally fine.
March 10th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
AJ Vaynerchuk was in a similar situation. He had a tshirt site. Unique
niche. But he found tshirt blogs to talk to.
You can hear his interview here:
http://mixergy.com/*aj*-*vaynerchuk*
I like your niche, by the way. I'm sure you can find missionary sites Jason.
March 10th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
I like your attitude Jesse. For what it's worth, I did an interview with Eric Stephens, who does something called “listening labs” to see what customers do on sites:
blog.mixergy.com/intiutive-user-experience
March 10th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Someone with a business idea is no different than an inventor and you know how paranoid inventors are.
I think the fear is strong because the inventor believes in his idea so much and he can't imagine how someone else wont feel the same way. Another reason is often the key to the idea comes from a eureka moment. The fear is sparking that same moment in someone elses head.
I think the fear is legitimate. If someone told you about a great business idea, wouldn't you want to copy it?
March 11th, 2009 at 12:37 am
I've tried copying other people's businesses and it never worked. It's not
as easy as it seems.
Also, you're welcome to say here in the comments what you told me by email.
March 11th, 2009 at 12:46 am
1) You just killed one of the big arguments “no one is going to bother trying to copy your idea”
2) Just because you couldn't copy a few ideas doesn't mean someone else wont be able to. The fact that you tried is scary enough. Knowing that someone like you might be savvy enough to succeed, why would I share my idea with you?
3) When we built our previous website together we were both super secretive. We were worried someone would copy our idea and compete with us. We were right to be worried because many people did just that.
March 11th, 2009 at 5:00 am
I don't get this part:
STEAL WHAT? Everything can be replicated. It’s a ridiculous notion.
The first question suggest there's nothing to steal (ie there is no such thing as trade secret) while the second sentence confirms the fear that your product can be stolen easily.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
1) No one is going to steal your “idea.” They wait for the business to be successful and then they *try* to steal it. So when you're starting and all you have is an idea, it's pretty much only interesting and valuable to you.
2) See #1
3) When it was just an idea, nobody cared about it. When we succeeded some of the same people who dismissed it, copied our idea. I won't embarrass them here by saying their names, but I'm happy to tell you by email.
My point is that when it's just an idea, no one cares. Launch it and get feedback so you can improve.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I think the message is that execution is more important than ideas. And if you hide your ideas, you damage your executions.
March 11th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Great comments. Thanks.
So did you get any kind of email from disqus when I responded online?
I think I'm going to email them for some tech support on this.
Andrew Warner
Founder, Mixergy.com
March 11th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
great interview with Ari – killer advice. you will gain so much more by sharing your ideas that keeping them hidden. There is no reason to operate in stealth mode. We had a 2 week private beta and killed it to go live and get to market quicker and it was one of the best decisions we made. Execution is the hard part, so get to market and execute and stay out of stealth mode and private beta mode – they are just not helpful positions to be in
March 11th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Andrew, you're right on the money. it makes no logical sense, as you stated, except when people are trying to create a psychological stunt, a sales technique if you will, that facilitates such behavior. The concept is leaking small pieces of info, without the details, to create a sense of childish 'but I want to know NOW!', which a lot of people buy into. Our natural sense of curiosity makes that concept work to a degree, so they create this sense of anticipation and try to raise the desire, so by the time things launch – people would be that much more eager to participate. With some it certainly works. Again, logically – makes no sense, but logic doesn't always rule, unfortunately.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Ari gave me such a great interview that I think I'm going to have to pull out more of what he said and post them as separate videos, kind of like I did with Jon Bischke, Jason Calacanis and Seth Godin.
March 11th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Often, I think the real reason is that new entrepreneurs are afraid that their product isn't good enough. They worry it won't impress their friends, or scare their competition, or keep their customers from laughing.
In a future post, I'll show screenshots of the first site I launched. You'll laugh. It really wasn't good enough. But users helped me make it better.
March 12th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
this was a GREAT post…. very relevant for me re: a couple of projects i am working on…..”can't say what they are though!!”…..lol… just kidding— really helpful.
also, very timely as a lot of great ideas & start ups are swirling to the surface in this economy of opportunity
thanx for posting
March 12th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Thanks. Sounds like an issue that lots of companies are wrestling with.
March 13th, 2009 at 6:39 am
Andrew,
He's right on with this. We spent nearly 18 months building oyogi.com – a competitor to Google Answers and Yahoo answers. It was a huge flop! After spending 100s of thousands of dollars, we had a complete dud. The BIGGEST reason we failed was because we were building this site FOR US, not the market. We were convinced we knew what the market needed and, as the cliche goes “if we build it, they will come”. Guess what? They didn't come.
The Takeaways: Find your customer, understand their problem, listen 2x as much as you talk, do learning launches and concentrate on the core.
March 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
[...] Does Being in Stealth Mode Damage Your Business: Andrew Warner had a crazy discussion about this on Twitter the other day and it was very interesting. [...]
March 28th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
[...] this service, but first, let me start the development. I really don’t want to run my idea in steath mode, since I will share it soon and try to listen your ideas to improve mine. Posted by banzai10 [...]
May 12th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Yeah its true.. the ideas has been stolen in business due to the competition and this is not avoidable one..
good credit score
June 19th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Andrew. FYI- the interview gets cut off at 31:29
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