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Founder Of Fit Fuel On What You Can Learn From His Company’s Closure – With Luke Burgis

Posted on Sep 15, 2009 - 7:00 AM PST

Somehow, as Luke Burgis raced to build his business, he ended up selling fitness bars, cereal, pet supplements and “sexual enhancement” products. At the same time, he found himself running an online message board and a YouTube-like video site. Lack of focus is a big reason why Fit Fuel had to shut down.

It sounds nuts as you read it, but if you listen to Luke tell his story, I guarantee you’ll identify with it. If you’re building anything new, you’ll face the same issues Luke did. Which is why I’m grateful to him for coming here and being so open about his experiences. I know that, if you absorb the lessons from his experience, you’ll avoid making similar mistakes as you build your company.

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About Luke Burgis

Luke Burgis

Luke Burgis is the founder of Fit Fuel, a health food ecommerce site. You can reach him on Twitter via @lukearthurb.

Edited excerpts

The company underestimated how hard it is to get customers

I didn’t know what to expect, but I thought that if you put up a web site, you know, people will come. I had no idea. I mean it’s not that easy. They don’t just come and even if they do come, there’s a good chance they’re going to leave. I think our bounce rate was 80% in the early days which is not good.

[Andrew's note: they ended up getting customers largely through ads in search engines and search engine optimization.]

As they grew, customer service didn’t scale

When we were small, our service could be excellent for every single customer. It was so good that our retention rate was 50%. And on average those customers bought from us once a month. Once we scaled, we couldn’t maintain that level of service.

In the early days, the phone would never ring without being answered. Every email was answered within 12 hours. Usually it was a matter of minutes, but our promise was 12 hours. At the beginning, my business partner and I personally answered every single phone call.

So when the owners of the business are the ones doing the customer service, I would hope that it would be pretty good. We have a vested interest in the business. But that’s easy. It’s when we scaled and when we had 15 employees making $8 an hour that we had to instill that same level of pride into them that I had for the business. And that’s the difficult thing.

They listened to EVERYTHING their customers wanted

We were basically responding to our customers’ needs, which is good, but they were asking us for everything under the sun and we were trying to deliver that. So they were asking us for ab equipment. Next thing I know we’re selling healthy pet food. I mean, we were taking pretty much any product that you can think of and justifying it as some kind of wellness product. And before we knew it, we were selling sexual enhancement stuff and saying, “Okay. Well that sort of fits into the whole healthy living thing. You’ve got to have a healthy sex life.”

They sold more than they could stock

We expanded too quickly. We offered a thousand products when we actually only stocked a few hundred. And if you ordered one of the 700 that we didn’t have, we would quickly order it from our distributor, get it in our warehouse within a couple of days, then try to rush it out to you. So it was a dangerous formula that actually encouraged us to grow faster than we really could.

Drop shipping wasn’t an option with the majority of our distributors. We actually had to physically take possession and then get it to our customers. So it was a true just-in-time system. It’s hard to stay disciplined that way. If you can do it and if you have a good system designed, I mean, go for it. But it’s extremely difficult to scale that way. Very difficult. And it’s also very hard to have a high level of customer service because you can’t guarantee that your distributor’s going to be able to get you the products in time. There could be shipping problems, they could be out of stock on something. It really adds a layer of complexity to the business that makes it very hard to scale.

They sold too many products

We were definitely imagining that there were certain things that customers wanted. Healthy pet supplements, for instance, was something that we went into. That was less of a request by our customers and more of us seeing the size of the pet supplement market and saying, “Hey, that’s a huge market. This is the next wave of growth. Let’s get on it.”

[Andrew's note: If you listen to the program, you'll see the logic behind this. Sales really did increase when they added more products. The problem was that they were adding more products than they could handle. By the way, pet supplements did very well for them. Similar experiments didn't go so well, like selling cereal.]

Expiration dates restricted their ability to experiment

There certainly is a benefit to experimenting but it’s not cheap to experiment, by any means. In the case of supplements and food — we sold protein bars and different forms of food — they had expiration dates. And depending on the rules of the distributors, we couldn’t always return everything. It gets very tricky. When we moved warehouses about a year into the business, I ended up throwing away about $20,000 worth of product that was either expired or had went bad. So it’s even more complicated when you’re dealing with perishables. But if your vendors have an easy return policy and you think that you’re not taking on a lot of risk, then sure, there’s a lot of benefits to experimenting.

They blurred their brand

You can never lose sight of, “Okay, what’s our company supposed to be in the first place?” And I think getting into pet products or getting into sexual enhancement, which we justified under “health,” can kind of blur the lines a little bit. And I think our customers began to get confused and say, “What are these guys really selling?” We’re not bodybuilding.com where you think performance body building supplements. It was Fit Fuel, trying to be healthy living to everybody and we got a little bit away from our core mission.

They didn’t set benchmarks for success

I think experimenting in a measured fashion is a great thing to do, but you have to be scientific about it. We weren’t scientific at all.

Actually set benchmarks for yourself before you set out in the experimenting. Say, “if I don’t sell X amount of this product within three months, we’re going to kill it.” Have quantifiable benchmarks that you set, because as you grow, those things are very important. And hold yourself to them. It instills discipline in you. Really think through the different things that make a product work. Don’t just take a shotgun approach and try everything. It’s very good to fail quickly in anything that you do in entrepreneurship, and it’s good to fail quickly with a product too.

But just make sure that you do that, because in some cases we held out hope and were a little more optimistic for some products that we probably shouldn’t have been.

They couldn’t grow their forums to critical mass

We never grew a huge forum and I haven’t figured out the art of growing a forum or social network, so they never really took off for us.

I think you need critical mass in any community and we didn’t quite achieve that critical mass. I mean who wants to go in a forum when there’s really nobody to talk to? So at the beginning I and 9 or 10 of my good friends were just having a conversation amongst ourselves trying to get it to look like there was a ton of messages on there and a ton of users so that other people would kind of jump in and join the conversation. I don’t know if we ever got to that point.

They tried to make their software do what it wasn’t made to do

Our web developer had no end to his complaints of OS Commerce [the ecommerce platform they used]. Not to say that OS Commerce is not a great platform for someone to get started with. It’s free, I love open source. The problem was simply that we really wanted a custom platform. And we sort of got so far into customizing OS Commerce that it would have been very costly for us to just scrap it and start over.

So working with an existing code base, especially when you have a good programmer, is a problem because he has to work within that architecture. And it might not be as conducive with your long term plans as you’d like it to be. So, if you have the recourses, starting from scratch, starting custom, really gives you the flexibility to build it however you want to build it. By the time we were done, we had basically stripped OS Commerce down and built it back up again, but we were still left with a lot of remnants of code and a lot of things in there that just it would have been easier not to have in the first place.

They used too many different outsourced developers

To give you one example, we were going through our site several months ago and our programmer found a piece of code that was throwing errors for the last year from somebody that worked on our site on Rent-A-Coder a year ago. They actually left some debug code that if you went to a certain part of our site it was actually showing up.

I mean nobody reported it to us because most customers that saw that error weren’t going to take the time to send us a note to say, “Hey, guess what! Somebody left a debug code on your website.” They are just never going to come back, and they’ll think to themselves, “This company is not so serious. They got debug code on one of their pages.” So you have to be very, very careful.

They got distracted by non-core features, like video

We put on a video sharing component to our site. I think it was videos.fitfuel.com. This is at the height of the YouTube craze. We said let’s get some videos shown in our website. So we took six months of development work using Rent-A-Coder and probably 10-12 people built this big section of our site. It took a lot of time and energy. It never really took off for us because we didn’t take the time to promote as much as we should have. We never reached critical mass and we could have used those resources instead to simply build our core site.

They lost sight of their purpose

You’ve got to have a purpose. I’m talking about a purpose in your life. You need to know what your goal is. What do you want to do in the world? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you like a piece of driftwood, sort of going wherever the market takes you, wherever the tide takes you. And it’s easy to get blown off course. So I think you need to ask yourself, before you get yourself into anything, what is it that I really care about? And what is my goal, long term? What do I really want to do?

Full program includes

- You’ll hear what the company did right. I focused the text excerpts on mistakes, but if you listen to the full program you’ll also learn how they raised money, grew sales and how they got so far with little resources.

- You’ll get a deeper understanding of the issues Luke faced. Reading my notes is helpful, but listening to Luke tell you what happened will really leave a lasting impression on you.

- You’ll see lots of specific lessons, with clear, descriptive examples directly from Luke’s experience.

Suggested comments

- If you appreciate the openness that Luke brought to this program, please tell him in the comments, via twitter, of (if you know him) directly by email.

- Do you see any errors in the text? Video? Audio?

- What did you learn from this program? What message should others take away from this?

- I posted the RAW (full of errors) transcript since people are asking for it in the comments. Let me know what you think.

[Thank you Michael Simmons for introducing me to Luke and making this program happen!]

  • This was so interesting hearing about how a company grew, grew, grew 20% a month for 18 months and then failed. Very informative - and candid. I really do believe you learn more from the failures than the successes, and this interview proved it.

    I've seen a trend here as I listen to more and more of these interviews, Andrew: Testing is crucial. You cannot go into this blind. Those who succeed study the data and go that route, because it's proven to work. This is really eye-opening to me - and goes against everything that I've done in the past. Imagine how we could all have benefited in our businesses 5 years ago if Mixergy existed then and these entrepreneurs shared their mistakes with us!

    I've wondered how a company can seemingly sell a product to me online for so little that their profit margins are non-existent. Well, Luke confirmed that he often lost money on the first sale in order to retain the customer in the future. I won't take this for granted in the future.

    Partnering up with someone like Lara Bars in the beginning was a good tip - as was cutting out the distributor and working right with the manufacturer to keep profit margins high.

    Excellent, informative, great work, Andrew! Thanks Luke!
  • Wow! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! So many topics that I have been uncertain of which way to go about with my business were covered in this interview. I really appreciate you putting all of this critical information together for us to learn from!
  • jacked13up
    Hey Luke, I was a frequent customer of fitfuel.com and a highly active member on the forum. Sadly it didn't work out for you and your company. However your CUSTOMER SERVICE and FORUM TEAM was amazing. good luck
  • The section on having a purpose is helpful because that is definitely true!
  • I enjoyed this article, it was very helpful!
  • dalebotha
    Hey Andrew

    I loved this interview! Lots of gems of wisdom. You asked the the nitty-gritty questions I would have asked! And thanks to Luke for his honesty and willingness to share!

    A couple questions I would liked to have asked is:
    How much his angels invested?
    How much(in hindsight) he really needed?
    Did he at anytime have enough funding that could have kept his company running without any money coming in?
    How was his private life effected during the running of, and more specifically, during the company's closure and brankrupcy. - I'm a devoted Partner and Father so this question has special relevance for me.

    I'd really like to have answers to these questions. If it's possible :)

    Keep up the good work Andrew!
  • Very interesting interview. It's a cliche, but people learn much more from their failures than their successes. I would quibble with the word "failure," but the sentiment is correct.

    Best of luck, Luke, in whatever you do in the future.

    P.S. -- I really dislike Disqus. It's a pain.
  • lukeburgis
    Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm very grateful to Andrew for having me on to share this experience with you all. Please feel free to hit me up on Twitter (@lukearthurb) if there is anything else that you'd like to know about or anything that I can explain in more detail. My goal is to make Fit Fuel a wonderful opportunity for both myself and others to build better businesses. Good luck!
  • dalebotha
    Hi Luke

    I just commented above regarding your interview without reading the other comments so I just copied the important parts! I had some questions:

    How much did your angels invest?
    How (in hindsight) did you really needed?
    Did you at anytime have enough funding that could have kept your company running without any money coming in?
    How was your private life effected during the running of, and more specifically, during the company's closure and brankrupcy. - I'm a devoted Partner and Father so this question has special relevance for me.
    So thanks for sharing! Very ballzy to speak about it with such candor. I'll check you out on twitter!

    Warm Regards, Dale
  • Wow. This guy's perspective on his failure is very enlightening.
    Two thumbs up.
  • Thanks Andrew/Luke,

    I've consumed almost half the posts in Mixergy and I must say that this interview probably is the one that spoke to me the most. Working my way through eCommerce, I appreciate the tips and challenges Luke shared. Definitely will try to apply them into my scenario and hopefully be able to build a successful ecommerce business.

    I'll be listening to this interview a second and even a third time. Want to be able to absorb as much as possible and not lose a thing.

    Good luck Luke on your next venture. And good luck Andrew with your "secret TV pitchman" dream. Maybe we should start calling you Pitchman. ; )
  • I liked this interview because of the honesty of the story. Luke seems like a genuine guy and I learned a lot from his story. Andrew, the only thing missing from your sponsor spot was a microphone headset haha.

    Thanks to both of you
  • I can say I learned that it takes measured caution to get into a business. I think what Luke's case demonstrates best is that you really need a firm plan and be authentic. For lack of information, I think it's not really fair to say why the business no longer exists, but I believe it could be the competitiveness of the market and more importantly, the lack of a clear vision as Luke mentions.

    Really great interview Andrew! I love the fact that you bring up not only the hits but also the misses and all those in between.
  • Glad to see someone as candid and real as Luke talking about the realities of business - and what can go wrong. Great interview, Andrew! And congrats on the sponsor!

    Aaron
  • Great interview Andrew (as always); that's awesome you have a sponsor now. Luke thank you for discussing your story; very open, honest, and insightful.
  • I enjoyed this interview. Failure is an important teacher. Keep up the great work Andrew.
  • I'm so grateful to him for coming on and teaching what he learned. Thanks
    for the comment.
  • I didn't catch the video this time, but the writeup was very good. It's inspiration for me to keep my focus very tight!
  • The text takes me forever. Glad to know it helps. The only reason I
    include it is comments like yours.



    Andrew Warner
    (sent from my mobile)
  • Andrew,
    Great interview, I am loving your site. While I am building a site, your guest and experiances is guiding us to an awareness that we need, to keep moving. I got so much out of this interview, and I love hearing entrepreneurs mishaps and failures more than hearing their success. I have learned more from losing millions of dollars, than from making millions.. I took so many notes on this one!! Thanks so much for having a site like this!!!
  • I took a bunch of notes too, as you probably saw in the interview. This has
    been very helpful.
  • Thanks Andrew / Luke.
    Brave move for Luke to talk about things that didn't go well in public, I have a lot of respect for that. Too many curl up and disappear when things don't go to plan, but as we all know, many if not most of those we call the worlds greatest success stories had multiple early failures.

    And I loved the sponsor spot Andrew. Best I've seen in a long time. I see 'hair in a can' infomercials in your future ;)
  • My secret dream is to be a TV pitchman. You just made my day.
    I'm incredibly grateful to Luke. There are a few entrepreneurs in our space
    who are willing to talk about the closing of their companies, but few have
    Luke's ability to remember and articulate details.
  • grantaustin
    I'm not a Wordpress user, so I can't test it out, but would this Wiki plugin work for polishing the raw transcripts?

    http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wordpress-w...
  • Thanks. It's the best I've found, but it forces users to register before
    they can edit, so I'm holding out for something easier.
  • Georgios
    hi Andrew,

    is there a video ? i just can't see it!

    :)
  • Video is working fine for me the picture isn't that clear of Luke Burgis though. Good interview as always though =)
  • Thanks. I wonder if it's because I'm stretching the video to make it as wide
    as my page. I'll try another approach on the next one.
  • Thanks for the catch. I'm not sure why Wordpress sometimes kills my videos.
    Fixed.
  • Sabrina
    I'm missing video too. Juicy build up! I'm excited to hear this.
  • Thanks! I fixed it.
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  238. Stack Exchange – Joel Spolsky
  239. Start with NO – Jim Champ
  240. Start with Why – Simon Sinek
  241. Stealing MySpace – Julia Angwin
  242. StockTwits – Howard Lindzon
  243. StockTwits – Howard Lindzon v.2.
  244. StubHub – Jeffrey Fluhr
  245. Sunshine Suites – Cheni Yerushalmi
  246. SuperSig – Mark Jeffrey
  247. Sway – Ori Brafman
  248. Talk Like a Pirate Day – John Baur & Mark Summers
  249. TechStars incubator – David Cohen
  250. Teens in Tech Networks – Daniel Brusilovsky
  251. TerraCycle – Tom Szaky
  252. Tetris – Henk Rogers
  253. The Funded – Adeo Ressi
  254. The survivor – Yossi Ghinsberg
  255. The Whuffie Factor – Tara Hunt
  256. ThisNext – Mateo Gutierrez
  257. Threadless – Jeffrey Kalmikoff
  258. Thrillist – Ben Lerer
  259. TicketMaster - Sean Moriarty
  260. Timothy Sykes
  261. TNS Sorensen – Herb Sorensen
  262. ToolsToLife – Devlyn Steele
  263. TraderInterviews – Tim Bourquin
  264. Tribal Leadership – John King
  265. Tsavo – Mike Jones
  266. Turan Corporation – Robert P Smith
  267. TWiT – Leo Laporte
  268. Twitpic – Noah Everett
  269. Union Square Ventures – Fred Wilson
  270. Unique Blog Designs – Josh Mullineaux
  271. University of the People – Shai Reshef
  272. userplane – Michael Jones
  273. UserVoice – Marcus Nelson
  274. VaynerMedia – AJ Vaynerchuk
  275. VendrTv – Daniel Delaney
  276. Venrock Venture – David Pakman
  277. Venture Voice – Gregory Galant
  278. Viajar – Juan Dominguez
  279. Viralogy – Jun Loayza
  280. VoodooPC – Rahul Sood
  281. W Media Ventures – Boris Wertz
  282. WebCentral – Lloyd Ernst
  283. Webmail.us – Pat Matthews
  284. WeGame – Jared Kim
  285. WhitePages – Alex Algard
  286. Who's Got Your Back – Max Alexander
  287. Wikipedia – Jimmy Wales
  288. William Fernandez
  289. Wine Library TV – Gary Vaynerchuk
  290. WonderHowTo – Stephen Chao
  291. WooThemes – Adriaan "Adii" Pienaar
  292. WordPress – Matt Mullenweg
  293. Wufoo – Kevin Hale
  294. Xero – Rod Drury
  295. Y Combinator – Paul Graham
  296. Y Combinator - Jessica Livingston
  297. Yahoo! TV WHAT’S SO FUNNY – Shira Lazar
  298. Yahoo’s SEO – Tony Adam
  299. YSN (Your Success Network) - Jennifer Kushell
  300. YourVersion – Dan Olsen
  301. Zango – Keith Smith
  302. Zappos – Tony Hsieh
  303. Zoho – Sridhar Vembu

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