Conversation With A Mixergy Fan

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I wasn’t going to post this, but it’s too good not to add to Mixergy.

My interviewee on Friday had technical trouble and couldn’t continue with the interview. Since I had a live audience watching, I invited someone from the audience to come chat with me. I wanted to find out why people watch my work and talk about what you can learn from all the entrepreneurs I do. (Did you know that I’ve already done over 170 of them?)

Luke Irvin, took me up on my request for a chat and jumped on Skype with me. We had a very causal conversation, but if you listen to it, you’ll grab some unexpected ideas that you can use to grow your business. Here are just three things you’ll learn: 1) why people follow online celebrities, and how can you get them support your work, 2) how listening to entrepreneurs talk about how they built their businesses can make you gutsier than most people can even imagine, and 3) a few examples that should persuade even the biggest procrastinator to just get started.

Luke Irvin

Luke Irvin

Luke Irvin is gutsy enough to jump on a live video chat without any notice. (Thanks Luke.) His Twitter profile describes him this way: Vayniac/Entrepreneur/College Kid Crew.

 

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Full Interview Transcript

Andrew: Hey everyone. It’s Andrew, founder of Mixergy.com, home of the ambitious upstart. And this isn’t one of my interviews. This is actually a conversation. You see, I’ve started doing my interviews live everyday at 11:00 a.m. Pacific, and I hope you join us and watch us live for some of them.

But today’s guest had a little bit of technical trouble and we weren’t able to continue doing the interview. So, as long as I was on and I had an audience, I invited somebody who was watching us live to come on and have a conversation with me. Well, Luke Irving came on, and looking at some of my notes from the conversation, well, Luke came on and we just had a conversation about what…why he watches Mixergy. What he hopes to get out of it. What else he’s listening to and watching and payiAndrew Warner
Founder, Mixergy.com

attention to online, who he’s a fan of, why he’s a fan of them. We actually started off with a person who we’re both fans of, Gary Vaynerchuk, and I asked Luke why he has Gary Vaynerchuk’s logo on his Twitter icon.

Just to get a sense of who he is, where his head is, what he’s thinking. Along the way, we talk a little bit about why I’m doing Mixergy and why I keep asking my interviewees to tell stories of their business. And what I’m hoping you’re going to get out of it. We also talked about my stories from my past as I built up my business. I’m trying to think of what else we talked about.

That’s pretty much it. What you’re in for here is just a conversation. If you’re looking for specific techniques that you can use, if you’re looking for a conversation with someone who’s…or an interview with someone about how they’ve built up an empire, this isn’t it. This is me talking to somebody who’s been watching my interviews and learning from them. And me learning from him about what he’s looking for online. And what he’s about. What…why…what his motivation is, too. That’s kind of interesting. Why is he working so hard?

I always say, “Home of the ambitious upstart.” Why are we ambitious? I know why I’m ambitious. And you’re going to hear that in this interview. I want to know why you and why other people who are watching us, why you guys are ambitious. Where it’s coming from. So take it for what it is, come back to Mixergy and give me…give me feedback. Let me know what you think of this.

Here’s my conversation with Luke.

All right. Here’s the first thing I’d like to know about you.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: On Twitter, you have Gary Vaynerchuk’s book on…as avatar. Why?

Interviewee: Why?

Andrew: Yeah. Why are you promoting somebody else on your Twitter account instead of promoting yourself and your own stuff…?

Interviewee: I believe what he says. I mean, everything that he talks about. I’ve seen it work. Especially, like, being in college. I don’t know. Like, I first discovered it all probably like two years ago.

Andrew: Uh-huh.

Interviewee: Mainly through him and my friend [PHONETIC] Derrick Johnson, and how they use Facebook and Twitter. But once I discovered him, just everything that he said, like the way I’ve seen him build businesses, I just think it works.

Andrew: OK. And by the way, I’m not putting you down for this; I’m not putting him down for this. I just want to understand it. Because I’ve had a little megalomania streak in me. And I would love everybody to walk around with my tattoo on their body or my tattoo at least on their Twitter avatar. That seems like a first step.

So, I just want to learn how this happens. I want to learn why people do this. And then maybe I could reproduce it on a bigger scale. So, you say you’ve got his book and his name on your Twitter because you believe in what he says. But…so what? I believe in what lots of people say. It doesn’t mean that I need to promote them.

Interviewee: [Overlapping] Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew: In fact, what he says is that you should be promoting yourself. So aren’t you…

Interviewee: [Laughs]

Andrew: Aren’t you not following his advice?

Interviewee: Yeah, that’s a good point. I need to promote myself a lot more.

Andrew: But there’s some…

Interviewee: [Overlapping] I don’t know.

Andrew: …kind of identification thing that’s going on, right? Is it that you’re telling other people I like Gary Vaynerchuk and you want to see if they like him too? And if there’s some kind of rapport that you have between each other? Or, are you making a statement through his words that what he says you believe in, and it’s your…

Interviewee: [Overlapping] Yeah.

Andrew: …way of saying quickly to the world “This is what I stand for?”

Interviewee: The big statement I’m trying to make is that I’ve got so many friends that have so many great ideas. They just don’t know how to carry it out. And I think…I mean, I try to support him in hopes that they will, like, look into what he says and maybe that will give them the motivation to carry out what they’re wanting to do.

Andrew: I see. So by you having Gary Vaynerchuk’s book on your avatar, by you talking about him and promoting him, what you’re really saying is, to other, people, “This is the way you guys need to live.” That you need to take his words, you need to get up off your asses, and you need to go out there and do something.

Interviewee: Right.

Andrew: I see.

Interviewee: [Overlapping] Exactly.

Andrew: Why do you give a rat’s ass what all these other people do? Shouldn’t you care more about yourself and how much money you’re making, and how much of an impact you’re having?

Interviewee: I should, but you know…but I like…. I agree…what he says, you know? I’m…bottom line it’s all about the health and happiness of your friends. And I see so many…

Andrew: [Overlapping] …but your friends…

Interviewee: [Overlapping] …people that are…

Andrew: [Overlapping] …it’s not about the health and happiness of yourself?

Interviewee: Well, I’m healthy. I’m happy.

Andrew: OK.

Interviewee: You know? I am. I’m thrilled with my life right now. But I see so many people that are miserable.
Luke: …but I see so many people that are miserable and I don’t want them to be. It seems to me that with this whole self help movement, and I think Gary Bainertruck’s gotten into this self help movement too, but you look at Tony Robbins, you look at some of these other guys that are out there, they’re teaching you, but they also want you to go and teach other people because they understand that everybody has the need to be a teacher. To be looked on as a mentor. Right? Is that true? Do you believe that people do?

Andrew: Oh, yes.

Luke: I see. So if you create a brand that just speaks to an audience, that’s great, but if you could create a brand…if you can create a message that will make your audience into evangelists, and make them feel like they’re communicating something that they stand for, then, they’re going to be out there promoting it. They’re going to be out there more likely to talk about you.

Andrew: Yep.

Luke: So that’s what I need to do with Mixergy, I need to get my people to become evangelists by letting them know that everything we do here at Mixergy is about surrounding themselves with incredible people, helping themselves with people who are going somewhere. And then they’ll evangelize to their friends so that their friends can go somewhere too.

Andrew: Alright. So tell me a little bit about yourself beyond that. I just had to ask you that.

Luke: I’m (xx). No, my name’s Luke Erving, I’m in Conway, Arkansas. And I’m a Senior Computer Science Major right now. Possibly going for my masters.

Andrew: And what are you trying to do in the world. Your goal is to be an internet entrepreneur?

Luke: I would like to be really much. Nah. I’m the type of person that I constantly brainstorm ideas, but I just…I don’t…I feel it’s also like you have to have a team with you, because it’s hard to do something on your own. You need a team. And that’s one reason why I push like all the people I support, I push them out to my friends in hopes that they see that these people also have a team to help build themselves up.

Andrew: I see.

Luke: So, I mean, that’s my problem. I get so many ideas, I just don’t have anyone to support me and help me build those ideas.

Andrew: Ok, why…you listened to some of my interviews, right? You’ve listened to a bunch of them from what I’ve seen.

Luke: Oh, yeah.

Andrew: Why do you listen to them? What are you looking to get out of them?

Luke: Just knowledge, inspiration, motivation. But mainly knowledge. Just listening to them…

Andrew: Am I doing a good enough job getting you knowledge out of my interviews? Some of my criticism, I’ll tell you why I ask…some of the criticism I get is this is just people’s stories. Like today I posted an interview about a kid who at 16 started an internet company that offered free lyrics online. And by the time he was 24 he did I don’t know how many millions of dollars of sales and profit, but I’d say about 3 million in profit a year. The criticism I get when I get through his story from people is so what? What am I going to do about it? I’m not going to go out and create a lyrics website. I have my own issues and my own problems. You’re not telling me how I can deal with my own issues and my own problems. And that is some of the feed back that I think is valid that I am getting from my audience. What do you think?

Luke: I don’t think they’re listening enough, because story telling is a big key there. They need to listen to everyone and understand like the different trials and errors that they went through and maybe they can communicate more like that. Like, ok, that’s similar to what I’m going through, so that’s the direction I need to go to push through my errors and get to where I want to go.

Andrew: I see. So when you see somebody push through their own challenges, it motivates you to push through yours. And it gives you ideas that you might use to get past your…

Luke: Oh, yeah. Totally. And the big thing…and I’ve heard Gary say this and other of my friends say this…but we make mistakes everyday. Everyday. And there’s nothing we can do about that. But you can always learn from it. If you have the time to learn from your mistakes more, then you could probably reach your goal faster and better. But you still have to listen to…you have to witness what everyone is doing and the mistakes that are being made to educate yourself on what to do and what not to do.

Andrew: I see. You know what? I wonder if I should be drawing bigger conclusions from the interviews that I do? Now, I used to this, but it takes a lot of time and I can’t do a lot of interviews if I step back and say ok, here’s what you guys should be taking away from this interview. But I wonder if I should go back and spend more time on that. If at the end of an interview I should say, alright here are the 5 things that you should take away from this. Or here are 5 big messages that you can use. To me, though, stories are helpful. I’ll give you an example of how they help me. One of my biggest successes in business came when I was at an office at a company called Net Creations in New York. And, in fact, even before that, I was trying to get Net Creations to sell advertising for me. Every day I would call them up and say I’ve got a mailing list. I need you guys to sell ads for me….
Andrew: To sell ads for me and the guy on the other end would say, “How big is your mailing?”. And I go, “It’s 5,000 people.” And the guy would say, “That’s nothing. That’s too small” and he’d hang up. And then I call back the next day, and have another pitch, and the next day. (inaudible) under 10,000, he had no interest. Every day he slammed the phone down on me. I finally said to my brother, “Let’s take a check for as much as money as we have in the bank” which happened to be $2,000, so “let’s write a check for $2,000 and we’ll go over to them and we’ll make a big statement.” I walked into their office, and I said to this guy Sarensy (SP), “Here’s a check for $2,000. I want you to sell my advertising so that I can make money and I know that eventually if you believe in me, you will make money from selling my ads because I’m going to grow this thing big. But if you don’t make money from me take this $2,000 in your bank account, and at least you’ll still have $2,000 for doing business with me. At least you’ll have $2,000 for not hanging up the phone on me and putting a deal together.” They ended up giving me I don’t know how many millions of dollars in business over the years, but beyond that they ended up giving me guidance as a company credibility from working with them. It ended up paying off for them and for me as we grew.

The reason I’m telling you this story is I didn’t just invent this out of thin air. It wasn’t just Andrew saying, “Let’s go into their office and barge in.” A lot of my friends if I would have said, “Let’s go barge into office” would have said you’re fucking nuts.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: So not only wouldn’t they have thought of it, but they also would have resisted it if I would have brought the idea to them. To me it didn’t seem nuts, and to me I was able to come up with that idea because when I was a kid I read about Ted Turner and the way that he built up CNN and the way that he built up TBS, and the way that he built himself up. And I would hear story after story after story of him popping into somebody’s office with nothing but determination to win them over. I’d hear story after story about a cable operator not wanting to run one of his channels, and so Ted Turner would go into the guy’s office and kiss the guy’s shoes as some kind of big show.

Now, when you’re surrounding yourself with stories of people who are doing outrageous things like that, it doesn’t seem so crazy to have a desire and go out of your way to make it happen. It doesn’t seem so crazy to barge into somebody’s office or knock on the door the way that I did with a check for $2,000. It seems like that’s what the guys who you admire do, that’s the stories you hear every day as you’re learning, that’s what’s in your head. It seems natural. On the other hand, you see people, I used to go to school in Brooklyn, people would idolize snickers, and they idolized these guys who were going nowhere, and those stories also get in your head. And so the reason that I think doing interviews where people talk about their stories of how they built their company and what they did to get there, I think it’s helpful because I’m hoping that those stories will embed themselves in people’s minds the way Ted Turner’s story embedded itself in my mind.

There’s a guy I did an interview with–I’ll let you talk in a minute…

Interviewee: Okay.

Andrew: … but I’m getting a little passionate here.

Interviewee: (inaudible 0:13:03.0).

Andrew: This guy who I did an interview with yesterday, he started a lyric site. When he started it, he started it illegally. I mean I didn’t want to really beat the point to death in the interview, but I wanted to make sure that we got that on the record. He was taking lyrics that other people had online, he was copying them, putting them on his web site, he didn’t have permission of the people whose lyrics he copied–I mean the web sites that he copied them from–he didn’t have the artist permission, he didn’t have anyone from the record industry blessing his business. He just said I’m going to go out there and I’m going to do it, and I’ll work out the legalities later.

Now that’s a real story from business. It’s not the story that the PR–if we had a PR person if I was bigger maybe and was Business Week or CNBC before he’d talk to me, he’d go through PR training where they train that story out of him. Maybe during the interview with me, there’d be a PR person sitting next to him frowning as he told me that story. Because of the work that we’re doing here, it’s just you and me, me and somebody by Skype, it’s all raw and it’s all real, and they could just say it and you and I could pick up on it. And when we start our business, we might say, “You know what, I know I want to be in the right.

I’m trying to do the right thing here, but I’m not going to get so bogged down in every piece of legality and every extentuating circumstance before I start my business. I’m going to start it and I’m going to figure it out as I go along” and that’s the way that guy did it.

You go to business school, they say the opposite. You go to business school and they tell you about all these stories of guys who got tons of funding, and then they went out and they hired lots of lawyers, and we have stories like that here on Mixergy. But if you boot strapped or you need to hear the other story too, you need to hear just fucking do it. Just go in there and do it, and you’ll work it out. So there, that’s why I do that. But I’m wondering maybe I need to make my messages a little bit clearer. Maybe I need at the end of these interviews sum it up in like one great
Andrew: one great quote that people can take home with them that can embed itself, that can embed itself in their mind, they could share the story with a friend, they could pass that quote out there, who knows? That’s one of the things I’ve been thinking of, what do you think?
First of all what do you think about the message that I had there about the stories from entrepreneurs and what they mean for us?

Interviewee: Oh that’s huge, you know, that’s why I get so much motivation from my friend Derek because he’s a college CEO dropout and just hearing his story, because you know like he had an idea during college and he was so passionate about it that he wanted to go fulfill it and he did and now it’s just a booming business and they’re doing just an awesome job. The company is all people my age, you know, 20 to 25 year olds and I think he is the only one who is like a college dropout and they all, everyone else did graduate, he allowed them to finish school. But it still shows you that if you’re passionate enough about something it doesn’t matter if you have that college education or not, you can still do it. You know you have to have that passion for it, I think passion is the big key.

Andrew: I agree and that keeps you going when everyone else just doesn’t believe, that keeps you going because everyone else doesn’t believe. I remember I created a business plan years ago and I took it out there and I started showing it to people and some people would see it and they’d just get it and they’d say OK it’s a great story, I’m not going to invest in you but it’s a great business and that would fire me up. But most people, almost everybody said ‘nah, it doesn’t really make any sense’ and man every time I got a it just doesn’t make any sense, or you’re wrong, or you should be doing this instead, I’d go home and I’d be that much more fired up to build this thing up, to show them we could do it, to show them that its possible.

By the way, what you said about your friend, I think, shows the separation between the audience that I want and the rest of the world. Most people would hear that story about your friend and say, it doesn’t relate to me, it’s intimidating to me. One way or the other they would say, it’s intimidating to me. I can’t achieve it and so then they would branch off into other thoughts; I can’t achieve and so he must be a rip-off artist; I can’t achieve it so the government needs to maybe flatten out the financial incentives in this space because he shouldn’t make a lot of money if I can’t achieve it then I should get a little bit of what he can do. But one way or the other they would say I can’t achieve it and then they would branch off into other lines of thought.

The people who I’m going after are people who hear that and go I’m going to allow myself to think, what if I can. I’m just going to step back and say, this is interesting. What can I do that’s similar to that. The people who I’m going after will walk out at the end of the day, on their way home and start to fantasize about what they can do instead of feeling pissed at why this guy got away with something that nobody else can do. The Lyrics interview I did yesterday, I promise you you play it until the end of each person and they’ll be going home saying but you cant do lyrics anymore. The lyric business is done there are too many competitors, but the person who I’m hoping to target here would go home and say what else is out there that’s like that. Andrew this week did an interview with a guy who put lyrics online on a website, just took them off the site and put them online and built a business from that and he interviewed a guy who took How To videos that are already existing on the internet from You Tube and Vignio and every other service and he built up a profitable business doing that, just organizing it. Maybe there’s a little bit of the hint here at what I can do, maybe there’s something else that I can put together and put out online and maybe the search engines will drive traffic to it and I’ll have to figure out how I can work with the search engines, how I can optimize my content, how I can make it more useful. Those are the people I want. Yeah. What do you think by the way, if you guys are watching this live, am I ranting too long, am I talking much more than I should? Is this helpful at all?

I learn so much from the interviews that you conduct, hearing from Will M. I apply what I learn, trying to hustle every single day.
Right on, Will I wish you’d have come on here and told us how you do it, how you use it, I know that you watch these interviews I want to know what kind of impact does it have on you.

And Ethan, we’ve got to get you back on, I see that Ethan Block is watching us right now. I’m sorry about your connection we’re going to find a way to make this thing work.
So Luke, you’re listening to Gary Weinerchuck, you’re listening to my stuff here in Mixergy. What else are you taking in?

Interviewee: Some of the new upcomers that I see that are doing a good job is Dan Delaney, who hosts vender.tv,

Andrew: Yes, the guy’s great

Interviewee: I think he’s doing a killer job, I think he knows what his passion is, he’s going in the right direction and I could see that, especially when next year, the big conversion from going from social media to media. I think he will have a big part in that. I think he kind of sees where that’s going.

Interviewee: going. It could take a big part in that (inaudible 0:20:03.9)…

Andrew: We’ll talk about him before we move on.

Interviewee: Sure.

Andrew: I interviewed Dan here on Mixergy. It was maybe…

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: … my worse interview ever. It was my fault that it was my worse interview ever. I just didn’t do a good job of getting out of him what makes him special, and it’s tough to do that you know. For him I think especially, it comes so naturally that it’s hard for him to stop and just say “Ba, ba, ba, here’s what I did.” And there’s some people who can do that. I did an interview with Timothy Harris…

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: … and I didn’t tell him what I was going to interview him about. For all he knew, I was going to interview him without his book Four Hour Work Week and whether it’s true or not or whatever.

Interviewee: Right.

Andrew: But what I wanted to know was how he made his book a success. How he got his book into the blogosphere (SP), and how he made all these bloggers into evangelists, and his answer even though he didn’t know anything about it was so frigging methodical. He said, “Step 1 I did this. Step 2, I did that. Step 3, I did that. Now there are some people in life who are like that. Who are just steppers.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: They have these steps in mind, and it just works. There’s some people like Dan who just do it, who feel it, who take it in, and they’re not very methodical. They’re not the people who are going to analyze every step of everything that they do. They just feel it, they take it in, and they do it. And I don’t know how to relate to that. That is hard for me. That’s the kind of conversation that I don’t know how to have. I’m very much of a step person. Like what are the steps that I’m going to have to go through.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: What are the steps that he went through? How do I adjust it.

Interviewee: I’m the same way. I’m too much of a planner, stepper.

Andrew: Yeah, and that’s why certain books we relate to better than others. Here’s the thing though that I love about him. Beyond the way that he edits, beyond the mechanics of what he does that I wasn’t able to get at. What’s great about him is he’s a guy who has a passion and didn’t wait to be given anything. He didn’t wait to be given a TV show about food, he didn’t wait to be given a shot at something, he didn’t sit at the sidelines of some television station hoping to one day work his way to the top, he didn’t go out there and become a chef just so one day he could be on television. No, he said screw that. I know where I want to be. I can do it today. I can snip all those other steps along the way and just get to where I want to be. And so he got his camera crew, and he started shooting, and he had some trouble. He told me about how he had to cut back from a big crew to just one person filming him, and him doing a lot of work to edit, but he’s doing it. And over and over I see people who are doing it, and over and over I see people who are waiting for opportunities to do it.

Now as a guy who lived in Los Angeles all I saw were people who were waiting for their shot. Their one day, the one audition that was going to take them to the top or the one next class, the next acting class or the next get in touch with your feeling class that was going to really connect them with who they want to be and who they are, and give them that shot, and then they were going to make it on television or movies or whatever. That does not work anymore if it ever worked. Contrast that with a guy like Dan who says, “No, I’m going to do it myself. The technology is there.”

I’ve pointed some people towards shows like his, and most people say, “No, no. You don’t understand. You need a high fi edition that can run and…all right. Then wait for all that to come.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: Wait for all that to come for the rest of your life. You’re going to be 60 years old, it’ll finally come. Big whoop. Who cares? Now what are you going to do? Sixty years old, you’re set in your ways and nobody wants to watch a 60-year-old person set in his ways finally get on camera that he couldn’t afford before.

Interviewee: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew: So that’s what spectcular about him, and over and over you see that. You see Gary Vanerchuck (SP), I was following him on Twitter and I think I talked to his brother about this too. About the technology that he uses. He edits using iMovie…

Interviewee: Right.

Andrew: … the freebie piece of garbage, not piece of garbage, freebie video that Apple makes, video editor that Apple makes that they include free with every computer so that every mother and father can edit out the bad slower parts of their kid videos. It’s a kid video editor is what iMovie is. He’s using it to create something that got him on national television, that’s built (inaudible 0:24:04.1), he got him a $1 million book deal. So just go out there, and you just start it. You just start it. You don’t wait for the opportunity.

By the way, how many frigging friends did I have when I started in business? I left NYU and a lot of my friends said, “Go out and get a job.” I said, “Go out and get a job?” They said, “Yeah. You got to go out there and get a job first, and get experience, and get some money, and then you can start your business.” And to me that sounded nuts. It’s like deferring life to later.

You’ll go out and you get a job and before long you get a raise and then you can’t give up the raise. And then you get a raise and you get comfortable in an office, and you can’t give up a comfortable office once you get into it, you know. And then you’re used to certain lifestyle. You’re used to a certain safety, and you can’t go out there and say, “I’m going to go and start a business right now.” It’s harder. It’s not that you can’t. It’s harder. Everyone of those who told me to defer life until later, to defer the good part of life until I was ready for it because I had the experience, the money, the this, the that, the wife, whatever it is that whatever it is that they were waiting for ended up asking me for a loan and ballsy ass loans too.

These guys wouldn’t come up and say, “Andrew, do you have $100 to get me going for the next week?” One guy asked me for a $50,000 loan. Balls on the guy. Like suddenly I’m going to whip out $50,000 and hand it to him, and this is the guy when I was starting told me don’t get going, don’t do it, don’t start a business, don’t you understand the risk, you can go out of business, it’s too early, it’s too this. Same exact person comes back and hits me for a loan after I make it so these guys don’t know jack. All right. You were talking Leo Laport (SP). What do you like about Leo Laporte (SP)? I’m going to take another (inaudible 0:25:43.0), my (inaudible 0:25:44.0). Guys, if you’re watching this live and you have any feedback on any of this including shut up Andrew, I’d like to hear it. Come in here, give me yes/no, and different, change subjects, whatever you want. Sorry, Luke. What do you think of Leo Laporte (SP).

Interviewee: The thing I miss most is I would give anything to have the original like tech TV crew back, the screensavers, like all of them get back together. Because that’s what I grew up on. That’s I love, and I love Leo LaPort’s (SP) work what he’s doing now, it’s great, you know. But like that was the highlight of my tech years like…

Andrew: Why? I listen to Leo LaPort’s (SP) stuff and I’m amazed that he’s pulling $1.5 million from a podcast.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: But I feel like I’m missing the back story.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: What was it about this show that he did on TV that was interesting and engaging?

Interviewee: It showed like, I love the interaction but the way he worked with the audience because I really wish I could have been there to do like a live audience with him, and just the interaction they have with the audience. It seemed raw, too. Even that show seemed more raw…

Andrew: What do you mean they interacted with the audience? They were up on stage, they were talking to each other but they interacted with the live audience that was watching them?

Interviewee: Yeah. They didn’t even have that much of a live audience, you know. But being able to like–he would go over there and like just–the age thing was the big thing. I think that’s Leo LaPort (SP) loved the most was the fact that he was getting a younger age audience who knew technology, understood technology, and loved technology. I think that’s what he loved the most about it. But being able to like talk to them about that stuff and doing like their live land parties on the show and things like that. I think he loved that the most and that’s what I liked about it.

Andrew: I got to go back and see if I can find videos of it. From what I’m hearing every time a video shows up on YouTube of Leo LaPort’s (SP) old stuff on tech TV, the tech TV people have it pulled down, but I’ll see if I can find a show. I’ve got to see it. By the way …

Interviewee: (inaudible 0:27:43.3).

Andrew: … is asking who is it that I’m talking to here. Who am I interviewing. This actually is an interview. My interviewee today had technical trouble and so I didn’t want the people who came in to watch us live to just watch dead air.

Interviewee: Yeah.

Andrew: I asked if there was anyone who wanted to come on and have a conversation with me, and Luke Irvin decided that he’d come on. Thank you by the way. This is out of nowhere you agreed to do it.

Interviewee: (inaudible 0:28:05.6).

Andrew: Are you Twitter, he’s asking?

Interviewee: Me, I am, yes.

Andrew: Yeah. We were talking actually about how his avatar on Twitter has somebody else’s brand on it. What is your Twitter handle? Let’s let people say hi to you.

Interviewee: It’s thelukeirvin, T-H-E-L-U-K-E-I-R-V-I-N.

Andrew: Okay, thelukeirvin. You know, let’s go back to Leo LaPort (SP) for a minute. How he got big, I think I’ve seen from a lot of other people, the audience. This is something that’s been coming up a lot in my interviews. People have audiences before they started business seem to have a much easier time building that business, and they don’t need as much money, and they don’t need as much of anything, and they go back to their audience and they build off of it. So Leo LaPort (SP), I asked him how he got so big as a podcaster and he said…

Interviewee: He started on radio.

Andrew: So yeah exactly, and a lot of people would have said because he hustled all day long and I did this, no. He said, “I had an audience from television. If you want to duplicate me, you have to understand that–or copy my success in any way–you have to understand that I had a head start on you, and it was the audience that I had from television.” But I’ve heard other people say that they had an audience in different ways, and you don’t have to just be on TV to have an audience and to benefit from the value of an audience. I’ve talked to Roy Reuben, founder of Magento. This is a guy who created an e-commerce platform, open source, built up a tremendous business on top of it. I asked him how he got anyone to care about his open source project, how he got developers to help develop it, how he got e-commerce sites to use his platform and he said, “You know Andrew, I built up an audience before. I had blogged religiously about e-commerce online and I built up an audience of people who cared about e-commerce.” And it wasn’t huge. It wasn’t Leo LaPort (SP) numbers, but it was an audience that was specifically targeted to what I was doing, which was e-commerce. So when I released my product, I had the audience, the ready customers, the ready users for it, in that audience. I talked to Threadless, and I said, “Threadless, the whole idea behind threadless is you’re counting on the community to create your t-shirts, the community to vote on the t-shirts that are best, and on the community to buy from you. That’s a lot of people, a lot of communities. How are you getting all these people so you can build a business?”

Now most people who are building that kind of company would have to go and buy ads and would hopefully get some PR, and all that so on. He said, “No, what we did was, we were a member of an online community,” they weren’t even running it, “we were a member of an online community. We talked and participated in that community for a long time, and when we launched our business, we told that community about it. Because we had such an audience in there, they followed us over to threadless.com as we built up our business.”

In fact, I asked them, “What’s threadless mean? Where does this come from? Is it the fact that your t-shirts have no threads in them?” He said, “No, people think that, but it’s wrong. Threadless comes from Dreamless, the community they were active participants in. So, when they left the Dreamless community, they created a site called threadless. Dreamless, it was all about threads of conversation. Threadless was, it is no longer a thread, it is a real business.”

So, I see this, over and over and over again, and if I was going to be in college right now, if I were working somewhere right now, if I were plotting a business idea, even if I wasn’t and thought at some point that I might want to plot a business idea, what I would do today is build up an audience; an audience that would be the kind of people that I would want as my customers in the future. Then, when I have a product, I can go to them, and I can say, “What do you think of this?” which is not something you can do if you are just buying ads online. You can’t buy an ad online and ask, “What do you think of this?” and have your audience collaborate with you as well.

As if you have an audience of a thousand people who read you blog religiously, and a thousand people is tiny, but for your needs, if you are an entrepreneur, you have a thousand people who are potential customers, or potential collaborates is big.

Who else are you reading? Who else are you learning from?

Interviewee: I can’t think of her last name. What’s her last name?

Andrew: Maybe somebody live will know it.

Interviewee: Her first names Jenae. She hosts ‘Girl In Your Shirt.’ Have you been there?

Andrew: Yes.

Interviewee: I recently watched her new post about what she’s starting to do next year, for her business, and I think that’s huge. I think she’s learned a lot. I know she’s been real busy here lately, but she’s been learning a lot, and she’s going to take this business into a whole new direction. I think it will boom even more.

Andrew: The premise behind her business is everyday she wears a different shirt ands he charges companies for the right to have her wear that shirt. I thought she stopped doing it though.

Interviewee: It feels like she did for a while, but she’s in college too. I mean, she’s been busy with school. Maybe she just went behind the scenes. What she’s doing next year is she’s going to continue doing that, but she’s also got more of a staff now. She’s now doing more consulting and other things like that. She’s actually has a crew that will wear the business’s shirts or shoes.

Andrew: So she’s got a crew of people who are now wearing her shirt. Let’s go over to girlinyourshirt.com. I’m going to check it out. The guy that I like who is doing that is, let’s see, girlinyourshirt.com, and I think it takes you to girl.inyourshirt.com, because she was going to start a whole network of people in your shirt.

Jason Sadler has been doing this incredibly well. He’s been doing this now for almost a year. Every day he charges a company to wear a shirt. He shoots a video around it. He does a Ustream with it. He goes on Twitter with the company and talks about them. He’s on Facebook about the company. He Flickrs pictures. He’s a frickin’ machine with all the stuff he does.

She is not active, from what I could see. I have to find out more about what she is doing. I think that she was in the lead on this business. Jason Saddler is the guy who ended up taking all the attention. Last time that she did it was about a year ago, unless I’m missing something.

Interviewee: No, it has been awhile since she did this, but I think she’s wanting to start it again in 2010.

Andrew: You know what? I see this a lot, that somebody will have a great idea, but they won’t realize it’s a great idea. Maybe they give into their own doubts, I don’t know. I don’t know what is up with her, I don’t know what her situation is, but maybe they give into their own doubts. Maybe they don’t see the full potential of it and they miss an opportunity, and they don’t realize it was an opportunity until somebody else runs away with it. Better example, even than that is Blimpie vs Subway. Years ago there was Blimpie…
Andrew: Years ago there was Blimpie sandwiched and there was Subway sandwiches and they were just going to, they were both in the market but both kind of small. Blimpie founder didn’t do that much with his business. I don’t even know if anyone who’s watching this knows Blimpie, if you guys do let me know. Subway we know became huge. More locations than McDonald’s for Subway. At some point the founder for Blimpie recognized that he missed an opportunity and I remember he was on the back page of Fortune magazine saying “I realize my mistake. I realize that I didn’t see the full possibility here. I’m now noticing what’s happening with Subway and I’m getting back into it. I’m going to reengage myself in this business. I’m going to re-find my passion for this business.” Now I don’t see Blimpie setting the world on fire. My sense is that he probably missed out on that opportunity because he didn’t see it for what it was until it was too late. By the time he discovered it he was going to be a me too product to Subway. Now I think we’re going to see this a lot online. Probably even more likely from people who don’t launch their business, who have a great idea and they don’t launch and then they see someone who launches it and then they see that it’s not going anywhere and then they think maybe I saved myself from this big embarrassment and this big money loss and then they see that it is starting to move a little and then they think it’s too late and then it really takes off and then they realize the errors of their ways, they realize what they missed out on. Alright I’m ranting and raving here today.

Interviewee: Oh, that’s okay. But no I completely agree with what you were just saying you know, I mean that’s me right there.

Andrew: Your watching people run away with opportunities that you should be having.

Interviewee: Either run away with opportunities or the fact that a lot of my ideas I still haven’t seen develop at all which makes me think that well I probably should start something at least to see if it’s going to go somewhere. But still if people have an idea and they see it starting somewhere that should just motivate them to be like wait wait this probably has potential. I can push out better content in that person. I can do more work and make it better. They should jump on it if they see that starting you know, they should do that.

Andrew: Do you have a concrete example?

Interviewee: I would probably say maybe my friends company Tetango, cause he does network text messaging because I only know of one other company that does that and you know I’ve talked with him about this. I’ve said hey have you heard this and he’s said yeah he’s like you know but they’re, I think that business is actually making some profit but not as much as Tetango. I think they just like boomed in the right direction you know and I think these two companies started about the same time.

Andrew: So your friend came out with Tetango and someone else came out with a similar product.

Interviewee: Similar product.
Andrew: And who’s doing better you friend’s company Tetango is?

Interviewee: Tetango

Andrew: I see okay. But you have an example of an idea that you had that somebody that you didn’t pursue that somebody else did do something with and now you’re sitting on the sidelines and watching?

Interviewee: Not my ideas. No I don’t think anyone’s done my ideas

Andrew: I see, now you’re in school you said right?

Interviewee: Right

Andrew: Is that what’s keeping you from doing your ideas now?

Interviewee: I really feel it is. I get so wrapped up in school, especially since next year is going to be my last year I’m going to have to go twelve months solid to graduate so it does take up a lot of time and the fact that I work too you know. But here’s what I’ve been doing good at you know I’m big on being able to build brands and I’ve always worked in, like for part time jobs I do restaurant work so I’m always communicating with people and I do what I can to build my brand as a person you know and just I want people to be able to like enjoy my company when they come eat at our restaurant and I want them to ask for me I want them to some sit in my section because they enjoy my company. And I feel like I’ve been doing a good job at that and I’m trying to open up peoples eyes and I’m trying to and especially with like opening up to Facebook and Twitter I’m trying to build our restaurant onto that platform as well you know. We’re on Facebook, we’re on Twitter now.

Andrew: So you take them over yes.

Interviewee: I’m trying, I’m trying to build it up because there’s so many bigger brands around us, you’ve got Ruby Tuesday’s you know like brands like that you know that also aren’t using these platforms.

Andrew: The restaurant that your working for is it a mom and pop?

Interviewee: No it’s a just it’s an Arkansas only business.

Andrew: I see

Interviewee: You can only find us in Arkansas. But here lately I’ve seen other businesses start using these platforms and the thing about it is the thing I’m having issues with is that they’re actually using these platforms a little bit better than we are you know we use it a lot for advertising. Getting out our catering events and things like that but
Interviewee:…but these people are actually interacting. They’re actually talking with their customers.

Andrew: I see, they’re using all the social media tools, all those sites, to actually have a conversation, not just to list their, their menu online.

Interviewee: And too–and also, that may have been because of me because the owners of that restaurant–and this restaurant is among the [Popshop]. They came into our restaurant once and they looked really familiar and I went to talk to them, and I said, “Hey, are you the owners of, of Stromboli’s?” and they said, “Yeah.” I was like, “Hey, I’m Luke Irvin, I emailed you earlier wanting to talk to you about how you’re using Facebook and Twitter.” And before they left, you know, they said–they said, “What do we need to do?” And I looked at them and I said, “Care.” I was like, “You need to just care. And interact with your people, you know, listen to what they want, listen to what they enjoy, and build off of that.” And they’ve been doing that. I’ve been watching them do that.

Andrew: They’re doing that using–this is–Stromboli’s at the company you work for?

Interviewee: Not–that’s not–

Andrew: I see, this is another company that you actually said “care and interact,” and they’re doing it.

Interviewee: Yep.

Andrew: And what about the company that you’re working for? Why don’t you guys care and interact online?

Interviewee: They do, but I feel it’s just been more of advertisement. Because, because the thing is–the difference is like this is just a ‘mom and pop’ shop. This is one store. You know, the owners of our store own six, going on to seven, hopefully soon, so they are a little bit more busy. And, you know, they do want to control all this stuff, you know, but…I mean–

Andrew: They could have you just go online and do it all for them instead of all these accounts, and interact–

Interviewee: They won’t let me. No.

Andrew: They won’t let you.

Interviewee: No.

Andrew: Because they want to control the way that they are seen online. They don’t want an embarrassment.

Interviewee: Which I have, I’ve tried, I’ve actually tried to jump in and take more of a role, like you know, like, we did, we did a special thing for like Veteran’s Day. We allowed all veterans to come in and eat for free. And I went on the Facebook page, and a lot of the–of our customers were leaving comments and I would reply back, you know, saying like, “Hey, I work for Marketplace Grill, so I want to appreciate you coming in.” And they actually were like, the owners, they appreciate that. They, they like that. They want to see us interacting like that. But they just want to take more initiative, they want to do it themselves more.

Andrew: I see.

Interviewee: But…but they do like my ideas and where I’m coming from, and they want more. And I’m hoping–especially for college students, because I live in a big college town. And, I’m hoping I can build off of this to benefit college students and hopefully…I want to–I want to be able to help everyone, but I want to kind of open up this platform, where other people are going to see like ‘hey, I see what this business is doing here, using these tools’. You know, and kind of educate them in that platform too.

Andrew: Are you, by the way, are you on campus now? Or are you at your parents’ house?

Interviewee: I’m at my house. My place.

Andrew: At your place. So you’ve got a place. You’re not living on campus. But you’re living on your own. I see. Alright. How old a guy are you?

Interviewee: Twenty-two.

Andrew: Twenty-two. Alright. And you still have another year of school?

Interviewee: One more year of school.

Andrew: Why? I thought you were supposed to be done by twenty-two.

Interviewee: [chuckles] I had to take one semester off.

Andrew: I see. What were you doing in this–in the semester off?

Interviewee: Actually, managing a restaurant.

Andrew: I see. Because you weren’t going to go back to school, you were going to go and be out in the world.

Interviewee: I don’t know, like it’s hard for me because…you know, college is expensive. And when I graduated high school, I just, you know I did just get a scholarship and grants and things like that. I just didn’t get enough–

Andrew: Were you paying for school yourself?

Interviewee: More or less, yeah.

Andrew: I see. So you took a year off so that you could go and pay, make some money.

Interview: I took, I took one semester of school in my hometown and then the opportunity to be a–to be a manager opened up and I chose to do that. So I did that for almost a year. And I was just miserable. And I was completely unhappy, completely miserable, and I said ‘I need to get in school’. So I–I buckled down and said ‘I’m going to have to pay for most of it myself, so I got in school that way.

Andrew: Now I remember I worked this store in New York where, it was a clothing store and my job was to take hangers apart, to untangle them so that they could be put back in circulation upstairs on the floor. And I hated it so much that I remember saying I’m going to be the hardest working student ever, so I never, for the rest of my life, I never–I wanted–I want to live a life where I never come back and work in a basement like this again. Where I never do a shit job every day. That’s going to be my motivation. If I had to study outside of school, I’m going to study outside of school just to, just to avoid that fate.

Interviewee: I think, you know what, I kind of wish that every student, every kid at some point was kicked out of school for about a year to go out into the real world, to go and try what they think they’re–what they think they’re capable of, see what the results are, and then if school is what they need to, to do what they have in mind then go back to school…

Andrew: I kind of wish that every student, every kid at some point was kicked out of school for about a year to go out into the real world, to go and try what they think they are capable of, see what the results are. And then, if school is what they need to do what they have in their mind, then go back to school. If not, then go out into the world and stay there. My guess is that they are all going to realize what they are missing, and that they are craving in the worst way to learn it.

Interviewee: One guy, I’ve actually had the priviledge of meeting him in real life, Adam Jackson.

Andrew: Who’s that?

Interviewee: He lives in California, he works for… But he’s big into Social Media. Like he’s built up his brand using Social Media. But he went straight to California to get a job out of High School. He wanted to be in the real world and do that. And as soon as Twitter opened up he jumped on that. And he’s built up his brand that way, and he’s had his project he’s been working on called Adam’s Block. If you Youtube his name you’ll see what he’s done.

Andrew: Adams Blog?

Interviewee: No, Adam’s Block.

Andrew: Oh, Adam’s Block.
Alright, lets see. What else is there for us to talk about? Alright, one last thing here.

Interviewee: Sure.

Andrew: Tell me if this is too personal. Two things actually. First of all, what is it going to take to get you to replace Gary Vanerchucks’s name on your Twitter icon with Mixergy? How many people do you have following you?

Interviewee: How many people do I have following me?

Andrew: Yes.

Interviewee: 569.

Andrew: 569 people. What is it going to take-

Interviewee: 573.

Andrew: 563?

Interviewee: 573.

Andrew: 573. What is it going to take to get you to replace his little thing with me? Do I have to publish a book?
[pause]
He’s thinking about it.

Interviewee: Well. Hey, if you want to publish a book, publish a book. Go for it. Nothings stopping you.

Andrew: I will give you ten Pesos. These are real Pesos right here. Not enough? Alright, hang on. We have ten Pesos plus a single Peso right here.

Interviewee: No money needed.

Andrew: What’s up?

Interviewee: No money needed.

Andrew: No money needed. Done deal. Somebody who’s watching us, hack into his account and change it, I’m not waiting for the world to be persuaded by me.

Interviewee: Link me up with a little icon.

Andrew: Link you up with a little icon and you will put Mixergy for a week on your site, on your Twitter.

Interviewee: I’ll put it for a month.

Andrew: For a month. Done! Sorry Gary, you got like seven hundred or six billion people who are doing this for you, and now I got one more person who is doing it with Mixergy.
Alright, second thing. You’ve heard me talk a lot here on interviews about how I was a big nerd in school and that building a business was based on my need, I was fired up by my need to not be a nerd; To be accepted by the world. And a few other people here on Mixergy have said similar things. My question for you is, what are you like in school? Are you a guy who fits in? Are you a guy who doesn’t fit in?

Interviewee: Oh, that is a good question.

Andrew: Are you dating?

Interviewee: I am dating, yes.

Andrew: Then whats firing you up if you are dating? If it’s not the need to go out there and be the man in the world, then what’s the point?

Interviewee: It is, trust me, I’m fired up because…

Andrew: Because why?

Interviewee: I hate Arkansas. I want to get out of Arkansas.

Andrew: You can leave Arkansas without making it big. You could just get on a bus and go to New York. New York’s not too far, and neither is California. You’re not like a guy in the middle of Africa who can’t even get on a bus to Los Angeles; A guy in Asia who’s one of billions. What’s, what’s the problem?

Interviewee: I know, I mean I want to be in New York City so bad right now. Like, I want to be out. I don’t know what’s stopping me really. I mean, the fact that I’ve already come this far in school. I really feel like I should… I think I owe it to myself; I think I owe it to my mom and dad that I need to fulfill this, I need to finish school, and then to get out to the real world.

Andrew: Yeah, but you could get out into the real world, and just be a guy in the real world. And if you’ve been in Arkansas, right? It sounds like you pretty much been there your whole life.

Interviewee: Pretty much, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, then just being in Los Angeles, or just being in New York, or just being in another big city is going to be a lot of fun. You don’t have to be in those cities and be an internet entrereneur or a mobile, or working sixteen hour days. Why would you want to take on those responsibilities and work that long?

Interviewee: Why not? If your doing what you… If you can find what you want to do and-

Andrew: No, why not. Go deeper with me than why not. Because why not, is… It’s easy. Because it’s fun to watch TV, because if your in a new city you might as well go out and just hang out, and have a drink with everyone. Why? Where’s your motovation coming from? Where’s your fire coming from? And I’m going to be honest with you and I’ve said this before. It came from being on the outside of the world. I was watching all the cool kids hang out together, and do their thing together. I was watching the kids who weren’t even cool, who were at least into pot, or into drugs, or drinking or whatever. And I wasn’t into any of that. I was constantly on the outside and I was like “I’m going to find a way to get these kids to pay attention to me”. I’ve said this before too, that I wasn’t getting laid nearly as much as I should have as a teenager, or in college.
Andrew: … as I should have as a teenager or in college. So both those things were huge motivations for me. So go as deep as I am and if I’m not going deep enough let me know, because I want to be honest, as honest as I want people who come on Mixergy to be. So why?

Interviewee: Because I guess yeah, yeah, I mean growing up after school and everything, I was on the outside too. I was one of those people. You know, I always had to see people get what they want whereas I work for what I want and what I have.

Andrew: What do you mean? And people in your school, they don’t have to have jobs and you as a kid and as a teenage, you had to have a job?

Interviewee: (inaudible) Well, it’s not just a job, it’s just like don’t have jobs or they can go to school for free, you know, I mean … and I know like there’s tons of people that are probably in the same position I am you know but still it’s just, it gets me firedup knowing that I work so much harder then everyone else. You know, it feels like so many people have it so much easier but then again, where are they goon, if they have it so easy, where are they going to be in the next five years? Will they be where I will be? I mean, are they going to work as hard as I want to work? To be like someone big and like in the business world of entrepreneur world?

Andrew: Well I think I see. Show me more. What is the difference between them? They might be going to college for free and you have to pay. What about high school? I think high school is shaped, there’s a lot more then we realized.

Interviewee: Ha-ha, Not, my high school’s not big an example …

Andrew: No, it was just, it was just another day, another …

Interviewee: My high school was just, horrible, huh-huh.

Andrew: Horrible?

Interviewee: Horrible.

Andrew: What was it that sucked?

Interviewee: Teachers. Not, not, I shouldn’t say that you know, because there was a lot really good teachers but there was a lot of teachers that slack off. Really bad, you know. And the … I don’t know, like the biggest thing I had in high school for me was probably the fact that, from what, for what I used for, learned for technology really. We had a huge technology department in Orange, you know, like learning, learning all that stuff, when I was learning that stuff is when I was introduced to like, things like TechTV and things like that and that’s what really got me fired up, you know. Learning these stuff and in seeing these people do this, just really just like, I was like, this is what I want to do, this is where I want to be. And then like …

Andrew: You know what? Is I see two things, I see the push and the pull as motivators.

Interviewee: Right.

Andrew: I see some people who are pushed away, they don’t want to go back to the old life. I met this girl in Los Angeles who was hassling her ass of, I mean like working, trying to get work a lot. And I asked her about her life before she got to Los Angeles, she said, ‘Andrew, you don’t understand how poor we were.’ She was also actually from Arkansas. She goes, ‘We used to shit outside. My dad used to put tire out and we used to sit on that and go to the bathroom. I never want to go back to that life again.’ And so there are a lot of people who are motivated by that push, by not being something, by getting away from what they had, that crap life and left that. And I also see a lot in these interviews, and this is being eye opening for me, people where just pulled towards something. They’re just so into something that they can’t imagine not doing it, they’re so into something that they have to just keep at it. Oh shoot, my call is coming on here, let me just tell her one minute I didn’t, I got carried away with the time. Sorry, will call in four minutes. Alright I better wrap it up here.

Interviewee: It’s OK.

Andrew: Let me just say, let me say thank you before we go. Before I say thank you to you, I mean I going thank Will Lam who actually saw me talked to you about having that Mixergy thing on your, and your icon on Twitter and he says, ‘Give me a Mixergy Twitter badge, I’ll rock it.’ Thank you Will Lam and we’ll, and I’ll get you that. And look I’m going to get you one of those too. And let’s see who else … oh, Will Lam is also explaining where his passion, where his fire is coming from and I’m not going to read it, I’m going to have Will, hopefully in the future come on here and talk about it so we get it directly from him. Let’s see do we have anything else here? Hmmm, I think the rest is mostly people talking to each other except for GF Stradeades(sp)? Sorry, I keep mispronouncing your name and screwing it up. His saying, ‘Isn’t like money equals freedom?’ Yes money does equal freedom. Let me finally say, Luke my call is coming in, thank you for coming on here, thank you for spending all this time just chatting with me, I’m really grateful to you for coming in last minute like this.

Interviewee: That is fun. I enjoy the stuff.

Andrew: Alright thanks. I’m going to take a look at this, maybe I’ll publish it, do you mind?

Interviewee: I don’t mind at all.

Andrew: OK. Alright, thanks, thanks for doing it. Bye everyone, thanks for watching us.

 

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