Lessons From A Guy Who Gets Online Customers To Whip Out Their Credit Cards And Buy – With Gideon Shalwick
on Aug 7, 2009 - 1:51 PM PSTIn a world where everyone assumes that content must be free online, how is Gideon Shalwick getting customers to whip out their credit cards to buy his online classes?!
I invited him to come to Mixergy to talk about just that. I asked him to tell us specifically HOW he does that, and to teach how you can do it too.
The FULL program
Video excerpts
About Gideon Shalwick
Gideon Shalwick is an online video marketing entrepreneur and teacher. He’s the co-founder of BecomeABlogger.com, which offers blogging courses, and the founder of GetYourVideoOnline.com, which offers courses in online video. (Click here to say “hi” to him on Twitter.)
Lessons from this program
Don’t try to sell what you don’t know
Gideon told us why the first product he created and sold — an ebook called “Millionaire Drop-Out Secrets” — wasn’t a hit.
“When I wrote that book I was not a millionaire, so some people thought the title was a little bit misleading, because they thought, if you want to teach people how to make millions you’ve got to be a millionaire yourself.”
So he worked his butt off and made himself into an authority on blogging and now one of his most successful businesses is selling courses on how to be a successful blogger.
Your battle for revenue is won BEFORE you even launch
Gideon and I talked about several approaches to marketing online, but when I asked him about his most successful method, he said, “join up with someone else who already has a list that they built up throughout the years. And they also have, very importantly, a good relationship with that list. Of course we’re assuming here that the people on that list are targeted and they’re actually interested in what you’re promoting to them.”
He told me that before “every promotion we do now, every launch, we make sure we have team of affiliates or launch partners or joint venture partners to help us promote our product. It’s very, very powerful.”
Don’t ask for money right away. Do this instead
Gideon doesn’t get customers by asking them for their credit cards the first time they discover his site.
Potential customers might come across one of his videos on YouTube, and get a free lesson in blogging. Some of those viewers might click over to Gideon’s site, BecomeABlogger.com, and learn from a series of free videos. “Now there is no opt-in required for that,” he says. ” You can just watch them and that is it.
“If you want to take it to the next level and get access to a 72 page report that tells you a little bit more about how to pick your topic, how to get more traffic, and how to actually monetize your blog, and how to use social media to help you get more traffic, then you can sign up for that free report. So that is all still free. And that is what we are using for the initial emphasis for that initial contact with people to help build our audience, our list, and also the relationship with people on that list.”
From that, he ends up with a list of strong prospects who he built a relationship with and proved his value to before asking them to buy.
How your content is more valuable than currency
If you listen to the full program, you’ll hear Gideon talk over and over about giving away content for free. When I asked him why, he said, “my friend and business partner Yaro Starak talks about using content as your currency. You can either get traffic from buying it, borrowing it, or giving a lot of free content away to be able to help you get that traffic to your site.”
When I asked him about whether he buys ads, he said, “I dabbled in Google Adwords a little bit to try and get traffic to the site. But when people click on the link on Google Ads, they want to get something that is relevant and mostly free for them.
“If they click on the link and it just goes to a sales page, they probably get put off by it and just click away,” he explained. “So I found that is a really ineffective way of advertising my stuff, because people want to get a lot of free stuff on the Internet. And they want to know that you are the expert in what you are doing. And if you are simply sending them to a sales page immediately from your Google Adwords, it is not going to convert, and you are just going to end up paying a lot of money that is not going to turn into sales later on or even opt-ins.”
How you can use a giveaway to plant a profitable cookie
Before a big launch, Gideon says marketers might publish a report that their affiliates can give away to their audience.
“When they send their audience to that free content,” he explained, “they know that they are keeping their audience happy and that they are helping to build a relationship with their audience. So that is the first thing, the first benefit that they get for telling their audience about our free resource.
“The second major benefit, and especially if you tie this in with a product launch, is that if they are an affiliate, their affiliate cookies will get set. I am not sure if our audience knows what a cookie is. But basically it just means that when someone clicks on our affiliate’s link, they will get credit for any sales that they make later on.
“But when we get the affiliates to promote the free resource, we allow them to set the cookies on their audiences’ computers. And then when it comes to launch, whenever someone from their audience makes a sale, they get a percentage of that sale. So that gives them that extra motivation. I guess it is a monetary motivation to help promote this free stuff as well.”
Try this if you want more people to pay for membership
“One of the key things we are doing,” Gideon explained, “is, instead of saying that we have a membership site where you have to pay a recurring amount of money every single month for the rest of your life and for the rest of the course, we say, ‘Don’t worry about it. Our course is only six months long, so your payments will only be for six months. And then you get a lifetime access to the rest of our course.’
“And that is really powerful, because human beings struggle dealing with stuff that is infinite. It is impossible to get your mind around that, right? So when you present something like that to someone and say, ‘Here. Join my membership site. And guess what? You are going to be paying for the rest of your life into infinity,’ that doesn’t go to well with the human psyche.
“So works much better is if you can say, ‘Look. This is only a six month course. You only have six payments. And from then on you get access to any op-eds we ad to the videos and to any of our ongoing membership stuff we have like our teleconferences or our member’s only forum area, or any of the new comments people make inside the membership site.’
“So that is really powerful. And it is especially powerful for when people start going through the course. So they are in month three and they say, ‘Hey Gideon. I have checked it out. I am not sure if I want to continue. Can I please stop my payments?’
“And often we would say, ‘Are you sure that you want to cancel because you have only got two or three, or maybe even one, month worth of payments left before you get a lifetime access?’
“And nine times out of 10, people go, ‘I didn’t realize that. I am happy to pay for the rest of those months.’”
Full program includes
- Why you can’t sign up for Gideon’s classes right now. It’s part of an effective sales technique that you can use too.
- How much money Gideon is making with his online classes. He tells you what he charges each student and how long they stay members.
- Find out which 2 affiliates send him the most paying customers and how you can find your most valuable affiliates.
- Learn how Gideon is getting customers to pull out their credit cards to buy content. He’s using simple techniques that you can use too.
- Hear (a little) geeky conversation about the *specific* tools that Gideon uses to 1) manage his affiliate program, 2) send out his emails and 3) process his sales. Surprisingly, he’s using basic tools that everyone has access to. (And I use many of them here on Mixergy too.)
Suggested comments
- I worked hard in this program to introduce you to NEW and USEFUL sales techniques. Did I succeed?
- Are there any sales techniques YOU can introduce us to? (If you add them in the comments, please link to your site so we can find out about you.)
- Paola, my new audio & video editor, wants to do a good job for you. Do you have any feedback for her on how the program looks and sounds?
[Thank you Rosie Bernardo proof-reading this.]
View Comments to “Lessons From A Guy Who Gets Online Customers To Whip Out Their Credit Cards And Buy – With Gideon Shalwick”
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August 7th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Very inspiring interview.
Thanks!
August 7th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Another superb interview, thank you Andrew and Gideon. This is in my top 5, I love the mix of practical, actionable and well tested strategies and tactics. Gideon also seems to be a genuine guy, which is rarer than it should be in this industry. I watched this when the interview went live so I've already had an opportunity to play around with some of the techniques discussed and I'll be following Gideon's future courses closely. 10/10
Love it!
August 7th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Hey Andrew
Thanks for the interview – I really enjoyed having a chat with you and sharing some of my experiences with online marketing. You're a very good interviewer!
If I may, I'd like to add just a couple of further thoughts:
1. When I talked about testing, I mentioned that I'm a really strong believer in it, and then for the next question I said that we haven't done much testing yet (lol!).
This may come across a little contradictory, but I forgot to mention that we are still really in the set up phases for Become A Blogger – it's only been running for about 7-8 months now, and we will certainly be testing out a few more things in the coming months to improve conversion rates etc.
Testing may not feature as an “80/20″ type of activity in the start up phase for us, but it's certainly something we look at in more depth once we have the ball rolling.
2. I'd also like to give massive credit to Yaro Starak, my business partner for Become A Blogger. This project really would not have been possible without his help and influence. He has a really excellent strategy brain, and has been a HUGE influence for the success of this program – Yaro has built up international renown for his blogging efforts, and you can find out more about him at http://www.entrepreneurs-journey.com.
Once again Andrew, thank you so much for the interview. Just let me know if there is anything I can help with for your projects.
Talk soon!
Gideon Shalwick
August 7th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Hi Andrew,
Thanks for the interview, it was great. I especially liked your insightful question on the scalability of content versus software. A small comment on the video/audio: the audio was great while the video could be slightly better :)
-Johnny
August 7th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Great lessons as always Andrew. The part about how to sell the membership site without sounding like you want to lock people in forever is an excellent point.
Lots of stuff to use here immediately and this will definitely be one that I listen to / watch several times.
August 8th, 2009 at 8:25 am
That strategy with a membership site is brilliant!
August 8th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Wow, what a great interview! I was waiting to hear what the membership site plugin used was, but I guess you can't give away all your secrets. I have a guess, but was hoping for a confirmation.
I still have a question on strategy. Did you post the free videos before writing the Roadmap report?
I have some free videos that I prepared, but thought I should make them available via opt-in only because I don't have a list yet. I wanted to use the free videos to get feedback first on the product idea.
I'm curious how did you approach this hurdle? Was that just not a factor since Yaro already had a qualified list? What do you recommend for a new person with a product idea with no list?
@moniquewade on Twitter
August 8th, 2009 at 9:13 am
You should probably confirm with Gideon Monique, but my understanding was that he isn't using a plugin, just password protection on the directory where the 'paid for' content is stored. This is something you can set-up via your server using plesk of cpanel or whatever software your hosting company uses to manage your account.
August 8th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
I tried to setup up a protected directory one time through cpanel. I even did it while chatting with the Host Gator rep from tech support and as soon I did that my whole site stopped functioning. He told me that WordPress wouldn't allow you to do that. I had just one personal video I uploaded via FTP that I wanted to protect. As soon as he took off the protection my site came back. That's why I was curious about that because of this previous experience that I had.
I ended up buying a plugin for my site later. I was just curious. Thanks for your response, Paul.
August 8th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
Been following Mixergy for only about 2 months, but it's amazing what i've learnt. One of the best places to find great links. Gideon's online video creation videos were extremely helpful.
As for the interview, really great. No audio/video problems.
I've got a bold suggestion though. There are software such as Jing, screencast, Huelix, Vyew, etc and many other ways to do live screen casting. Eg in this link: http://www.labnol.org/software/live-screencasti...
For example, instead of simply describing the password protected blog, gideon could actually broadcast a live vid of his screen showing the viewers this.
I personally think that it is an added step in terms of work and effort needed to be put in to coordinate the use of such software with the interviewee. Of course, the benefits are clear: Easy illustrations of the software/ideas that so many of your interviewees are so passionate about.
I think that would make Mixergy remarkable!
August 10th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
He really is.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
He has a gift for breaking down tough concepts into easy-to-follow,
actionable steps.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Thanks again for doing this interview.
I'm a big fan of Yaro's too. Thanks for introducing us. He sent me a nice
email about your interview and asked me to talk about Bradford & Reed on his
site, which I'm looking forward to doing.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Remote video is still a challenge. *Thanks* for telling me.
Is there a specific issue you're seeing in the video?
August 10th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
As Paul said, Gideon told us that he didn't use a plugin.
August 10th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
That's a good idea. It's a lot of work for all my interviewees to do, but
maybe I can get one or two of them per month to do this. We could make it a
webinar and teach a subject from end to end.
August 10th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Yeah, I definitely understand that. The video just felt a little grainy compared to some in the past, sorry to nitpick :)
August 10th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Hey Monique
Great to see you on here too!
For the membership area I did not use any plugins – just the cpanel thing as Paul explained.
We simply created a new folder on our server, installed a blog there, and then password protected that whole folder.
Simple, easy, fast, and it works like a charm!
About your question related to the free videos and our report on http://www.becomeablogger.com, we first had the videos on there for a few months, without any optin required. This was great because we could get instant feedback from people, which gave us a lot of ideas for the membership site later on.
The next step was The Roadmap report that we added, and that required an optin.
If you are making your videos available (whether with or without the optin method), make sure you use a blog to serve it to your audience. This is great because then people can easily leave feedback about your videos inside the comment areas.
All the best!
Gideon Shalwick
August 10th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Yeah this is such a simple, but powerful strategy.
We've probably “saved” about 10% of people who wanted to quit before the 6 months were up.
Once your numbers start getting bigger, 10% is a very significant amount!
All the best!
Gideon Shalwick
August 10th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
No, I need feedback like that. Thanks!
August 10th, 2009 at 7:43 pm
Thanks for your response, Andrew.
Gideon,
I really appreciate the reply. Your experience really helps me sort things out. I'm glad you mentioned the comment function because I disabled comments on those pages, and put a short survey on the autoresponder sequence instead.
I can't thank you enough for your help.
Sincerely,
Monique
August 11th, 2009 at 5:34 am
Great interview. Just found Mixergy today, and the first interview I see is with Gideon. A fellow Brisbane, Australia internet marketer. Serendipity in motion there.
@Andrew – you should put a quick link on the sidebar to itunes (like you have for RSS etc) – since I notice you already have the itunes feed. I went to itunes, searched for Mixergy and manually subscribed to you, but others might not know that you are on itunes if they find you from the blog like I did.
Look forward to checking out your past interviews and the future ones.
Thanks
Aaron
August 11th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Fantastic interview. Loved how detailed Gideon was in his advice and in describing the techniques he actually uses in his business. One suggestion I would have, as someone who is interested in internet marketing, is to find out how the person you are interviewing get there information.
I found myself asking “what do I need to read, what online (or offline) communities do I need to get involved in to get more information and mentally get to the cutting edge of this topic?” For example, Gideon mentioned several other internet marketers who I'm now going to look up for their work and advice. But it'd be great to have suggestions from the interviewee of who or what to start following to learn more about the topic beyond the interview (but not necessarily by buying a program, but crucial forums or online communities, news sites, etc.)
Keep it up!
Cheers,
Andrew Skotzko
August 12th, 2009 at 1:20 am
Hiya Andrew
Not so much suggestions on who to interview, but more of a suggestion on a format for the book.
My personal thoughts would be for the book to take a different route, than to being the same information which can already be found on the website, albeit in a little more detail.
Being an entrepreneur can be a lonely business, as not many people understand us and our motivations. Mixergy makes it less 'lonely' by making other entreprenuers feel close and accessible.
So personally, I think rather than showcasing successful companies, it could focus on the people.
A book which I can imagine working, is a book made up of lots of little segments, each segment profiling a different entrepreneur. It could start with a powerful quote, background to the person, startup history of that person, major difficulties etc. It could then end the profile, by summarising their 'tips for success'.
How the book could be used? Almost like a wiki of fantastic entreprenuers – in a book proud to stand on any bookshelf.
Sorry for such a long comment here, but let me know if you like the idea, I could whip up an example profile and email it to you.
:)
August 17th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Cool interview. I was gonna write and suggest that you interview him or Yaro Starak, but looks like you found them without me, lol. Of course you did, you find all the entrepreneurs! Maybe Rich Schefren next? Either way, keep up the awesome work.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Glad you found my work. Thanks for the suggestion.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Yaro found me. He's interviewing me about B&R in a few hours.
Who is Rich Schefren?
Thanks for the comment.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Good idea, thanks.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Thanks for the suggestion. You mean a list of resources based on each
interview? Great idea.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Here's a google video where I learned more about Rich. He was one of Yaro's mentors. He's known as the guru to the internet gurus. Rich's teachings totally changed how I think about business.
August 17th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Do you know him well enough to make an intro? Or should I reach out
directly?
August 17th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Andrew
Your best chance of getting an interview is to go through Yaro – when he interviews you, ask him to get in touch with Rich on your behalf.
Otherwise you will have to go through a number of filters…
Regards
Gideon Shalwick
August 17th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Yes, exactly. Could include links, suggested reading, key topics to understand, etc.
August 17th, 2009 at 3:08 pm
I'm sure Gideon's right, oh and here's the link I thought I included before with a good intro to what Rich is about: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-784433...
August 23rd, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Andrew —
Great interview with Gideon. Well done!
I'm very familiar with Gideon's work and have personally benefitted from all of the free content he provides (GetYourVideoOnline.com is fantastic and free). The tools and marketing strategies he uses are important, but I think his real strength is his genuine and authentic desire to help others succeed. It comes through in everything he does. And as you've pointed out, that authenticity is what seperates the missionaries from the mercenaries.
Thanks again, and keep up the good work,
Lou
August 24th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
2000 people have or are going through BAB, for six times 47 dollars.
That's over a half a million dollars!! 564,000 dollars. WOW!! That's REAL money! Amazing.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:42 am
Hi tomitytom
It's almost like that :)
Keep in mind that we had a lot of affiliates that made sales for us as well, and for each sale they made, we rewarded them with 50% of the sale price.
And also keep in mind that it's a 6 month membership, so payments only last for 6 months per member.
But we are still making some good returns – definitely worth it for sure!
And of course, there are many other income streams now as well because we've built up a list of around 23,000 followers for our newsletter, which is really where the real money lies.
As the old Internet Marketing adage goes … The money is in the list! But that's not quite true. The money is in both the list, and in the relationship with the people that you have on that list. They both go hand in hand.
So the formula I always teach is this:
Large List + Great Relationship With The People On That List = Awesome Potential To Make Money
It's really as simple as that.
So, if you can find a way to build a list of followers, or a tribe as Seth Godin calls it, and you have a way of building up a relationship with those people, it's almost as if you have received the “license to print money”.
All the best!
Gideon Shalwick
September 1st, 2009 at 5:06 am
Andrew thanks again for providing another great a super guest to provide value to the Internet community! Gideon's content was extremely helpful that we'll be testing on our sites. For us split testing has worked the best
September 3rd, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Great interview, can't believe I didn't catch this sooner. Good info and engaging to watch, good stuff all around.
Gideon you've certainly come a long way since you first signed up for that course of mine years ago. It's been a complete delight to observe. :)
Cheers to Andrew for yet another fantastic interview. I don't think I need to say 'keep them coming' in your case, but there it is.
September 4th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Hmm. Im working on my doubleter site, and ironically i have video on how to setup a wordpress site, i'm also putting other content videos together
Do you think its a bad idea for me to go ahead?
September 4th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
[...] and loves talking with his fellow entrepreneurs. He came to my attention when he recently interviewed Gideon Shalwick on his current blog, Mixergy, which features tons of great video interviews with leading [...]
September 4th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
[...] and loves talking with his fellow entrepreneurs. He came to my attention when he recently interviewed Gideon Shalwick on his current blog, Mixergy, which features tons of great video interviews with leading [...]
September 5th, 2009 at 11:26 am
[...] and loves talking with his fellow entrepreneurs. He came to my attention when he recently interviewed Gideon Shalwick on his current blog, Mixergy, which features tons of great video interviews with leading [...]
September 5th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
WOW! For about the last month I have been reading, listening and watching interviews on Yaro's site. I found Yaro through a YouTube channel called Lisa3876 on her 2CreateAWebsite.com. I clicked on a banner from her site and found BecomeaBlogger.com then I somehow made it onto Yaro's Blog which I thoroughly have enjoyed. I saw Gideon Shalwick and his smooth way do a great job on BecomeaBlogger.com and was extremely impressed with everything about it. Gideon is a Pro. Thank You for putting this interview on, it really put a lot of things together for me. I found Mixergy by serching Gideon's name in Google. Keep up the great work! You rock!
September 5th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Glad you found me Jaime!
And thanks for all your really nice comments! Much appreciated :)
Gideon Shalwick
September 7th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Thanks. I know how right you are just by watching the way he's interacted with comments here on Mixergy.
September 7th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Thanks John. Let me know how it goes.
September 7th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
Great to meet you Juho! I'd love to interview you sometime too.
September 7th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Wow. Great example of the marketing technique Gideon talked about. Ever since I posted this interview, I've gotten nothing but positive feedback from Gideon's students via email and comments.
September 8th, 2009 at 9:15 am
very nice work
January 16th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
Hi Andrew,
I've been following Gideon and Yaro for a while now. They do have a lot of good stuff on their website. Still, despite knowing their work, you managed to conduct a great interview that taught me a lot.
Thanks for getting down to the specifics of exactly what he does, which programs he uses to conduct his membership sites, etc. Gideon seems like a guy who really does thorough research before he does anything, and it's great to get access to what he's learned so we don't make the same mistakes! That was invaluable advice.
I like how you listed the “Lessons” from the interview, too; it's a good touch.
This was a very worthwhile interview for anyone looking to launch a product. Thanks Andrew and Gideon!
Aaron
February 3rd, 2010 at 5:00 am
Surprised to hear someone as experienced as Gideon doesn't do much testing. That seems to be the consistent piece of advice amongst anyone who is succeeding regularly. But I've followed Gideon's work, and I know he is, indeed ,doing well, too.
Great tip on using YouTube and videos to bring targeted traffic back to your site. I checked out the street-magic tips example Gideon was a part of, and I see why people wanted to learn more. He gave them just enough free info/videos on the YouTube page, which prompted people to go to where the rest of the “magic” was located.
I've often wondered about the affiliate system – and why people would promote products for you. As Gideon said, it works two ways: They give their readers new, good content, making people trust their opinion and advice, and they benefit monetarily, as well. I feel more comfortable doing this in the future thanks to his clean explanation of it.
Gideon talked about the “funnel” you grow as you give more value and free info away. This kind of goes against what Wil Schroter said with regards to charging in the beginning, but I see how both approaches work for different purposes. I guess it's just a personal (and scientific) reasoning between which one we will choose to follow for each product/service.
Informative and well done. Thanks Andrew and Gideon!
February 18th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Wow. Incredible stuff. Thank you so much for sharing. I would rate your mission as a success. Thanks again and best of luck.
February 18th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
Wow. Incredible stuff. Thank you so much for sharing. I would rate your mission as a success. Thanks again and best of luck.
April 14th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Hey Aaron
Thanks for the great feedback! Much appreciated!
Gideon
April 14th, 2010 at 10:50 pm
Hey Aaron
Thanks for the great feedback! Much appreciated!
Gideon