The Outsourcing Company: A Mixergy Member Returns After His Business Skyrockets

I got a phone call from a Mixergy Premium Member who said to me, “Mixergy made a huge impact on my business.” Then he told me how it helped skyrocket his business to over $1 million in sales, so I invited him here to do an interview.

Zeke Camusio is the founder of The Outsourcing Company, a digital marketing agency. And the author of The Internet Marketing Bible.

Zeke Camusio is the founder of The Outsourcing Company, a digital marketing agency and the author of The Internet Marketing Bible.



Full Interview Transcript

Andrew: Coming up, do you have an inner dialog? Well, listen to how today’s

guest was effected by the cr*p that he kept telling himself and what he did

to stop it. Also for all those viewers who keep telling me that I need to

get into the personal side of entrepreneurship, I’m going to ask today’s

guest about crying at the side of the road and we’ll see how open he can be

about that, all that and so much more coming up.

First three messages, who’s the lawyer that founders in the Mixergy

audience trust, Scott Edward Walker of Walker Corporate Law. Have you seen

what Chris Prichard posted on my Facebook page? He’s new companies

incorporation pages, that Scott Edward Walker helped him get. Scott Edward

Walker is the lawyer that publications like Forbes trust. Go to

Next, when my friend had to close her company’s office but still wanted to

give callers the impression that all her employees work well under one roof

together what service did she use, Grasshopper. With Grasshopper everyone

who works for you can have an extension. They can pick up calls on their

extensions no matter where they are or what phones they use and they can

transfer calls to each other, back and forth with ease. Get those features

and tons more at

Finally, when Dave Jackson and Dave Petrillo invented a product that keeps

coffee at the perfect temperature, what platform did they use to create

their online store, Look at how beautiful their store looks,

it’s because it’s built on Shopify. They did hundreds of thousands of

dollars in sales, Shopify stores are designed to help you sell. Patrick

Buckley invented an iPad case and used Shopify as his online store. Within

months he sold over a million dollars in cases. Get your beautiful online

store at Here’s the program.

Hey there freedom fighters, my name is Andrew Warner, I’m the founder of, home of the ambitious upstart and a place where … I got a

phone call from a Mixergy premium member recently. He called me up out of

the blue and he said, “Mixergy made a huge impact on my business.” I know

that he said exactly that because I’m an obsessive note taker, I wrote down

notes as we were talking. Even on private conversations I take notes and

then he started telling me about how Mixergy helped skyrocket his business

to over a million dollars in sales and I instantly said, “You’ve got to

come on and do an interview.” Well, here he is, Zeke, is the Founder of the

Outsourcing Company, a digital marketing agency, and he’s the author of the

Internet Marketing Bible, and I invited him here to hear his story, Zeke


Zeke: Thank you Andrew, I’m happy to be here.

Andrew: Thanks, as you can see I had to redo the intro a couple of times. I

was smiling and I don’t know what during the intro. I’m excited to have you

on here. Our conversation was exciting for me to hear. So let’s see if I

can contain myself long enough to ask you a decent straight up question and

here it is. Can you tell the audience about the surprise announcement that

you made to your whole office recently?

Zeke: Yes, I just told them we were going to Costa Rica for ten months and

everybody was really excited.

Andrew: For how long, ten months?

Zeke: Oh, did I say ten months, no sorry, that would be too long, ten days.

Andrew: All right, yes, it looks like you’re also excited to be here. So

ten days surprise trip to Costa Rica, you’re paying for it, you’re going to

take them all out there?

Zeke: Yes.

Andrew: That’s kind of exciting, do you remember when you couldn’t even

take yourself to Costa Rica or maybe when you couldn’t do something that

the average person would take for granted?

Zeke: Yes, I was broke for a long time so yes I definitely remember.

Andrew: I remember for me it was, all I could afford to eat at the Chinese

restaurant across the street from me when I was starting Bradford and Reed

was fried rice with vegetables and I foolishly got the vegetables in there

because I thought it’s got to be healthy, they’re vegetables in there.

You told Jeremy, our producer, that for the first seven years in business

you were wondering every day if this is what you should even be doing. You

kept doubting yourself, you weren’t making much money. You told your wife

50 times, I’m telling your story, you tell me what life was like back then?

Zeke: I had a very early success in life and back then I was 18 years old

and I was feeling very confident and then I tried to replicate this success

with my second business and it just wasn’t happening so I was having this

internal dialog, doubting myself, just thinking was it just luck. Probably

I don’t have the skills that it takes; probably I’m not smart enough. Maybe

I just got lucky for a couple of years.

Andrew: And what is the dialog, does it just keep going on and on as you go

through your day, as you’re going to the supermarket and getting milk, as

you’re walking down the street, as you’re watching TV, as you’re waking up,

is it constantly, constantly going on, what you just said to us?

Zeke: I think it comes and goes, you know. Yes for some moments I was

feeling like really excited and super self-confident but then the next day

I was feeling low again and just doubting whether I doing was the right

thing and if it was going to be successful or not.

Andrew: And why couldn’t you get a job?

Zeke: Well, back then I’m from Argentina and I moved to the U.S., about six

years ago and I went back and forth but finally I met my wife so I decided

to stay in the U.S., but I couldn’t get a job because I wasn’t an American

citizen so I was really out of options. Like I had to make this work and my

wife was working two jobs just to pay for the bills so I was coming from

South America where we have all this macho culture having to be, having to

have my wife pay for all the bills was a big hit for me.

Andrew: I have to tell you, I don’t understand these American men who are

happy and proud that their wives go out and just work for them. I don’t

mean the kind where the husband decides that he’s going to stay at home and

take care of the kids but the ones who are just proud to just be leeches,

to be leeches off their girlfriends, to be leeches off of their wives. I

just, as a man I just couldn’t do and frankly women too, if they’re

leeches, I don’t understand how they could live with themselves. I’m with


Zeke: Exactly.

Andrew: So, did you ever feel like this woman just shouldn’t be even dating

me? She married the wrong person, she’s going to discover how much of a

fraud I am or what were you thinking about that, about her opinion of you?

Zeke: Well, I think that I had something of that going on but I wasn’t

really understanding it back then, you know, I had started dating my, well

my now wife, but back then it was my girlfriend so of course when you start

dating someone you really need to impress that person and I just, I don’t

know, I was feeling very low and I felt like maybe I wasn’t good enough.

Yes I had a lot of that going on for sure.

Andrew: You know, I want to go into the business part of this but I’ve got

to stick here for a little bit because I know that for me in that situation

when I felt that I couldn’t afford the chicken in the chicken fried rice,

I’d just go for vegetables, if was in a relationship I would’ve screwed up

the relationship because I would’ve felt so inferior to the woman and to

other men out there and maybe even the reason why I didn’t get into

relationships back then is because I was working on myself this way but

here you were, you met a woman who you loved, a woman who was terrific, who

you ended up marring and you didn’t screw it up. Without confidence how do

you keep from screwing it up?

Zeke: So, this dialog that I had in my head, I had two different sides. I

had inside of you’re not good enough, you can’t pull this off but I had the

other side just stop being a baby, pull yourself together, just stop over

analyzing everything and just do what you know you have to do. So I think

that’s what kept me sane and balanced.

Andrew: I see, did you also in addition to any kind of inferiority or any

kind of negative talk, do you also have this feeling of I belong on top of

life, I belong somewhere bigger than where I am, did you also have that?

Zeke: Well for me, like, I was always an over achiever. In high school,

college, sports, I was always in the top 5 percent so it really pissed me

off because I’m like, I’m a smart guy, why is it not working for me. I

mean, I’m working my butt off, I’m a smart guy, why is it not happening,

why is it taking so long.

Andrew: I’m writing that down, I’m a smart guy why is it not working for

me, smart look, I’m even going to take my time to do this, smart guy why

not working for me because I want to answer that in this interview because

that’s an important question. I’ve asked myself that a lot of times in my

life and I can’t answer it in the moment because I’m feeling so down on

myself because I’m so deep in the details of the frustration and the


When you take a step back maybe now you can look back and say, ‘that’s why

that guy of a few years ago didn’t do it because I want to hear how you

answer because maybe it will help us answer it when we’re feeling that way.

Alright, I’ll continue with the story. You were saying that you were a guy

who was doing well. In fact at 18 you alluded to this, you had a business,

can you tell the audience about that business? It’s pretty cleaver what you

were able to do.

Zeke: Yeah, so what I did is, so I guess the advantage of growing up in a

third world country is that if you analyze what’s happening in Europe and

in the U.S everything there gets three or four years late. So you can take

ideas and implement them in your own country. So I was looking at some

American companies that were doing a really good job with online training,

eLearning. So what I did is I approached, I think it was like six or seven

different experts in different things and we developed courses in CD. So,

it was like how to learn to speak English. We had one for Italian, French,

speed reading, memory. So we basically created all these different courses

and the good thing about this is that I paid each expert $100 and then I

owned the contents so then I could burn a new CD, that’s like 50 cents

right? So it was like almost 100% profit after that initial investment.

Andrew: So you get them to teach. You then start selling it. I’ll get to

how you sold it in a moment and what kind of revenue you did at 18 with

this business but to get someone to teach English, to do it right, it’s not

easy. You can’t just put a camera on them and say hey, roll, I’ve got to

get something that’s gold here. It takes some time right? So how did you

get them to teach it properly?

Zeke: You know, looking back at it, I think that the quality of some of the

courses wasn’t that great but most of our customers found it very helpful

especially because there was no, I mean, it was either pay $25 pesos for

the CD and basically learn the whole language or pay $400 to a school and

take six months. So we were in a very unique space and there wasn’t a lot

of competition really. I mean it was just us selling this product. So,

yeah, but looking back at it, some of the products were not that great.

Andrew: I see, OK. All right, I remember living in Argentina where I

couldn’t get the things I was used to. Like I couldn’t watch HULU for

example, I think or one of those sites, I just couldn’t watch them. So I’d

go down to the street and for a couple of pesos, less then a buck, I could

get a movie if there wasn’t a cop who was hanging out right in, like

looking for his own DVDs and crowding me out it. You know, if he was then

I’d have to wait and step aside. But it’s such a part of the culture to do

this. So how are you walking into this culture and saying I got CDs for you

guys to buy and I know you’re not buying all this Hollywood stuff, but

you’ve got to buy mine. What do you do to sell in that kind of environment?

Zeke: What I did is basically I purchase a list of people who had bought

online before. It wasn’t a very good list because those people had bought

completely different products but back them selling emails is still free

but now we have all these filters and back them as long as you had a list

you could email them as long as it said if you want to unsubscribe just

click here. That was the only regulation. So that’s how I did it.

Andrew: I see. So you basically buy the list, pretty inexpensive because

the list is sold over and over again and you still have to get them to buy.

Tell me about the copy?

Zeke: I think I’ve always been a really good copywriter. I’ve always been

really good at understanding why people buy, what are the main benefits of

a product and how to position it in a way that It’s unique, you need to

have it right away.

Andrew: So, what are some of the things you knew even back that then that

you need to include in a sales letter, an email letter that makes it feel

like something you have to buy right away?

Zeke: Well, the subject line in the email is, that’s half of your battle is

there, getting people to open your email. Once they open it you have about

half of a second for them to decide whether it’s something that’s worth

reading or not.

Andrew: So what did you do? Blow my mind with something you did to get

people to open up an email or to keep reading after they read the first

sentence or two?

Zeke: So, for example, using the learn English product, one of the things

in Argentina is that back then it was, well, I think it’s still that way,

but it used to be really hard to get a job. And being bilingual was a huge

plus but most people, like, they claim to speak English but not really.

I think that the subject line was something like “When your boss finds out

you can’t really speak English, are you going to lose your job?”. I mean,

something that spoke to the pain or “Are you looking for a job? Stand out

from the competition.” Something like that. Because I knew that that was

the main reason why people were learning a second language.

Andrew: So, I guess if I were going to write it under the circumstances

that you are reaching your audience, I might say something like subject

line “You’re going to lose your job” and then in the first sentence of the

email I might then tie in how they might lose their job but they might hear

they’re going to lose your job unless they learn English or something like


Did you do anything like that because you really worked with a list that

was emailed to over and over again and you needed to do whatever you could

to get people to open it up and to really pay attention to buy from you.

Zeke: Yeah. I mean, normally what I did is try to identify the two or three

main pain points and come up with solutions to those.

So in this case [??] would have been about not being able to land a job as

the problem and learning all the skills was the solution to that problem.

So I always started the copy asking questions like “Do you feel insecure

every time you go to a job interview? Do you feel like you don’t have all

the skills required? Do you feel like other candidates are always more

qualified?” And then I had their attention and I could go on and talk about

the solution.

Andrew: How did you know that was their pain?

Zeke: Half of the time I honestly just took a guess and sometimes I tested

two different pieces of copy and one worked better than the other. And keep

in mind that I was always selling the same products. So I would rotate and

comeback to the first one again.

Andrew: Oh, I see. You had about ten different products so you were able to

do one and then try the next and then the next and the next all through the

same list and that way you can keep experimenting but also keep it fresh.

Zeke: Yeah, and something else I did that I think it’s really important for

entrepreneurs to do is for the first two months I actually delivered the

products myself. And I did this, there was a reason for this because I

could pay someone $5 an hour or less to do the delivery but I wanted to be

in touch with my customers. I wanted to know why they were buying and I got

a lot of feedback that I could use to go back and improve the copy and have


Andrew: Like what?

Zeke: Like, for example, I would just talk to them. For this course, I’ll

give it to them and ask them why they were interested in learning English

and that basically got the whole conversation started and that gave me so

many ideas to go back to the copy and perfect it for the next one.

Andrew: Oh, I see. So they tell you then that they’re worried about their

boss discovering that they don’t really speak English well and then you

included in the copy next time.

Zeke: Yeah. I’d go talk to them and they would say ‘I’m trying to find a

job and everybody speaks English but my English is very rusty so I just

want to get better. So, I knew some of the things.

Andrew: How much revenue did you earn a month on this business?

Zeke: The revenue and the profit was pretty much the same because I was

doing everything myself and the CDs were so cheap, so it was about $20,000

a month.

Andrew: And so, how much were you selling per CD?

Zeke: I was charging $25 pesos per CD which is…

Andrew: $5 bucks?

Zeke: Yeah, $5 U.S. Dollars.

Andrew: So, that’s a lot of CDs for you to be traveling around and

delivering individually one at a time.

Zeke: Yeah, and I was, I remember, like, in Argentina paying online with a

credit card is not very, well, now I think it’s more popular but back then

nobody did this. So I had to actually mail all the courses and get checks

and I would go to the post office and the lady there hated me because you

had to write so many checks. She couldn’t write a check for the whole

amount. She had to write a check for every sale so basically her, I used to

go there every Friday and she had to work only on my account every Friday.

Andrew: So, you delivered roughly 4,000 orders?

Zeke: A month. Yes.

Andrew: A month.

Zeke: Yeah.

Andrew: Argentina’s pretty big. I guess you’re doing just Buenos Aires?

Zeke: No. I was shipping all over the country.

Andrew: Oh, but you don’t go to see everybody door to door. You’re saying,

if they were available nearby, you’d go door to door to see them.

Zeke: For deliveries in…

Andrew: …doors to see them.

Zeke: For deliveries in the Buenos Aires city. I did some of those myself.

Andrew: I see. OK. I thought you were saying that you did every one of


Zeke: No, no.

Andrew: OK. All right. I thought maybe, I’m being fed some kind of a story

here. I better check this out. All right. Let’s continue then. Then you

sold the business. Why and how did you sell it?

Zeke: You know, I was never very money driven. I was making good money but

I was bored, to be honest. That’s the truth. I just wanted to move on, do

something else, something more fun.

So I told a friend of mine that I was getting really bored and he said

“Well, you know, are you making $20 grand a month. It’s a lot of money,

especially because you’re 18 years old, in Argentina, where you can go out

to a restaurant and eat for a few bucks. So it’s a lot of money and I

think, you know you shouldn’t just kill the company. I can take over, if

you want.” We worked out an arrangement where he basically gave me all the

profits for the first 12 months and then he kept all the money after that.

I already had like more money than I could spend and I always lead a very

simple lifestyle. I didn’t need more stuff. I wanted to travel but when I

travel I do love camping and I still love hostels so it’s not very


Andrew: What’s the best thing that you got yourself? The most luxurious or

more extravagant thing you got?

Zeke: You know, I don’t own a lot of stuff, to be honest. I have a really

nice computer but I like spending my money on experiences. I’ve been to all

continents on Earth. Normally, I work from January until August and then I

travel from September until December.

This year for example, my wife and I are driving all the way from the U.S.

to Argentina. And that’s a four month trip. And we’re going to hit 15 or 20

different countries. So, that’s the kind of thing we’re into. Not buying

stuff, but really spending our money on experiences.

Andrew: Who’s going to run your marketing agency while you’re away?

Zeke: Well, partially me. I’m not going to be completely disconnected. I

check my email everyday. I take a couple of phone calls but I have an

amazing team. A campaign manager, we have a really good sales person. We

have an amazing team, a web designer, a developer, a copy writer, a video

producer. So they’re really, really good at what they do. Even when I’m at

the office every day, I don’t have to micromanage them at all. They know

exactly what to do. They’re all really invested in the company. They’re all

interested in the company being very successful and servicing our clients

the best way they can so I just trust them a lot.

Andrew: All right. Here’s what I have in my notes. Soon after, you ended up

with $100,000 in debt. How? How do you go from running a business where

you’re selling CDs for $5 a pop, bringing in $20,000 a month to suddenly

$100,000 in debt?

Zeke: I think I got a little bit cocky. I thought I had all the answers and

I felt that because I did it once, I could do it again. So, I didn’t do any

market research and I started this company importing leather goods from

Argentina into the U.S. So, we created this really beautiful online store

selling handbags, jackets, and in the first three months, the website only

got one sale. And we were just spending a lot of money getting that off the


Andrew: Where did you spend the money? Was it advertising, inventory?

Zeke: You know, looking back at it, I feel like we built our business the

opposite way it should have been built. We should have tested the market

first and then grow it from there once we’ve proven the business model. But

what we did is we just hired the best photographer we could find. We got

the best products that. The thing is, I’m all for providing quality

products but we started with 300 when maybe having 20 or 30 just to test

the business model would have been more than enough.

And the other thing is I was such a perfectionist back then that everything

had to be the way I wanted it to be so for example we weren’t getting any

sales online but I was completely obsessed with the logo. I wanted it to be

perfect, like it didn’t make sense to me so I spent like, I don’t know,

maybe three or four weeks working on the logo because I wasn’t happy with

it and I couldn’t see the big picture. I mean we weren’t getting any sales

so that cost us a lot of money just being in business not selling anything

for so long.

Andrew: I’ve got tell you, I’m so glad that you’re willing to be this open.

Usually I have to spend time with guests, if you see them open at all, it’s

because I spend time with them before hand, going over things like I did

with you. I don’t know if you noticed but I was just testing the water to

see before the interview started, are you going to be OK with me bringing

up crying. I don’t know if I specifically said crying but I was testing to

see it. Usually the response I get from people is no so I feel like, you

know, ease him in to it, tell him a story of mine, get them a little bit

more comfortable and then we can go into personal stuff.

With you, you’re just going right into it and nobody wants a Zeke: who

talks about how life is great, he’s making millions of dollars, he

consistently getting customers, and he’s got five women at home who his

wife totally approves of. It’s just not an interesting story. What we want

is the reality of it, that’s why I was so obsessed with what was going on

in your head because I relate to it, I want that, I want to hear about how

you dealt with it.

So I get the idea of spending a lot of time and a lot of money on this,

spending a lot of time on even the logo, I’m looking at my notes here and

one thing that you did that did work for you was, you ended up going door

to door, that’s how desperate you were?

Zeke: So, what happened is my wife and I went to the grocery store once and

our card got rejected so we went back to the house, we checked out our

online banking and we only had $32 in the bank account and all our credit

cards were maxed out so we freaked out, like, we were, like, we had about

$50,000 worth of stock in our house, like all these handbags and jackets so

we were really desperate so it’s not like we had a choice. We just grabbed

five or six products each and back then we were living in Aspen, Colorado

and there are a lot of fashion stores so we actually sold everything. We

sold like $30,000 worth of products in a day.

So we came back home, my wife and I talked and we were like, “OK this is

where the business is.” We had to go to stores, sell directly to stores

because they have the customers. Unfortunately we were both very scared of

selling and it was kind of a last resort thing and we decided not to do it

anymore. It was very stressful for us, it wasn’t fulfilling, and my wife

kept working two jobs and I kept working on building the agency that [??].

It’s my main business now so everything happened for a reason but I feel

like as a business owner sometimes we have to say, “Look, I hate doing this

but I have to do it.” It has to be done. The same thing happened with me

when it comes to sales. I used to hate selling but now you have to do it


Andrew: I was going to say you sound like you’re a great sales person but

when you and I first talked, I don’t know how long ago, I asked you what

courses did you like and what interviews did you like? You told me the

interview is the one with Fred Bliss, who I’m looking at my notes down


Zeke: Yes.

Andrew: … on the screen, who used to sell RVs and the course that you,

the first course that you mentioned was Nicholas Holland, about how to

sell. I’m listening to you, you seem like you’re a natural sales person, I

mean, everything from selling CDs as a kid, to then going door to door.

None of this came naturally to you?

Zeke: No, I’ve always been really afraid of rejection and I even remember

back in the high school with the girls, like, I remember my friends were

basically talking to every girl and if 10 of them turned them down but the

11th said yes they were happy. To me that was like I couldn’t process

rejection so I couldn’t talk to girls and it was very painful and the same

thing happened with me when I started doing sales. I took it very personal

and it was like I didn’t know if they would like me, if they would like

what I had to offer and it was really, really nerve wrecking for me.

I was telling Jeremy, your producer, yesterday that we go to [??] through

the Website a couple of years ago, I called this guy, he heard my accent,

and he’s like, “I hate Indian telemarketers.”, and it was the most racists

comment ever. I just didn’t know what to do with that, I’m like, “Well I

have …” I told him, “Look I have a lot of friends who are Indian who are

great. I’m not even Indian and I’m not a telemarketer. I’m just [??] and I

started thinking that, you know, every, like, not every time you walk into

a store you end up buying something. Sometimes, you’re just looking around

seeing what’s out that and not every parts a right fit. So I started, like,

understanding this and not taking it, like, as a personal rejection. They

were just not interested in what I had to offer and that’s fine. So it was

kind of like a shift in mentality for me.

Andrew: Nicholas Holland did his Mixergy Premium course says you want to

turn people away. That feels like a liberating experience to not to try to

go for them but to turn them away and maybe even turn the tables and have

them want you. Is that what drew you in?

Zeke: You know, something he said is you want to go for the no and he said

the ideal outcome is a yes; the second best outcome is a no. What you

should have avoid at all costs is a maybe or, you know, if they tell you,

like, for example, like yeah I need more time to think about it. I would

say great, how much time to you need. When would you like me to follow up

with you again? Give you two weeks, four weeks? That’s fine if they need

more time to think about it but, you know, if someone says something like

you know, I have to think about it and I have this sense that their not

really interested I would just tell them look, I mean, you can tell me the

truth. If this is not something you want I don’t want to waste your time.

You know, if you want me to follow up with you in a couple of weeks, I can

definitely do that but if you’re not interested, you can let me know. I’m

not going to get upset.

Andrew: And then not getting upset is a real challenge. To not feel

deflated because of it. To not walk around wishing all kinds of things on

that person like, he’s got to get comeuppance because he said no to me.

That’s the stuff that goes on in my head.

Zeke: One of the things where you can read 1,000 books but, you know, you

have to do it a lot and it just becomes easier and easier.

Andrew: Yeah, you really do. You know I don’t want to keep tagging onto

everything you say so I’ll go onto the next question but I’m loving this

interview. Alright, the idea to do online marketing came to you when you

want to take a vacation with a couple of your friends. Can you pick up the

story from there and tell people about that?

Zeke: Yeah, definitely. So, back then I was promoting my, you know, CD-rom

company. All the courses we’re selling and two of my friends and I had been

talking about going to Brazil for a month for a summer vacation but a month

before that or two months before that they told me they were broke, they

couldn’t afford it and they wouldn’t go. So, I really, really wanted to go

with them. I had, like, a really rough year. I really needed to get out of

town. So, I’m like what if I can help you make the revenue you need to go

on the trip? They were like, OK, sure. So I, those were my two, like, first

two clients but not really. They were my friends. So, I helped them out.

They made a little bit of money and we all went to Brazil.

Andrew: But you felt confidents enough in your skills and your marketing

skills to say to these two friends I’m going to make sure that you earn

enough money from my marketing skills so that you can take this vacation?

How did you get to that confidence at that point? This is 2001.

Zeke: You know, I wasn’t really confident that I could success but they

weren’t paying me. They were my friends and I was just giving it a shot. It

worked out really well but it could have not worked out.

Andrew: What kind of things did you do for them?

Zeke: Basically I helped them communicate with their existing clients

because one of my friends was a tennis instructor and he would like, you

know, take on a new client for a couple of months then they would be gone.

He would never follow up. So we talked a little bit about how to do that.

Working on some specials and some things he could do to get people to come

back to him. The other friend was a landscaper. So I basically, I mentioned

that I felt like I always had real popular writing skills so we just, you

know, created a one page sign that he posted all over town and that got him

enough business. It was really basic stuff, you know, but they weren’t

doing it.

Andrew: Signs over all over town with the right copy write and boom, sales

come in. Not huge sales, just enough for you guys to take a little trip.

Zeke: Yeah.

Andrew: All right, then you created, you wanted to become, by the way, I

feel like I’m leading you. I should tell the audience, I’m leading because

I know where I want to go with this interview. I’m not looking for the side

conversations. I’m not looking for the what did you have for breakfast, not

that anyone talks about that. I’m not looking to be gee whiz I didn’t know

that and just, if I could do research ahead of time and know what my

audience wants, I want to go right for it. So, if it seems like it’s

scripted it’s not scripted.

What we’ve got is a good process here to make sure that by the time the

audience gets this interview, it’s all the stuff that I know that they

want. All the stuff that I know that they need. You can tell. I put no

attention into my look here. I put no attention into my mic. There are

children at home with better microphones than me. I have no interest in

getting better looking or getting better mics yet. All I want to do is

obsess on just getting the notes right, to get the right information in

this interviews for my audience. That’s why sometimes I don’t look at you

directly because I’m looking right down on my notes. Where do I want to go.

What’s key here. So, then, you had this skill and you were going to develop

it, but every time you promoted it, people accused you or called you out

for doing what? Spam.

Zeke: Yeah, so, fast forward three or four years. I realized that I could

help other companies. It was very fulfilling for me. The reward I felt from

helping my friends and their friends was really, really good. So, I decided

to build a business out of this and something I started doing is I found a

lot of business forums online and I just started posting comments.

Basically hey, this is what I do. This is what I can help you with. I’m

[??] get a really good response because I know what I’m doing and I’ve done

this before. It’s going to work really well. I did this for two or three

weeks and 90% of the emails I would get were people calling me, telling me

you’re a spammer. You’re posing this for forums and I didn’t even know that

was something I was not supposed to do. I felt they were out there. I can

use them for marketing. That’s just fine.

So, what I did is I started thinking about how can I produce value and at

the same time get my name out there and make sure the companies know what I

do so they can hire me. So, what I started doing was to create really good

content. So, I started teaching people how to do SEO, how to do social

media, how to have a comprehensive online marketing strategy, how to make

sure that your Web site converts visitors into leads or sales. I just

started giving away everything I knew and I was always on top of what was

going on and the response was phenomenal. I started landing clients, and

those were my first clients that didn’t come through referrals. So, for me

that was a huge win. It was counter intuitive because the less I tried to

sell, the more I sold.

Andrew: That is interesting. That’s actually an evolution that I’ve seen a

lot in my interviews, where people will be aggressive and aggressive and it

will work at first and then they teach and it works massively for a much

longer period of time. I’m going to come back to this concept of teaching.

The logo for this business. How long did it take you to create this logo?

You said the last one took you forever for the leather company. How about

this one.

Zeke: Ten minutes.

Andrew: Ten minutes to get your logo together.

Zeke: Yes, because I know it was going to change so if you go to the Web

site now, that’s not the one I designed. The one that we have on the Web

site looks really good. The one I put together it took me somewhere between

10 and 20 minutes.

Andrew: What about this need that here in the service business, more than

in the product business, you’re design matters. The way that you

communicate your design, your brand, tells people how much care you’re

going to put in the work you’re doing for them. Why didn’t that spook you?

Why didn’t that make you say hey, we’ve got to spend a little bit more than

ten minutes here? Maybe even ten weeks, if that’s how long it takes.

Zeke: Well, I like to think that I learn from my previous mistakes. I knew

that just being obsessive and perfectionist wasn’t going to take me

anywhere. I just had to get something out there and I understood by then a

Web site is always a work in progress. You never finish a Web site. I have

ideas to improve my Web site every single week, so you just change the

paradigm. It’s not a thing you just do once. It’s something that you have

to constantly be working on.

Andrew: All right. So, next, oh here’s the other question that came to

my mind. When you’re selling product the way that you were at 18, you just

knocked that stuff off the shelf, your business scales quickly, you not

obligated to show up at the office at the office at a certain time, life is

good. Very rarely do you see entrepreneurs going from that kind of a life

to a life where they’re in a service business where they have to do SEO

work for people, where they have to perform, where they have to deliver

result. Didn’t that bother you that you were going go into a service

business? Why weren’t you looking for a product?

Zeke: I think I did have a little bit of luck in my first couple of years

in business. I was really on, I was [??] inexperienced, I didn’t know what

I was doing. I got really lucky, I mean, I’m not going to deny that and I

spent the last, the following five years trying to replicate that with my

leather goods store and I just couldn’t pull it off. It’s not that I; I

didn’t have the knowledge I have now. I think that I, there’s no doubt that

if I started the leather goods company now it will be [??] successful.

But back then I just didn’t know how to do and I didn’t have enough money

to keep the business running but there’s this stigma about service

businesses that they’re not as good as product business but I don’t feel

that way at all. I’m a very sociable person, I love meeting with my clients

to talk about what their goals are, how we’re going to get there, their

strategies, so I mean I love what we do and I enjoy it as much as I did

selling products.

Andrew: How do you find you customers paying points now, you said that was

critical for you when you were in the CD business?

Zeke: Are you talking about existing clients and how to help them to market

themselves better to their customers or how we market to our clients?

Andrew: How you market and how you satisfy your clients? So you told me,

let’s talk about marketing first, and we’ll get to this next big leap that

you took in 2009 in a moment that’s important to talk about in this

interview but I want to understand how … one thing that worked for you

before was to say, “I’m going to talk to my customer’s, understand why they

want to learn a language, what’s so painful that they’re risking money to

an, on an Internet company at a time when people weren’t doing it and in a

culture that’s not trained to do it. I want to understand where their pain

is so that I can then talk about their pain to future customers, to talk

about pain to future customers.”

How did you do that here, or do you do that at the Outsourcing Company?

Zeke: Well, we know that most people have the same issues with their

Websites. They either not converting, they can’t be found on Google or they

don’t have a social, like a strong social media presence so those are the

three things that we help our clients with. So putting together the

marketing message for that kind of audience it wasn’t really hard because

that’s what we’ve been doing for the last six years.

Andrew: OK. So there was no research in the same way, there were no

customer conversations that way?

Zeke: Oh yes, there’s been a lot of customer conversations and we’ve

redesigned our Website at least seven times in the last seven years and

every time we try to make it better and better so yes we’re always

improving it.

Andrew: All right, back to 2009, what happened there?

Zeke: For the first eight years of my business I, I was just helping people

and our fees were fairly low and I was doing this kind of like a side thing

to pay the bills and I wasn’t really looking to grow. I was very happy with

where I was and I felt like money was never too important for me. I mean,

I’m a very competitive person don’t take me wrong but I care about other

things and I just started feeling that I can do much better than this.

I’ve done it before and I think I have the knowledge and the skills

required to grow this business so I hired my … well first I hired a

couple of freelancers to do the work because first I was doing sales and

fulfillment and then I realized I only want to be doing sales and client

management so I hired different people to do their work and finally in 2009

I hired my first time employee so we went from one and now we have eight.

So I had a conscious desire to grow two and half years ago.

Andrew: And you’ve had, and we’ll talk about the numbers there, you also

took on a big client. One that couldn’t handle its own customers.

Zeke: Yes. So we started working, isn’t it a little ironic that an SEO

agency hired us to do their SEO and the SEO for other of their clients? But

it didn’t work out really well because the kind of plans they had were too

small for us and we just, I don’t know. This guy brought this SEO agency

and they hired us to do their clients but what happened was that they had

packages for $150 a month, $200 a month and that was, because SEO back in

2005 was really easy. All you had to do was put a lot of keywords in your

pages and you’d be number 1 for everything.

But as SEO evolved, it became much more expensive to provide SEO so the

plants they were offering were no [??] competitor.

Andrew: I see, OK. And you do SEO, Search Engine Optimization. You do pay

per click management where you would buy pay per click ads for your clients

and you do social media advertising management for them too?

Zeke: Yes. [??] optimization.

Andrew: And conversion optimization?

Zeke: Yeah.

Andrew: And you have clients, who are some of your clients? You have Burger

King as a client, is that right?

Zeke: Yeah. We have a couple of big clients. We have Burger King. We have

Chevrolet. We have Subaru. But really most of our clients are in the half a

million to $20 million range.

Andrew: OK. They do half a million dollars in sales or higher and they come

to you to help them get more sales, more revenue, more customers.

Zeke: Yeah. Basically, when a company has a website that is not working for

them and is not generating enough sales or leads, that’s where we come in.

And we help our clients rank their websites [??], create a really strong

social media presence, engage their audience in a conversation that is

valuable and make sure that once we drive a lot of traffic to the website,

that that traffic converts into big customers or clients.

Andrew: OK. If those aren’t typical clients, who is a typical client?

Without mentioning the name, if you’re not comfortable. Just give me a

sense of the kind of client that’s typical.

Zeke: So, for example, I’ll give you an example of a B2B client and a B2C.

In B2B we have a pharmacy [??] consultant, back in the East Coast. He has a

staff, I think he has like 4 or 5 employees. Relatively small company. And

then we have another guy here in Colorado but sells a product that helps

with back pain. So yeah, our clients are really all over the board as far

as what kind of products and services they offer.

Andrew: All right. Two and a half years ago you lost a bunch of clients

over a six month period. It’s one of the lowest points for you in this

business, maybe even in all business. What happened there?

Zeke: What happened is we had lost, I think, it was like five or six

clients within like a two week period, two or three weeks and I was

driving, i got a phone call from our [??] but then and they cancelled

their account. And that was just too much for me to take so I had to pull

over. I just burst in tears. I just couldn’t handle it anymore. I had this

plan of the company growing, growing, growing, growing and I never took

into consideration that sometimes it takes one step back, two steps

forward, one step back. I had this idea of the company always growing and

just having those really unreleased the expectations were just killing me.

So I had a meltdown.

Andrew: Were you at the same time, was it tapping into something bigger?

Did it make you feel like ‘Oh, no. I’m back to the person who I thought,

who I used to think I was? Am I never going to make it? Was it tapping into

something beyond this?

Zeke: No. I think this last thing when it happened, I was much more mature

and I had a much stronger personality. My self-confidence levels are much,

much higher.

So, no, I didn’t feel like this is it, this is the end, I can’t pull it off

but I did feel like “Damn. I’ve been working so hard. Now we have to start

pretty much all over again” and that’s kind of the feeling I had.

Andrew: That sucks about entrepreneurship. It’s not just about work. I feel

like in so many other, like even in high school, I worked in a basement

separating hangers so someone else could put clothes on those hangers and

put them back upstairs, I don’t know, the floor, so people could by and

then, you know, those hangers end up in clutter downstairs for me to undo

it again. But, at least, I felt a sense of progress there. If I just undid

the hangers, my job was OK, I was doing alright. Here you can’t. You could

work all day and not get any progress. In fact, you can fall back. What was

I going to say about that? Why is your confidence, even as your telling me

this, you’re not sad, you’re not uncomfortable saying you cried, I’d be

uncomfortable saying I cried. You’re not uncomfortable. Where does this

confidence come from?

Zeke: You know, I don’t know if it’s so much confidence but I, you know, I

wish somebody had told me when I was like 22 years old, 23 years old; this

was going to be a lot harder. You know, when you read books, it’s like oh,

it’s all dreamy. You make all this money, you get to do what you want, you

make a lot of friends but, you know, I never read or heard about the other

part where, you know, it’s really hard, you know, it takes a lot more time

than having a regular job and, you know, sometimes you’re alone and

sometimes you have to, you know, for example, if you have employees, you

have, you can’t do this in front of them.

You have to show that you’re strong and you know what you’re doing and so

sometimes you have to, you know, cry alone or if it’s not crying, that was

the last time I cried, like two and a half years ago but even if I don’t

cry I get upset now. Like last Friday we lost a client, a big one, and that

was too much for me but I knew I had to walk away from the office, go back

home and just do a post mortem annualize what went wrong, make sure it

doesn’t happen again. So, today, well actually yesterday, I went back to

the office and I’m like OK, we’re fine, our numbers are looking really

good. Don’t worry about this. It’s just one client we lost and this is why

we lost him and let’s make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Andrew: Why, what’d you do to lose him?

Zeke: Well, he said, you know, we didn’t communicate enough. So, the

mistake we made was to assume that once a week was enough and he wanted us

to communicate, you know, like every other day or so. So now, we have a

questionnaire that we fill out every time we start a new campaign. So now

one of the questions we have is how often do you want us to send you a

status update? You know, it’s solved and there was no need to, you know,

get emotional about it and the way it seems is I just paid $10,000 to make

my company better.

Andrew: I see, that’s a great way to look at it. Let’s see, what else? You

know what? Let me talk a little bit about Mixergy Premium or ask you about

it and then we’ll get to a couple of other questions maybe about two more

including one that you thought that we should have asked you that we didn’t

ask you and one of the parts of our premium interview process is to say

what are we missing? So, Mixergy Premium actually, you’ve been a Mixergy

Premium member now, I looked before we started, for a long time, over a

year. You’re one of our best members. Why are you subscribed? Maybe that

will help the audience understand. Maybe instead of me promoting it we can

just hear why you’re a member, what you get out of it. What do you think

others can get out of it?

Zeke: Sure, sure. So, I basically, I think like Google, like entrepreneurs

interviews, yeah, interviews with entrepreneurs, something like that and

then I found you and I’m like, well, this looks really cool and you have

some, you know, you had Ranch Fish King, you had a couple of big guys up

and there and so I’m like oh, I really admire who this guy is. I’ll check

it out. I mean, it’s not [?] so if I don’t like it I can always cancel it

and what I did was I basically downloaded a lot of the interviews to my

iPhone and downloaded some courses to and I mentioned before how I work for

eight months and then I travel for four months.

So, last year I backpacked around Europe for four months so I loaded my

iPhone with like, all these interviews, courses and everything and man, I

mean I got so many great ideas. I was like working around Europe and taking

notes with my iPhone all the time and, yeah, I just, I mean, I think that

if more entrepreneurs placed more value into, you know, always learning new

things and always learning from mentors and other successful entrepreneurs,

like, everybody would be doing much better. Would have to [?] ourselves,

you know, I highly suggest that we all get mentors and people who can help


Andrew: Thank you. I’m now just not going to screw it up. All I’ll say is

go to and you get all those courses and interviews. And

if you’re not as happy, I’ give you a 100% of your money back. I want you

to be as happy and get as many results as possible. And if you don’t, I’ll

give you a full refund. Why don’t we start with what we

didn’t ask you? So, let me take a look actually here. You know what? Yes,

screw it. I was actually going to come back to something else. When we

didn’t, I’m getting a little nervous.

You know what? Here’s what I’ll say. I hear Frank Grubber, not Frank

Grubber, John Grubber of Daring Fireball, just rip on anyone he likes.

Android he feels like, he’ll take strong positions, about Apple he’ll be

really bold and aggressive. But when it comes time to talk about his own

products on camera or on a microphone, he just reads like there’s about

promoting your own stuff on your own program with a microphone that brings

out insecurities. There, and I just screwed it up. Edit that out, Joe. No,

we can’t edit it out. I got to leave it in there. What did we miss? We

missed a question here about the journey from zero to $250,000.

Zeke: Yeah. Up to $250,000 basically happened organically. I mentioned that

I started doing a little bit of social media, posting to different forums,

LinkedIn groups, I started blogging so between that and all the referrals

we were getting from happy clients, we got to 250. Now, we always place a

lot of importance in servicing our clients the best way possible. So I was

taking calls pretty much 24/7 because we had some international clients and

we were always on top of what we were doing. So we got a lot of clients

that way and I feel like some agencies and so many businesses in general

place so much more value in acquiring new businesses than they do on

servicing their existing clients. So, I think we’ve done a very good job

there with all social media. We got to about $250,000 in revenue.

Andrew: I see. I guess I didn’t understand this part right. You though it

was important to break down for the audience how some of the lessons that

you learned along the way like taking bigger risks and getting comfortable

with that, right? Can you talk about that a little?

Zeke: Yeah, yeah. So, we were at $250 in 2010. We did half a million last

year and we are right on target to hit $1.4 million this year. So. Some of

the things I did differently was, one of those was what you just said. Just

feeling more comfortable with taking risks. I was very, very risk adverse.

I was playing a game not to lose instead of to win so I finally decided to

start investing more in marketing, hire more full time employees. Because

it’s scary when you hire a new employee because you have this extra expense

and you don’t have the revenue right away. It takes a couple of months for

them to be profitable if you think of them as an investment.

I just knew that if I wanted to be where I wanted to be, I had to grow with

things. And we also started creating more partnerships with other agencies

like web design agencies that don’t do SEO or social media or traditional

marketing agencies that do radio and TV ads. And the good thing about

partnering was that all these other agencies already had really great

relationships with their clients and they were looking for someone to help

in all these different areas but they just couldn’t do themselves and they

weren’t going to ruin their reputation by doing something they didn’t know

how to do. So, it was a perfect fit and we also referred a lot of clients

to them for the things we didn’t do.

Andrew: When you have these partnerships, does money change hands or is it

just “Trust me, I’ll take good care of your customers and I’ll trust you

with my customers.” Is it that kind of relationship?

Zeke: You know, it’s about a 50-50. Some people just contact me because

they find social media under like “Hey, we need someone for SEO or social

media clients. I ain’t taking your clients.” And those people just send me

clients but then, normally when we approach someone, we have to make the

offer better so we do offer a bonus of 5% residual commission from the

clients [??].

Andrew: Five percent. How much does that add up to? If I send you a typical


Zeke: Normally the average account that we service is between $2000 and

$3000 a month. If it’s $2000, it would be $100 a month and normally only

people are clients an average of two and a half years. It could be up to

$3000 in revenue for every customer.

Andrew: What’s working for you especially well right now as far as online


Zeke: A lot of different things, really. It depends on what kind of

business you have. We have a tool set of 50 different [??] and then, what

we do is, every time we get a new prospect, we do sales very differently

than most [??] do sales. We don’t have a sales person specifically. The

sales person’s part of our whole world strategy so he comes to us, he’s

like, “Hey, I have this opportunity. What [??] would we take?” Then [??],

who’s our senior strategist and me just get together and we talk about what

would be the best way to promote that specific company and we put together

a proposal based on their needs.

Andrew: How is Facebook working for you?

Zeke: Working really well. Facebook has an amazing platform. The thing with

Facebook is once people like your page, they’re basically giving you

permission to market to them down the road. There are a lot of really cool

things that you can do to engage your audience on Facebook. It’s also

really viral, so every time someone likes you, all their friends see that,

so it spreads like wildfire. The other thing about Facebook, it has a

really amazing [??] platform that allows you to target people by how old

they are, whether they’re men or women, where they’re located, what kind of

things they like, where they work, even sexual preferences, where’d they go

to school, when they’re going to graduate, what kind of major.

Andrew: And you’re getting a good return on investment from buying those


Zeke: Amazing. Yeah.

Andrew: Amazing. Are you building the landing pages for your customers or

are they building it themselves?

Zeke: We build them, their landing pages. Unless they have one, but most

people just don’t have one and the worst thing you can do is just send

people to your homepage.

Andrew: So if I were working with you, you would help build my landing

page, you would buy my ads for me, we would talk about strategy, but you

would do most of the implementation?

Zeke: Yeah. We would define your customer personas, the kind of people that

you want to target and for each audience, we create a landing page with a

specific marketing message and then use their Facebook platform to target

the right audience in each case.

Andrew: I got two more questions. I’ve got a note here from earlier in the

interview that I forgot to come back and follow up on where you said, “I’m

a smart guy. Why is this not working for me?” Going back, why wasn’t it

working for you?

Zeke: I wasn’t trying really hard. I think I wasn’t [??] everything in my

power. I was being very passive about getting new business and there were a

lot of things I knew that I had to do, but I just wasn’t willing to do it.

Andrew: Why not?

Zeke: As an entrepreneur, you do a lot of things that are uncomfortable.

You have to constantly live out of your comfort zone. Sometimes I felt

like, for example, let’s say I had to make ten phone calls. I’ll make maybe

one and end up being so nervous that I just want to go back and watch TV or

do something else, or when I had to prioritize all the tasks that I had to

do, I always put the ones that were easy at the top instead of the most

important ones. Just because I was feeling good about getting stuff done,

but I was getting the wrong things done.

Andrew: That makes so much freakin’ sense. Final question is this. You and

I talked about having you come on to teach something on Mixergy. What do

you think the audience needs? What would you want to teach?

Zeke: What I want to teach is about link building. To give you a little

background, I think that we can all agree that getting found in Google,

being the number one company on Google for your industry is really

important. When you do search engine optimization, there are basically two

different sides to that. You have the [??] page organization, which is

where you optimize the content, the code and the meta tags on your website,

but the other part, and that’s really easy and anybody can do that, but the

other part is getting links and Facebook shares, and WeTweets. Let me

explain to you why these things are important.

Andrew: OK.

Zeke: Google does things as votes. The more votes you get the better you’re

going to rank. The more links you have from other websites linking to your

site, the more Facebook share you have and the more WeTweets you have, the

better you’re going to rank on Google. Most people have no idea how to do

this. The top SU experts in the world all agreed that getting the right

kind of links pointed to your site is the number one ranking factor.

Meaning that if you have everything else in order but if you don’t have

enough links, you’re not going to rank at the top of Google for anything.

Andrew: Link building is one of the top, most requested courses. I think I

might have told you, that I haven’t found the right person to teach it

because it’s important and it’s got to be done right. I’d love to have you

come on and teach it. Let me as you this concern, a lot of times I hear is

just so much work that it then becomes a whole other job for someone who’s

trying to do this. If we’re running a business we can’t also run the

business of getting links. Can we? How do we do that?

Zeke: Link building is time consuming.

Andrew: Very.

Zeke: Right. It’s time consuming. That’s a fact. Now, what you have ask

yourself is what’s the value of being number one in Google because your

phone is going to start ringing, you’re going to start getting a lot more

clients, so that makes sense to spend two or four a week getting links. In

the course I’m going to show you a lot of really good tools that without

these tools it could easily be a full time job just to build tools. But,

with all the right tools and the right techniques most websites can get

away with two to three hours a week of link building. That would be enough

to get into the top of Google.

Andrew: All right. We’re going to go through this process again, a process

similar to the one that you took to set up this interview except more

intense, and we’ll put together a course with you. I’m glad that you’re

willing to do that. First we’ll post this interview and I’ll say this, the

website is Is that the best place for people to


Zeke: Yes.

Andrew: OK. and I think that’s pretty much it.

Anything else that they can do if they want to connect with you? I’m

looking to see in my notes if there’s some way for them to connect with you

directly. I actually see your email address, your phone number, your Skype,

but none of those are good. What’s a good way for people to connect with

you to maybe say thank you for doing this interview?

Zeke: Well, I can give everybody my cell phone number.

Andrew: You’re going to give them the cell phone number in this interview?

Zeke: Yeah.

Andrew: OK. Did you just call me out of the blue by the way? That is how it

happened, right?

Zeke: Yeah. I searched Mixergy contact information and I found your phone


Andrew: And you just called me, and you ended up on my cell phone. But

you’re willing to give your cell phone and just have people call you out of

the blue. All right.

Zeke: Yeah. If they want to talk about their online marketing strategies

and how to use websites to get more traffic and business. That’s what we


Andrew: But you know what’s going to happen, you’re going to end up with, I

don’t know that you should this, you’re going to end up with people who

aren’t the typical client. Who aren’t the guys who have half a million in

revenue, who are your ideal customer. I think you should have another way

for people to contact you but it’s up to you.

Zeke: OK. I’ll give both my email address and phone number. Every months,

this is something that I decided five years ago, every month I spend ten

hours a month doing free work for companies that can’t afford us. I do this

because I think that when I was getting started I wanted someone to help me

but nobody was willing to. So I’ll talk to whoever contacts me about but

yeah, if you ask me simple questions I’ll be more than happy to help.

Andrew: All right.

A: So, my email address, and that’s really the best way to get a hold of

me, it’s Zeke, and that’s Z-E-K-E,

Andrew: All right. Let me say this before you say your phone number, let me

suggest this. Let me put it on the website instead of in the interview. I

can delete it off the website if you change your mind but I can’t remove it

from the interview. Does that sound good?

Zeke: Yeah, and if you go to the website you can find it there.

Andrew: OK. And they can fin it. Even better, go to and you can get Zeke’s phone number. Zeke is a

great guy. I hope you get to talk to him and I’m glad that he’s open to it.

I just also want to give you a way out if it doesn’t work out.

Zeke: Yeah.

Andrew: All right. Well I’m glad that you and I got to meet. I’m so proud

to have you in my audience. When I do this it’s really easy to go for the

cheap audience, the ones that are easy to get with either slamming

competitors or by offering riches overnight. There are ways to get a big

audience. We’re putting a lot of cat photos up on the site and that just

never appealed to me. What does appeal to me is the idea that the people in

my audience are people who I care about, are people who I’m fascinated

about. That when you call me if you say you’re in my audience I feel like,

all right, we’ve got something in common.

I’m going to be interested frankly, especially premium members because it

feels like you’re really taking your business a little bit more seriously

than the average person. Anyway. I end up not doing especially well at

communicating when I’m especially proud. I’ve got to work on that. I’ve

struggled a little bit, maybe talked a little bit too much in this

interview because I’m proud to have had you in my audience, and proud to

now call you a friend and Zeke: Thanks for doing this interview.

Zeke: Yeah. You’re very welcome and I think you shouldn’t be ashamed of

talking about Mixergy. It’s a great website with a lot of really good

content that has helped and will help more entrepreneurs, so I think you

should be very proud of what you built.

Andrew: Thank you. Yeah, I am. And increasingly more so. All right. Thanks,

bud. Thank you all for watching. Bye.

  • Interesting..

    Andrew, do you expect non-premium members to achieve similar or better results?

  • I’d love to say that you couldn’t do this without being a Premium member, but you’re smart enough to know that would be bull.

    Anyone can do what he did.

    Mixergy Premium will just help you get there faster.

  • Great interview Andrew and very inspirational as well. It’s very easy to relate to Zeke’s path as an entrepreneur: full of ups and downs! I’m really looking forward to the Link Building course, as it’s what I most struggle with when it comes to SEO. Thanks for putting up such amazing content!

  • Martin Ramirez

    Are you actually going to do a link building course? 

  • Makes sense..

    BTW, I emailed you a couple of weeks ago when I subbed to your list, and didn’t get any reply. :(

  • Do you want us to?

    What do you want it to cover?

  • Really? What’d you email about?

    The best way to reach me (and the team) is:
    I’m shutting down my person email and replacing it with that group-email.

  • excellent interview very inspiring

  • This is a good idea for Mixergy

  • Antonio Centeno

    That’s the whole reason I am a Mixergy Premium member – not that the free interviews aren’t great (The best in my opinion are in the archives!) but that by paying out a small bit of money I force myself to ACT on the lessons/course instead of being PASSIVE and just listening.  When you spend money – you act on it!

  • great interview. I liked when he said he wouldn’t be too proactive, this is the mistake I was making and now I try to meet with someone every day and more often than not i turns into new business for my seo agency. 

  • Zeke thank you for being so open about your journey. It was very helpful to hear everything. This interview was great!

  • Frank Bonetti

    Man… these interviews are like group therapy to me :) I love hearing these inspiring stories.

  • Would love to see one on Link Building. Purchased One from AppSumo called Link Builder from Wordtracker and its only ok. With all Googles recent changes would love to hear good tactics on how to get premium links back.  

  • Anonymous

    It’s definitely the number one thing i’m hoping Mixergy does in the next few months. 

    Specifically i’d like to know about the most efficient, cost effective way to do it. Is it guest posting? How cheaply can i get that done if i’m gonna outsource it? Are there other ways? etc.

    Efficiency is definitely the big thing with link building for me personally.

  •  I have sent an email again. :)

  • I’m really glad you liked it, guys. I look forward to doing the link building course here on Mixergy. It’s going to be amazing!

    Zeke Camusio

  • Guys, if you want to post your websites here, I’ll make sure to cover link building tactics that are relevant to YOUR business.

  • Mariana Park

    Awesome interview, really inspiring! Loving Mixergy :).

  • Great interview, Zeke is just sharing the love with his great insight… Love it!

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  • Jordan

    Zeke – It’s people like you that we want running the “corporate” world. You make me want to be a better person, build a more genuine business and give back however I can. Thanks!

  • Thanks, Zeke, for sharing your story.  I am looking forward to the link building course.  I would like it to cover what the new “rules” are after the Penguin update.  What works now? Is article marketing on article directories now a waste of valuable time? Do link wheels still work?  Does ethical article spinning still work? (meaning actually taking the time to make your spun articles read well) Pat Flynn on has done this to apparent good effect before the Penguin update. Will it continue to work?

    Thanks for creating this valuable site, Andrew! I am about to launch my own interview series on my site.  I appreciate your example and your openness.

    (Wish me luck!)

  •  Zeke,  I replied above before I saw this.  My website is  I would appreciate your review.

  • Zeke thanks for sharing your experience with us. (<<<--- YOU ROCK BALLS for being willing to share intimate stuff). Andrew you missed the mark on this interview I was looking for specifics on how Zeke took tactics and strategies from your interviews and course and applied them to his business. Please incorporate this to the next one you do with your premium subscribers (<<<--- of which I am a life long member)

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  • Zeke, thanks for being so open and for sharing your story! It’s a wonderful and very useful interview!

    Andrew, I’m so grateful you asked that question in the end from your notes, about when Zeke said “I’m a smart guy, why is it not working for me?”. I resonated with Zeke’s answer. For the first time it hit me, that whenever things did not work out for me in the past, invariably I was not trying hard enough. And whenever things worked out, it was because I took “massive action”, as Tony Robbins calls it…

    What I take away from this is – nobody is born “good enough” – we become good enough by putting heart, sweat and unwavering determination into what we do.

  • Zeke!

    Andrew gave me a heads up to check out your interview, I’m so glad I found it.  I just want to thank you for seeing past my interview imperfections and drawing something out of my own personal experience.  On top of that, you’re absolutely killing it with your company… congratulations to you, please feel free to reach out to me, I’d like to talk to you, because clearly, you’re very good at extracting information, applying it regularly and turning that into results.  I have much to learn from you! 

  • Thanks.

  • I was going to burn out if I kept answering all that email. It started taking over 7 hours every day.

  • Thank you.

  • What’s missing from it, Mike.

  • I’m glad the personal part of the conversations are resonating. I don’t see much talk about it on other sites, but I think it’s important.

    Sent from Gmail Mobile


  • Hi Andrew, I actually came over to Mixergy after watching you on This Week In Start Ups recently.  I have to say I am surprised that you are going after an entrepreneurs “feelings” more than actual subject material and substantive industry advice ( I just finished watching Deiss and Rich Happy Hot as well ).  I’ve noticed that you have a tendency to maybe be a bit too self deprecating.  As Zeke mentioned in the interview, you shouldn’t be ashamed for selling your product if you believe in it.  I would suggest you read and re-read 2 books that helped shape my own life and identity – 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey and Learned Optimism by Upenn researcher Martin Seligman.  Covey talks to the “Impostor” feelings you brought up in Rich Happy ( Possession Centered versus Principle Centered life ) and Seligman touches on framing how you talk about yourself and external events ( the words you use to describe yourself and events effects the level of happiness and feelings of success in your own life).  And last point, I don’t understand why you fixate on your looks so much – I think most people would agree you are a good looking guy!

  • Martin Ramirez

    It’s kinda of embarrassing, but I don’t really know anything about link building. Only that you need to get links.  

  • Glad you said that.

  • Thanks for finding me.

    I agree with you that I’m being too self-deprecating. To be honest, I started doing it when I was new to video interviews. I used to find myself getting nervous or feeling like I screwed up and I wouldn’t know how to handle it on camera. So I decided to just be open about it. But somehow that openness developed into a habit of calling out my perceived flaws. I’m working on it.

    As for my looks, I think I can do better with the way I look on camera. It’s not bad, but I just don’t feel like it’s how I really look.

    Finally, you mentioned my interest in founders’ feelings. It’s an important topic that I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere else so I’m going to tackle it. Think about all the time you wasted when you were insecure or worried. Think about all the mistakes you made when you lacked confidence. Those seemingly touchy-feely concepts have HUGE impact on your life. So I need to bring them up.

  • The layout is not the best. Once you’ve paid for membership I’m still be shown videos on the power of being a member. I was sold on it already and really just want the “meat” on what to do next. Layout isn’t the best and really I’d recommend a series of videos on each step to take so I can have one of my team members follow along.  See you started another thread on this and look forward to your interview on it. We’re probably just going to hire someone from to tackle it for us, makes more sense. 

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Who should we feature on Mixergy? Let us know who you think would make a great interviewee.