“I make $4.5 million implementing AI”

Andrew Warner: How much money are you making?

Jon Cheney: We’re sitting at about four and a half million in annual recurring. I started this business with just $400 as a one man band. I was able to take it by myself with all of my AI tools to a million bucks. Let me just tell you exactly how to do this right? Everyone’s looking for, well, what do I do?

How do I do it? Here’s my process

Andrew Warner: presented by Zapier, the AI automation company. John, do you remember when you’d reached a million dollars in revenue?

Jon Cheney: I was like, man, I am. I, I took this to a million dollars by myself, and it was at that moment actually, I was like, okay, I actually, I, I, I have enough budget to bring some people on, and so I’m gonna do that and make my life a little bit easier.

And it kind of snuck up on me. When I first started the company, there were, um, some pathways that I kind of went down that didn’t work as well as others, and I eventually found out okay. Companies really need not just some training and education and show them what to do. They need somebody that is embedded into their company that is following up regularly and becoming part of that company.

And so I built this fractional chief AI officer model. And the cool thing about that, and then I knew as an entrepreneur was super valuable, was this recurring revenue element, right? And so, um, at, at one point we hit the million dollars, and by we, I mean me, I hit this million dollars. Uh, and it was fun. It was fun.

It was, you know, that was about 80,000, 90,000 a month. Um, and it was actually, I got to 110,000 a month, so it was a little bit over that million dollars.

Andrew Warner: I took my family when I had a million dollars to get ice cream sundaes. I remember that. Do you do anything like that to celebrate?

Jon Cheney: You know, what I started doing is I started buying myself a pair of shoes.

Every time I landed a new contract, I was like, these are a hundred thousand plus dollar contracts. Each one I can afford $200 shoes or whatever. And so I, I, I filled my closet and I, I, I actually stopped doing that ’cause I was like, I have enough shoes at this point. Like, I’d love, I’d love shoes, but you know, I don’t need to have 400 pairs.

Andrew Warner: And by the way, for anyone who wants to follow along and build this type of business, we’ll have a playbook in the comments along with all the tools and apps and software that John recommends. See it below. It all started because you said, you know what? I have an idea for a social network. I’m gonna go and hire this agency in the Ukraine.

What was the price they quoted you?

Jon Cheney: $105,000.

Andrew Warner: Okay. And then you discovered that you could do this yourself using AI tools specifically Rept. How did you discover Rept?

Jon Cheney: I discovered Rep wit, because I don’t even remember who it was. I wish I could give them credit, but somebody posted about it on LinkedIn.

It was some BC and they said, I just watched a founder, you know, put together this website and this new thing in like 10 minutes. Something that would’ve taken months before. And you know, using Rep, it was like, what does that mean? And it was literally the same day I had received this proposal from this dev shop outta Ukraine for $105,000.

They had actually sent over, we’d already done some architecture discussions and they’d sent over a PDF with a proposal about here’s how we’re gonna build the whole thing. And so I was like. I wonder if I could just drop this PDF into rept. So I just drag it in and said, build this, and 10 minutes later I had, you know, at least the first version of that preview.

Andrew Warner: When you’re talking about a social network, you just gave it the, the same request that you had to the developers and the whole thing. It wasn’t a one shot thing. You’re sitting down and you’re massaging it and adjusting it. Right.

Jon Cheney: Yeah, yeah. The, the very first thing, at least back then, today, if I gave it to rep, I think it could actually, one shot it.

Interesting. But back then, this was, you know, probably about 18 months ago, maybe even a little bit longer than that, I, I wanna say September of a couple years ago, whatever that comes out to. So probably a little longer than 18 months. But bottom line is, um, they, um, it, it was able to. Bring up and say, Hey, here’s, here’s your world map.

And my, my idea was I wanted to, I, I love to travel, right? Yeah. And I wanted to just have a better way to share where I’ve traveled. And so I wanted kind of a digital pinboard, a map of the world where I could then just drop a pin and then I could record everything I did and have pictures and video and share, and I could see where other people have been, and just have that visual interface.

And so that was the idea. And um, and yeah, it took me, it took me, you know, a few minutes to get to the first like, Hey, I’ve got a screen. Wow. That’s cool. Well. Can I make login work? Yep. Let me build that. And then login worked and I was like, I’ve never done that before. This is my first experience vibe coding.

And, and all of a sudden, you know, 12 hours later probably I had something that actually worked.

Andrew Warner: That’s one of the amazing things about it. Like unlike I love Cloud Code and all these other tools, but unlike that, you just get to see it immediately on your screen as you’re asking for it with rept and tools like that.

Um, the thing that I wonder though, is. Why didn’t you say, okay, I know how to build this thing. I’m gonna continue with the idea. Why’d you decide I’m going to help other people learn these tools instead of using it yourself?

Jon Cheney: It was so transformational for me as an entrepreneur. I had to raise money to start my first startup back in 2016, and I hated that process.

I raised $13 million. I got good at it. Right. And. I hated having, you know, 50 people breathing down my neck saying, Hey, how’s it going? Right? Or, I don’t like that you’d made that decision. Or some people, you know, some, it’s not all bad, right? For sure. But I loved that. All of a sudden I was enabled to bring to life any idea I could with almost no risk.

Andrew Warner: But I, I still don’t understand then why not build this social network thing that you had in mind? Instead of building this for other people,

Jon Cheney: I went down this vibe coating kind of rabbit hole. After I built this first thing called Echoes is what I called the app, was the, you know, memories of the past, right?

Um, so anyway, this Echoes app was cool, but then I said, oh, I wonder if I could do this. I wonder if I could do this. And so I ended up, I, you know, a few months later I built 20 apps and, and uh, and then people started asking me, Hey, could you help me do stuff, whatever. And I said, Hey, if you tried this. And, you know, I was able to do things for them so much faster.

And I realized that there was an opportunity there. And then it just kind of, this just kind of happened.

Andrew Warner: How did you figure out the first thing to sell though?

Jon Cheney: You know, I had a conversation with AI about it.

Andrew Warner: Seriously.

Jon Cheney: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that’s what I, that’s what I do. A lot of people, they’ll go directly to Rept and just say, I have an idea.

I wanna start building it. That’s a great way to waste a lot of tokens that are more expensive. Right. Go to Chad CPT first. Go to Claude. Mm-hmm. Whatever you want. Mm-hmm. Pick your, pick your LLM of choice and say, I’ve got this idea. I want you to work through it with me. Okay. Ask me questions, interview me about it.

You ask the AI to interview you about it, right? And, and then, you know, I, I spent two or three hours just talking to it and, and I said, you know what? I think, I think this is the direction I wanna go. Um, you know, help me put together a big business plan and, you know, plan to do all this. And so then I take a 2000 word business plan that has important things in it that a lot of people forget.

Monetization strategy, marketing plan, growth plans, things like that. AI can do incredible things, but a lot of times it has to fill in the gaps. Mm-hmm. That you need it. Right. So if you say, Hey, I wanna build a social network for, you know, moms that mm-hmm. You know, single moms that whatever. Okay, cool. They want to connect with each other and figure out how to be a better mom.

Well. That’s where people go and then they don’t, they don’t worry about all those other things until they’ve built the platform. But the reality is, if you’re gonna be a subscription model, or if you’re gonna be a referral model, or if you’re gonna have some other thing, you actually would build the app totally differently.

If you understood how things, you know, you might place a button differently. You might emphasize, Hey, sign up here, sign up now. Do this. You know, or you might limit capabilities until you sign up. There’s all kinds of decisions that you might make. Later on that are way better to do from the very beginning.

And so making that full plan first before you drop it into rep put, that’s where magic happens.

Andrew Warner: Okay. And so you went back to it to Cha pt and you started asking it, what should I do? What’s the model that you came up with as V one?

Jon Cheney: What, what my original model actually, the, the goal was to be totally self sustained.

I wasn’t, this was gonna be a side thing that just printed money for me. Uhhuh, right? I was gonna be able to sleep and it just makes money uhhuh and it didn’t turn out that way. But the idea was, you know, have you ever taken an IQ test online, Andrew?

Andrew Warner: I’m not one of these leather of tests. Fair enough. I can see that you are, and there other people are, but talk to me about this.

Jon Cheney: So, IQ tests, I don’t know, maybe I’m just conceited and I wanna see how smart I am. I don’t know what it is, but, but when I see IQ tests online, I wanna say, Hey, I wonder how smart I am. So I click on it and you go through it and you’ll spend 10 minutes, or 20 minutes or five minutes, you know, doing the test.

And invariably at the end of each of these they say, Hey, you did great to see your score. Pay 3 99, you know, or pay this sign up for our service, whatever. Anyway, so that’s how they kind of pull you in, right? And you’ve already put in the effort. You want to know, you think you did pretty good and so you wanna see what your score is.

And so I said, I’m gonna follow that kind of model. I’m gonna do an AI IQ test. Okay? I called it an IQ test. And so, uh, so they would, they would land on the site. They would, they would take this free test and instead of charging ’em 3 99 or something, they just said, all you gotta do is put your email address in and I’ll tell you your score.

Okay. And then depending on their score, it would, the system would then go one of two directions. One it if you did well, hey, great. Take our official test. It’s $39 or $59. I don’t remember what I charged. Uh, and, and then you’ll get an official certification from the General AI Proficiency Institute.

Mm-hmm. I was a very official name, you know, and, and that was part of the strategy that I worked out. I said, Hey, I want this to feel like a standard, like we’re the new SAT, we’re the new a CT, we’re the new whatever. Right? So. And then if they did poorly. There were gonna be courses that they could take. So whether they did poor or or you know, or, or they did great.

I had a monetization plan for them and this was gonna be totally automated. It was gonna deliver the certificates automatically if they were great. The courses were all set up in a way that could be self-administered. You could do it on your own pace and, and I was just gonna sit back and rake in the cash.

That was, and

Andrew Warner: you know what, and to some degree this is still on your site. I see on your site that for, I think it’s like $59, I can purchase a certification that I can put on my LinkedIn account. You still have courses. The courses from what I could tell, are either live or, or prerecorded, right?

Jon Cheney: Yes.

Andrew Warner: So this part worked.

Is that where you got your first dollar?

Jon Cheney: It wasn’t. It wasn’t. So I. Spent. So when I did this, I actually, I wasn’t even planning on doing this. This business was an accident. Mm-hmm. So one thing that I do a lot is I post on LinkedIn and I post on things, but LinkedIn’s kinda my main platform and every single day for years and years and years, I have not missed a day.

And I post, but, but I don’t have AI help me with this. This is something that I just, what am I thinking about today? I wanna talk about it and I’ll post about all kinds of stuff

Andrew Warner: I’ve seen. There’s like a post about ducks on there.

Jon Cheney: There’s a post about ducks on there from last Saturday. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Saturday I step away from AI and I live on my farm, but mm-hmm. Um, but I, I got up that Thursday morning, it was February 27th, I remember it, and I’ve gone back and looked at the dates and the posts, whatever, and I said, Hey, you know what? I’ve got an idea. I, I’ve gotten pretty good at vibe coding. I wonder if I.

Start a business today. Come up with the idea. I didn’t have this idea yet. I hadn’t had that conversation with Chad PT yet. I, I knew that I had this kind of, Hey, I can help with AI stuff, but I didn’t, I didn’t have a business model or anything around it, but I said, can I start it today? And get my first paying customer by tomorrow.

That was the goal, right? Mm-hmm. You know, two day business, right? Which, which norm, which used to be a, a very long process, especially if it involves software. I just said, I wonder if I can do it. So I posted, I said, I’ll keep you guys in the loop. And so I kept posting throughout the day. Here’s where I am.

So I’m doing, took me three days, took me three days to do it. So it took me a little bit longer than the two days I wanted, but just barely. But I spent about 12 hours a day. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Saturday at 3:00 AM I’m done. I’m like, okay. I think I can do this, and in all the time where I’m waiting for my Vibe, code, or rept to do whatever I am setting up the LLCI set up the bank account.

I threw money in it. I set up my Facebook and X page and Instagram page and all the socials, and I made it look like General AI Proficiency Institute is a trusted place to buy something from. I wanted a complete picture. What I tell people in my course when I teach people about stuff like this and is I wanted to make sure that my potential customers didn’t get any paper cuts, right?

Just that, oh, that link doesn’t work. Or, oh, they don’t have a social page, they don’t have a presence or something doesn’t work. You know, I wanted to make sure everything worked, that they weren’t ever gonna be like, ah, this feels like a scam. You know, I don’t, I didn’t want that. I wanted it to feel very, very official and I wanted to do it well.

But I launched Facebook ads 3:00 AM Saturday night. I had all this stuff I had set up. I built used AI to build all these ads and everything. I had it all ready to go. Pushed go, went to sleep, got up Sunday. I don’t work Sundays. And you know, went to church and took a nap ’cause I was tired, slept properly for four hours that day and then just kind of let it, let it flow.

And then Monday morning get up and I go to check to see how many sales I’d made. I was so excited. Right. And I had 140 people had clicked on the link and visited the site and started the test. Right. It was, it was good. Right. Um, and I had zero sales. I was like, what the heck, man? Like, I, I swear I did this right?

Like there. Anyway, so I went in and I figured out I had misconfigured stripe, and so I was like, ah, you know, so I post, I, I’m keeping people up to date on LinkedIn, like, Hey, you know, I don’t have my first customer yet, but I’m gonna get it today. And I’m like, you know what? I’m a sales guy. I can do this.

And so I just jumped on LinkedIn and started messaging some people and eventually, you know, that that same day had A-C-E-O-A local CEO that I didn’t know really well, but we kind of had crossed paths a couple times. So it was Uhhuh. I would call it a lukewarm lead. Um, and uh, and I said, Hey, I wanna help your company figure out, you know, all your employees figure out ai, I wanna see how good they are, and then make sure they, you know, get ’em up to speed.

And he said, we need this, this is awesome. And so he jumped on a call and by the end of the call I had a $15,000 contract. Those were my first dollars.

Andrew Warner: So wasn’t even somebody going through your test and then at the end signing up for the certification or anything? It was you testing his people and then teaching his people ai.

Jon Cheney: Exactly

Andrew Warner: what, what about ai? AI is such a big thing. Is it like, how do you prompt chat GPT with questions? Is it, how do you build with rep lit? It’s a, it’s a company with multiple people. How can you teach one thing?

Jon Cheney: Yeah. You know, there, there are principles. There are principles that mm-hmm. That are, that are good.

It’s learning how to think differently. That’s what I really like to focus on, is, you know, how do you approach, like today there’s a concept of like throwaway software. Like you can literally vibe code a solution. Like so you might have a task that was gonna take you six hours. But instead you could take 30 minutes and vibe code a tool that will do that task for you.

And you may never use that piece of software again. Right. But you wouldn’t think like that back in 2020, right? Or before Vibe coating was a thing right? Back when I started my company in 2016, that was not an option for me, and most people have no idea that AI is capable of just whipping something up quickly that can actually execute on things and build stuff and do incredible things like that.

And so learning, learning how to think a little bit differently, how to approach problems. There’s principles like throwaway software or even even just a very simple thing, like I mentioned earlier, have AI interview you, right? That’s a great skill that a lot of people haven’t thought of, right? That helps you really flesh out an idea and ensures that you stay in control and your AI doesn’t go off on some tangent on its own.

Andrew Warner: And so were you also teaching software or just big concepts like this and then letting them know there’s software to implement it with?

Jon Cheney: I don’t like the big concept teachers. Right,

Andrew Warner: okay.

Jon Cheney: There’s plenty of ’em out there. I don’t think they’re bad. I just don’t. Think it’s very valuable. What I like to do is we’ll touch on a big thing, but then we’re gonna go practical and into a piece of software, right?

And I’ll say, yeah, you could use this. You know, we, we might use chat GBT, but you could do this with GR or with Claw, or with, you know, deep seek, whatever the heck you want. There’s a lot of different options out there, but these principles apply across all these things. Now. Let’s try it. Everybody take five minutes and have a conversation with your AI about this.

Great. What did, how did that work? What did you guys run into? You know, I, I am a, I’m a practical teacher. I want people to come away knowing, okay, I can do this now, not just, oh yeah, AI seems cool.

Andrew Warner: Interesting. And so was there a specific tool that you were teaching this with

Jon Cheney: usually Chat, GPT, right?

Andrew Warner: Chat, GPT.

Wait, so if you’re telling them throw away software chat, GPT couldn’t back then. I don’t even know if now the, if the chat couldn’t create software. So,

Jon Cheney: but, but I would, but I’m always starting there, right? JGBT is the first thing that you want to learn for most people, right? And again, pick your, pick your LLM if you, you swap that out.

Mm-hmm. But, but the bottom line is you need to learn how to talk to AI before you go getting crazy with rep lit or some other vibe coding software or something like that. Right. And so we always start there, but yes, when I was, when I was ready to, you know, dive in and, and say, all right, we’re gonna build throwaway software.

Here’s the tool that I like. Let’s, let’s everybody pull up your account. I would make people sign up for an account, right? If I’m there, I’m like, sign up for an account right now. Pay 20 bucks, get in and let’s do this.

Andrew Warner: You know, it’s so shocking that that $20 signup is a barrier, but I almost feel like it’s the difference between buying CDs at a record store versus just listening on Spotify.

Even if it is just $2 for a cd, there’s a hesitation. There’s a moment of thinking versus on Spotify, you go, okay, I just heard John say that he has, and you do have music on Spotify. I can just go find his music on Spotify, hit play and sample it. And, um. And at this point still software to really get the right experience, you do have to pay.

Repla does have a free plan. It is as generous, I think, as they could be, but honestly, you’re not gonna get enough of it until you pay. Same thing with all the other tools. Alright, fair point. I like, I like this. Lemme see if I’m putting together a playbook based on John’s experience. Here’s what I’m getting.

Number one. Number one. Um. Get interviewed by an AI to think through where this business can go. Maybe even understand what your strengths are so that you can find a business that jives with you and think through where it’s going before you get started. Number two. Um, I, I actually think my second thing would be go on LinkedIn or somewhere where I know people and just try to sell it directly to them.

The whole Facebook ad thing. Maybe it’s a gift that it didn’t work out for you because you got more feedback and you were able to shift the business towards something that’s much more profitable than if you were selling this other thing. Um, number three, keep it simple. Try to earn money very quickly.

And then number four, I like this. Maybe this is more unique to your playbook, which is. Teach the big ideas, not the, not the tactics today. So the big ideas are throwaway software, and then the tactics today just undergird it. And that might be something like, I’m gonna show you how to create a throwaway plugin for Chrome using Claude code.

You’re gonna install or Claude the, the actual app itself. Okay. Am I with you so far?

Jon Cheney: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. I, I, one of the things that I think is, is crazy, just to go back to something you said a moment ago about, about the $20. Uh, everyone wants to be an entrepreneur, right? Everyone’s got a business idea.

They watch, watch Shark Tank, and it’s, you know, it’s, it’s fun, right? Oh, I could do that. That’s so awesome. Right? And then you won’t pay 20 bucks, like, right. I, I, I paid, I paid. A hundred thousand dollars plus times 60 engineers for my last company that I started. Right. And that’s why I had to go raise millions and millions of dollars.

And so I have never looked at a rep bill and even been like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe I paid.

Andrew Warner: I know.

Jon Cheney: Like it’s, it’s like this is free to me. Like anybody can make this. At Super Cuts or, you know, go DoorDash for a couple days and you have your, you’ve got your seed money, you’re ready to go.

Andrew Warner: It’s truthfully, it’s not even that much money for people.

There’s just a barrier. Now I’ve gotta put my credit card in. Maybe it’s gonna be a subscription. It’s all that stuff. Um, which is why later on I do want to go through some software that does work for you. But why don’t we take a moment to actually and talk about one software. We both like Zapier. I usually talk about my sponsor right now.

But as somebody who has experience with this, do you wanna talk about what your experience is with Zapier instead?

Jon Cheney: Yeah. For those of you who don’t know Zapier, it’s, it’s, it’s a connector, right? It connects one thing to another thing, right? Maybe you’ve got an idea, maybe you want help with your social media posting for your business, right?

Mm-hmm. And you say, okay, we can do this. Um, well, we gotta just think through the process. Well, we gotta get, we gotta get everything to, you know, Facebook, Instagram, whatever. And there’s tools out there, there’s great tools out there that you can, you can find that, that will auto post for you. Mm-hmm. But. We gotta send something to that.

Right? Okay. Well, Zapier can connect those things for you, right? Maybe you want to drop things into a Google drive, and then that Google Drive connects to Zapier through a Zap like they have right there. Mm-hmm. And it will automatically set that, that connection up for you. You don’t have to be technical, it’s, it’s for, it’s for people like me, by the way.

I don’t know how to code. Right. Um, for people like me that want to get in and do some, you know, create crazy, you know, um, automations, right. And figure that out. Now we gotta go a step back further, right? How, how are we gonna get content into Google Drive? Well, maybe you use something like Rept and Zapier together to have it use an AI to autogenerate content, and then auto create a a, an image with nano banana using Google’s image tool, and then connect those and automatically send that to a Google Drive that’s connected via Zapier.

Over to the, you know, Hootsuite or whatever, you know, system you’re using to push that out to social media. And so boom, now you have a business automation system that you can put together in a few hours.

Andrew Warner: I’ve talked to an entrepreneur who built his whole business very similar to yours, but largely he’s using Zapier because he can, he finds it with Zapier today.

You can also create agents, so you tell the agent what you want it to do, and it does it reliably with guardrails because they’re, they are an enterprise level company or with Zapier today, you can keep it as simple as, um, saying, I’m going to use Claude, but Claude doesn’t have enough connectors, and the connectors it has, I wanna give it.

Specific rules on what it can do and what it can’t do with it. Zapier gives, uh, whatever tool you’re using up to eight. No, actually at this point it’s almost 10,000 different apps you can connect with. Alright, so go to Zapier and let’s continue on with this story. Um, at that point, did you shift your business completely and say, I’m no longer in the IQ test for ai, I am now in the business of helping enterprise, even if it’s mid-size companies, um, learn or teach their people ai.

Is that what you did?

Jon Cheney: Yes and no. And here’s where, okay. My bus, my original business plan served me well because I became, or, or I had, I had built this image of. I am the General AI Proficiency Institute, and not only that, I’m a.org, right? And there’s just this added level of trust to a.org and an institute and whatever, and it enabled me to get the big deals with businesses.

They said, oh, well you obviously are an institute. I mean, yeah, we’d love to work with you. I mean, I got those kinds of things. I had governments from Australia reach out to me and say, Hey, seems like you’re the worldwide standard on this. You know, can you, can you, you know, assess all of our people? And I’m like, absolutely I can.

Right. And I’d never done that before for government. But yeah, that, I mean, that’s part of my, you

Andrew Warner: told, yeah. I’ve gotta say this to you.

Jon Cheney: Yeah.

Andrew Warner: When I first heard about you, I didn’t even realize that it was you that, um, um. That was on, that was mentioned on Joe Rogan. Yeah. But when I first heard about you and understood your business, I expected to find some sheisty looking online education site.

Then I hit your site and it has such a good feel to it that it does communicate like trust and like, like you said, like a nonprofit vibe to it. But at the same time I see that it’s a real company. It’s, it’s all design. Does Repla do that? Do that too? Or is this your taste?

Jon Cheney: I mean, that, that site, that site is completely designed in Repli.

It is hosted by Repli. Like I, I’m using nothing else outside of that to make that happen.

Andrew Warner: Wow. Yeah. That is such, it’s such a good site that elevates your brand instead of, you know, making it look like, like another education site. But that still doesn’t mean that people are gonna come to you and say, you know what?

We’re, we’re a government agency. We’re looking to hire people. How did you find them?

Jon Cheney: They found me. And that is where another, another place where AI can just make you an expert in things. My maybe one advantage that I have on maybe just an average person who’s just getting started is I had been a CEO of a company that raised money and been through an exit, and I, I had been there for eight years and, you know, I, I’d been around the block and so I knew things that mattered and, you know, some things that matter to, to appear and to show up and search results is you gotta have stuff like SEO and now GEO, right?

Mm-hmm. I had Franklin Covey reach out to me the other day and they said, Hey. Um, we’d love to work with you. We need, you know, we need some help on this stuff. And I was like, awesome. How’d you find us? And they said, Chad, GPT, right? Chad, GPT said, you guys are, you guys are one of the best out there. I was like, amazing.

That means that my work on GEO, and by the way, what, how did I do this On Repli, I found actually the best company out there that does GEO. There’s a great funded company outta Silicon Valley. It’s just this awesome. Mm-hmm. GEOI don’t remember the name of the company right now, but I, I, I handed that website to Grok and to chat GPT and I said.

Do as much research as you can in this company. Figure out exactly what they do and report back to me. Tell me down at the technical level, what are they doing?

Andrew Warner: Okay.

Jon Cheney: And as soon as I got, and then I had them, and then I had chat’s response and gros response, and I gave them to each other. I said, improve each other’s responses and then meld them together.

And then I took that and I gave it to rep. I said, here is a, an ultimate guide to GEO. Install all of this on my website. Done.

Andrew Warner: And so what are the things that installed on your website?

Jon Cheney: Oh, it just installed all the, just, you know, the meta tags and the robot text LLMs and the, the FAQs and all the things that the chat, GPT, all these GEO engines are looking for.

Mm-hmm. Right. And so it just had the structure, it had all the data that was there, and it’s nothing more than just certain files and tags and things that have to be done in a way that, you know, are, you know, appropriate and optimized for that. Because I did all of that stuff. People were finding me. I looked at my Google Analytics this morning, I sent it to my team ’cause I was actually happy about it.

But it said that, um, out of the, uh, let’s see. I’ll just tell you the numbers. Uh, in the last week, I’ve had 876 people visit our website. From organic search.

Andrew Warner: Okay.

Jon Cheney: I’ve had 412 people go direct, so they’re finding me on a podcast or LinkedIn or something like that. 166 people found us via organic video, 105 via organic social, 44 via referral and 35 unassigned.

So we’re talking 16, 1700, nah, maybe not quite that much. 1234. Yeah, maybe 15, 1600 in there of total visits in the last week. Half over half of those are organic.

Andrew Warner: Oh,

Jon Cheney: I love it. That means that repless structure my site in a way that actually works.

Andrew Warner: And you know what? I know that now they actually have built in SEO into the system, and I interviewed Cory Hein, who’s got, um, marketing skills that are on GitHub that basically will do SEO for you and including creating pages.

So there are ways now to automate it, but you did nothing offsite. You didn’t go to Reddit the way that the Zapier team showed me that they’re doing, you didn’t go to other sites and ask them to link to you. None of that.

Jon Cheney: No, no, I haven’t gone and done any of these, you know, backlink strategies, which I’ve done in the past with past businesses, right?

I just, for this one, I went out and did that. And I also, one thing I’m good at is I’m good at making noise, right? And so I called up my local news agency, you know, KUTV, you know, two channel, two news. I said, Hey, I built a business in a weekend, did a million dollars. You guys wanna do a story on it? They’re like, yep.

Interesting. Awesome. Now I’ve got a news story. Now I’ve got a very verified, you know, really nice referral source that comes and then, you know, someone did a story based off of that and then other things. And then obviously, you know, stuff like Joe Rogan and other things that started getting better, you know, but, but bottom line is, um, you can make yourself look really, really legit quickly if you’re not afraid to just call up news anchors and people, their, their job is to go find stories.

If you’ve got a cool story. Call ’em up, tell them maybe they’ll do a story on you and you’ll get business from it.

Andrew Warner: You know, one thing I’ve been trying to get, uh, Amjad from Repla to do and his team to do is find more your, your case, more case studies like you, and then just introduce them to people like me so that my audience who is trying to figure out what could we build with these tools, has some examples of what’s possible.

Otherwise, it feels like. Um, it feels like this is the place to build an MVP before you go and build your actual business, but it’s not, it’s like a full business. In fact, even when he talked about you on Rogan, he said, yeah, John went over and he created MVP and something like that. It was more than that.

The business is built on rep. If anything, he undersold what, what he does and I’ve been trying to get his team to introduce me to more people like that for sure. Um. Okay. Let’s talk a little bit about the evolution of the business. So it started out with that, with you getting a customer directly and teaching their people.

At some point you said, I’m actually not just going to be the teacher who comes in. I’m going to get referral. I mean, um, I’m gonna get I ongoing revenue, recurring revenue. What’s the thing that allowed you to earn recurring revenue from customers? What’s a service?

Jon Cheney: Yeah, so I, I came up and it was, I remember the moment I came up with it, I was on a call with somebody and I had been selling these, you know, $15,000 AI training days, right?

Mm-hmm. And people would pay 15 grand to just come in and teach their 20 employees or their 50 employees or whatever it was to, you know, how, how it was, how it works. And we’d do an eight hour kind of ai, whatever. And, uh, and I was talking to somebody and I happened to know this guy. He was an old neighbor and yeah, owned a pool company.

And, uh, you know, good one doing, doing about 20 million a year, you know, he is doing great. And, um, and he said, man, John, we need help with ai. You know, can you come in and teach us and show us? And I said, yeah, absolutely. And I said, you know, I, I just thought on the spot right there. ’cause he asked me the question.

He said, well, what do you do ongoing? Like, do you come in and teach us again? I. Absolutely I do Uhhuh, right? And I, I said, yeah, you know, we have this fractional chief AI officer model, right? And when I’m saying we at this moment, it’s still just me as a solo guy, right? Um, plus my, you know, quad and everybody else helping me out behind the scenes.

Um, but uh, I said, yeah, we’ve got this fractional chief eye officer model and it’s about the same price. It’s 15 grand a month, and, um, but then you get me ongoing. And so, yeah, we’ll do some trainings. You won’t get as much training in this first one, but. I’ll help you build stuff and we’ll figure out how to actually optimize and work with your people.

And he’s like, that’s what I want. Send me a contract. And I was like, okay. And I sent him a DocuSign that day and it was paid by the end of the day done. And um, and I was like, that’s cool. That’s $180,000 a year. That’s a big contract, right? All of a sudden I’m, you know, my hockey sticking on my a RR and I said, I wonder.

And so I called a few other people that I’d been working with and I said, Hey, I’ve got this new thing. And four more businesses signed up.

Andrew Warner: Meaning the existing customers, you sold them the same thing that you sold to the other one. And now, so far what we’re talking about is, uh, for people who are just listening, he’s nodding yes.

This is enthusiastically, this is the way that he found his recurring revenue model. From what I understand, you went beyond teaching to actually become more of a CTO to having some kind of frameworks that you’re installing. What is that?

Jon Cheney: Yeah. You know, the, the fractional chief AI officer model that I came up with, I, I.

Realized that there were three kind of buckets that that made sense. And I said this on the first call and it has stuck, right, but it’s STE is the kind of framework that I like to say. It’s strategy, transformation, and education. I was already doing that education piece a bunch, right? I had been teaching people and coming in and helping them get up to speed, but I also had been doing strategy as well with a lot of these CEOs, you know, before a call or before an education seminar thing I would do with people.

I would sit down with the CEO and having, I, I had the benefit of, again, having been a CEO for a decade. And so I, I had experience, I had ideas. I could, I could actually consult at a decently high level. And so, um, I was able to say, look, this is what I think it means for your business. This is how things are gonna change.

Here’s technology. This is, this is what it means. And then that transformation piece in the middle there. Is a, and I’m really good at building. I can build stuff super fast. I can vibe code, I can show you guys how to do it and work with you, work along alongside you. But ultimately, I want you to really start becoming an ai, you know, first company where AI is doing things, it’s taking tasks away from you.

It’s saving you money, it’s saving you time, it’s giving you back time, all of those things. And so ultimately that framework has worked really well and we still do it to today.

Andrew Warner: So you’re not implementing your own software, you’re just continuing to. To do what you did before, more strategy, more getting their people onboarded into this new world.

Jon Cheney: So I guess this is as good a place as any to announce our new, our new direction here. So obviously, you know, the open clause of the world and every agent system, you know, opened everybody’s eyes up, like, whoa, this is the future. This is really what we need to do. And obviously Open Claw was really scary to touch in the beginning.

Um, but you know, we, we set up Nemo Claw. Right. Which is NVIDIA’s secure infrastructure sitting on top of Open Claw. Mm-hmm. And we started using it in our own company and we used Open Claw in a sandbox environments, and we, we tried a bunch of things. Right. But now Jarvis runs my company. Right. And, and it’s incredible.

Jarvis. Jarvis

Andrew Warner: is your a, that’s a name that you gave your ai.

Jon Cheney: That’s our ai. And we’re not gonna sell it as Jarvis, because, you know, Disney likes to sue people. Mm-hmm. So we’re calling it Jenna for Jenna, a IPI. So Jenna, we’re launching it in about. I don’t know, 10 days or so here. And, um, but basically it is an agent that can run your business.

And it is incredible. It allows you to talk to your business and, uh, and so basically the way that this happened is, you know, fractional, a fractional chief AI officer operates a lot like a consultant, right? Mm-hmm. And so you’re really trading a lot of time for money. And, and that, you know, has a very linear growth pathway, right?

I don’t like that. I’m a SaaS guy. That’s what my previous startup was. So I want, I want to, I want to turn that curve up a little bit and add some parabolic momentum. And so I said, Hey, you know guys, we need to turn the things that we’re doing with these companies into systems and processes that we can then.

Systematize and turn into marketing engines and growth engines and operations engines and things that sit inside of Jenna, right? That Jenna then has access to all kinds of tools and things that it can then, you know, plug into a company. So now. We’ve already been doing this with our current clients and we’ve been using it internally, and it’s just, it saves us so much time.

It is amazing. Our clients love it. It’s, it’s incredible. But we’re turning, we, so we’ve, we’ve turned the corner of saying, okay, yes, this STE model still is there, but now it is assisted by software. So now we, we really believe that Jenna becomes, uh, the AI infrastructure for our clients. Right. And that becomes also much stickier.

No one wants to turn that off.

Andrew Warner: And essentially what that is, is neo claw with your twist on it, customized for what you’ve seen your customers need over and over.

Jon Cheney: Exactly. Yeah. Like what So, so Nvidia, you know, builds this nice, this nice structure, this harness, right. That, that makes it safer and more enterprise ready.

Okay. And so then we spin these things up. There’s, there’s con, you know, look, it doesn’t matter if you’re selling, you know, oil rigs or, you know, paint or, you know, if you’re a, a, a one man band. Uh, and we actually have a one woman band, um, you know, doctor that works with us, and she’s a, she does, you know, facial, you know, all kinds of skin things, dermatologist.

Anyway, um. They all have invoices that they hate sending out and they all have customers they need to communicate with and they have, you know, new customer requests come in and they have people send requests for information and the people wanna buy things and there’s just so many. Similarities between all of these businesses, right?

They all need their website redone. They all need SEO and GEO set up and you know, so we just have all these tools and, and things that, that, that work across all of these different businesses. Now we do then work, part of the, part of why we don’t just charge, I don’t know, five grand a month and go sell it as of software alone is we still do bring the fractional chief AI officer with it.

To help set it up. It takes time to get it integrated into the systems and to work with, you know, NetSuite versus QuickBooks versus this system and HubSpot versus Salesforce, and you have to do some connections and things like that. But then every business has their own stuff, their own custom things that need to be done.

And so we then train Jenna, their instance of Jenna to work within their framework and their systems and, and by the time it’s up and running, and it usually takes a few weeks to get it up and running. Their CEO is sitting there and just talking like, tell me about this. Oh my gosh. So you just identified this pattern we have never seen before and we’ve never been able to even ask this question.

And they can correlate things in ways that just hasn’t been possible until you can connect a central nervous system into the middle of it.

Andrew Warner: You know, it’s interesting. My business partner, Jesse Fuji, had sent me all these different companies that basically supported other software to show how big this, this type of business can get.

Mm-hmm. And. I think that we’re finally seeing an opportunity to do one of these types of companies here in ai, and it’s probably around open claw. Open claw has tremendous power, but it’s also a blank sheet that needs to be connected and configured, and I could totally see a humongous business being built around just implementing this in businesses with customization and maintenance and, and everything else that, that seems like a huge business.

Jon Cheney: This is our billion dollar idea.

Andrew Warner: That’s exactly it. Yeah. I mean, honestly, you can see businesses that are built to billion dollar ideas with, with this in other areas. Yeah. Alright, we’re gonna go into software, but let me see if I understand the framework. Fill in the gaps. Wherever I, wherever I’m missing.

And we’ll, we’ll give people this whole playbook, um, in the comments if they want it. All right. Yeah. Number one, interview with ai. We talked about this before. Two, have a business plan that doesn’t just take into account where you are today, but also what’s the future? You mentioned earlier if you’re going to sell it one way or another, you need to think about it in the beginning.

Or if you’re gonna implement features, you need to know about them in the beginning. Now, next, forget about these Facebook ads. Just go and reach out to customers on LinkedIn. Keep it simple. Then, um, start selling, uh, rec look for revenue, recurring revenue opportunities For you. Was the, the $1,500 ongoing training once you 15,000?

15,000? Oh, I had a, I’m missing a zero, 15,000. I love that you stopped me to say that. Okay. Um, actually let’s pause on that. Thinking, well, we’ll come back to it. I’m curious about this thinking big thing. ’cause it’s very easy to say, I’m just teaching. I should sell for less. You’re always selling for more than I expect you to.

Um, when you’re selling, sell this a framework for you as a strategy, education transformation. Then ultimately look for that bigger opportunity. And the big thing that you saw was sell software to assist the service that you just sold. So essentially you see people, what people want. Create the software.

Am I missing anything in there?

Jon Cheney: Yeah, no, you, you, you nailed it. The one thing I’ll point out on the software piece is the software is what makes it sticky. Right? What we, you know, we had a few early clients that were like, Hey, great, thanks for building all this stuff out. You know, we’re good.

Andrew Warner: Hmm.

Jon Cheney: So much.

Right? And we’re like, okay, cool. We made 60 grand, that’s good. But we were good. And in four months we transformed their company, right? And so we said, okay, what can we do to start building in, you know, something that’s gonna make. Us stay around for years and years and years, right? And, uh, you know, selling annual contracts as opposed to these, you know, 30 day by, 30 day, whatever, you know.

And we, of course, I, I, I put a, you know, I got rid of barriers, like, Hey, we’re not gonna make you sign an annual contract, or it’s not gonna be a certain project length. You want to fire me like any other employee, that’s fine, because that’s about the price we’re charging about an employee, right? 10 to 15 grand a month.

Our average, our average customer at this point is 17,000, but, uh, monthly with some of ’em being, you know, obviously higher. So, um. The, the real big thing that it, that has turned that, and, and that Jenna obviously is gonna open up even more, but all of our clients now that we’ve installed in Jenna four, they’re, they’re never going anywhere.

We’ve changed their lives forever. We’re a, we’re a core piece of their business now.

Andrew Warner: I totally, I totally understand that. Usually as a consultant, you turn that over to somebody else, right? You might install HubSpot now. HubSpot’s a core piece of their business. Totally. Here. You’ve got it yourself. Okay. Um, and then the other thing that I kind of missed and brush past, actually no, let’s talk about pricing.

How do you think about pricing? Why do you charge more than others who are doing the same type of AI transformation?

Jon Cheney: You know, I really just looked at what would, what would they have to pay if they were bringing someone internal? Mm-hmm. Right. You know, I believe that every company. Every single company should have somebody in charge of ai.

I don’t care if it’s, you know, director of AI implementation or a chief AI officer.

Andrew Warner: Mm-hmm.

Jon Cheney: Somebody needs to be in charge of AI and their job is to go around and keep people accountable. Hey, we have these tools. What are you doing? You know, are you trained on this? Do we need to do training on that? Do we need to do this?

Why are you still doing this manually over here? You could, AI can do that easily. You gotta have somebody that’s in charge of this and. I also was bringing a level of, uh, sophistication in terms of, I, I, I’m not a 22-year-old out of college. I had, I’ve been around the block. I build companies, I sold them. I know how to run a business.

And so I just said, you know what, in order for me to provide ongoing support, and really this is what drove it in the beginning, in order for me to actually provide ongoing support, it’s gotta be worth my time. So I’m gonna charge it kind of at a, you know, a good, good employee, 15 KA month to start. And, um, and then we’ll, we’ll go from there.

And, and. You know, it’s kind of like, you know, once someone runs the four minute mile, like it’s easy to run the four minute mile for people that are at that level, right? Mm-hmm. I have never, I have never felt like, oh man, I’m, I really want this client. I’m just gonna charge ’em 4,000. ’cause I think that’s all I can get.

I’m like, look, there’s so many companies out there that are willing to work at this level and, you know, they might be a little bit bigger. That’s okay. Those are the companies I’m gonna work with. For it to be worth it for us. We need enough resources. And honestly, I’ve even said, man, I don’t want any clients under 20 grand now.

Like I’ve, I’ve, I’ve said that because. It does take a lot. I’ve got a team now that’s working and delivering and to really make an impact. You know, we’re not, we’re not selling, you know, snake oil here. This, we are really making an impact on these companies. And so it’s, you gotta have the resources, you gotta have enough money that you can put other people on it and bring software and to do everything and have the time to actually make an impact.

And that, that number is why it landed there.

Andrew Warner: The anchor for this was a human being. I think every company needs this human, this role. Instead of hiring somebody full-time internally, hire me part-time. I’m gonna be stronger than a full-time person because I’ve got all this experience. Okay. The anchor was a really big one.

Brand seems like a really important part of everything you do, even the way that you talk about your experience. I had a funded company. I am somebody whose time is valuable. All of that. The website has this feel to it. You chose a.org. What’s your philosophy on brand?

Jon Cheney: Well, let me answer this in a different way.

Software is almost eases. It’s almost worthless now because anybody can create it. My 8-year-old made his own version of Roblox. Wow. And built 20 games inside of it.

Andrew Warner: Mm-hmm.

Jon Cheney: And he did that in a day with Rept. You know, I just said, you know, he said, I wanna play the computer data. I said, no, but. You can use this rep tool, and he spent like $400 of credits just building crazy stuff all day.

But I was like, whatever, it, it’d be way cheaper for me to let him go play Roblox or Minecraft or whatever. But I wanted him to learn and, and so I love that. But, but anyone can do it now. Anyone can build that software. And so because of that, well, what’s the moat distribution, right? And how do you get distributed?

Well, people need to know about you. Right. Very simple principles here, right? Gary V talks about all the time, right? His, his new book day Trading attention. Just, you don’t even have to read the book. Just think about that concept of day trading attention. And by the way, read the book, it’s good, but if people don’t know about you, they’re not gonna buy from you.

Simple. If they know about you, they might buy from you. So now you’re at least in the conversation. And so your brand has to be something that’s memorable. It’s easy. It has to, it has to make sense. It also has to be trustworthy. That’s a big thing. Stay away from the paper cuts, right? Death by a thousand paper cuts happens to a lot of companies.

I’ll land on their site and I’ll say. These guys don’t even have their pricing, you know, figured out. And, and they don’t, you know, their buttons don’t work and their, their Instagram button at the bottom, I click on it and it doesn’t go anywhere. It goes to the top of the page. And I’m like, okay, so these guys, you know, they might be big, they might have, it’s possible they’ve been around for 10 years, but they never took time to get their website right.

And so if, if that’s how they do their work there, then what’s the rest of their work like?

Andrew Warner: I do notice that, by the way, about distribution. You being on social every single day is part of your distribution. You feeling uncomfortable and saying, this is what I’m selling you even being comfortable with some of your social posts, really not, not getting a lot of likes is part of your philosophy.

Okay. I got the playbook, and by the way, we’ll have a link for it below to anyone who wants to get it. We’ll just obviously we’re doing it for free. Let’s talk about software, a few tools that you use. Repli. We talked about Zapier, another tool. What else are you using that you like?

Jon Cheney: You know, we’ve mentioned it a couple times, but I actually love GR for market research.

Andrew Warner: Why?

Jon Cheney: Because grok is plugged into X mm-hmm. And X has all kinds of people on there from every age range and every political persuasion and just about every industry. Um, there’s just not everybody, but, but it’s pretty dang good cross-section. And Grok has access to be able to say, what are people thinking about this?

Right? And so you can take that business plan that you make in chat GBT and drop it into grok and say. Tear this apart for me. What are people thinking? What are people gonna say about this? How will people respond? And it’s pretty dang good. So I use that for market research. I love that. Um, I also love Midjourney.

I don’t know why I love Midjourney. It’s just a fun, and maybe it was an early tool that I just got enamored with. Um, but I was, I, I try all the different platforms that are out there. And Midjourney is a fun one for, for creating that. I mean, nano Bananas amazing. And there’s other great ones out there. Uh, but I just have, I have a good time with that one.

You know, the tools that I used when I created the business, um, in, in a weekend were, you know, Chad, CPT grog for sure. You know, pressure testing my business plan. And then, so that’s really what I do. I create it, pressure, test it, and then get it into rept, right? Getting the rep would start building things.

Then when I needed images or I needed logos, then I’ll go to some of these other platforms that, uh, that allow me to, to, you know, be creative and get my images. And you need, you know, you need hero images, you need a logo, you need, you know, product images, you need, you know, just all kinds of stuff. And then, and then at some point you actually do want to get real people in there.

Like if you go to my website today, you’ll see, you’ll see my face there and you’ll see my team there. And you know, we have people now and it’s great. Seen it. Um, and that, and that helps, that helps.

Andrew Warner: Any out there tools that you’re especially excited about? Anything that’s a little bit weird.

Jon Cheney: I mean, I would say I, I mean, I would say Nemo law is pretty out there, uh, for a lot of people.

It’s uh, you know, a lot of people are scared, scared to use it. And, uh, I was terrified. I have never installed it on a personal machine. Like I just, I, you know, everything I’m doing on a virtual machine so that if I need to, you know, and I don’t give it access to everything. So you, there’s right ways to do it.

There’s right ways to do it. But I would say Nemo Claw is an out there tool. People know about, but, but not a lot of people are using ’cause they’re afraid of it.

Andrew Warner: Are you using Claude code at all or are you not touching any of those tools?

Jon Cheney: I, I know how to use them. I, of course, I go in and I try everything.

Andrew Warner: Mm-hmm.

Jon Cheney: My job now is to, is to really know about what’s going on out there and so there’s a lot of tools. I’ll go out and I’ll try the base 40 fours and the lovable and the bolts and Claude Code and Codex and everything. I have Codex on my machine. I do use that. I like that. Quad code’s awesome. And quad agents are great.

I, I think that Claude is the best. Rept under the hood uses Claude, right? I mean mm-hmm. Quad 4.7 is the latest now, and it is, it’s excellent. It’s, it’s amazing. But the Quad Code experience, um, while it certainly is accessible to a Normie like me, Uhhuh, I feel like it’s a little bit more accessible to developers and that’s why.

I just built my processes on top of rep lit, and so I’m just so dang good with Rept. I’ve never run into something that Repli couldn’t do, and I’ve never felt the need to go try other things to build. Like

Andrew Warner: what, what’s a, what’s a weird thing that you’re doing on Rep Lit that I wouldn’t have anticipated, obviously.

Yeah. Tell me.

Jon Cheney: So I built a, a video game just to see if I like a full on like, it’s called Moon Command. Mm-hmm. Go to moon command.ai, it’s free. I just, I wanted to see if I could do it right. I just decided to do that and that was hard. That was hard. There were crazy things I had, because it’s multiplayer, right?

You and I could jump on and we could play against each other right now, and so in order to have live realtime syncing of the game, there were all kinds of web sockets and things and communication and chats and on real time stuff. That was, that took me to Inter Rep has their, you know, their system kind of monitors.

You know, how good are you? Are you a level one developer? A level two, level three, four, and five? And before I built the game, I was a level four. I had built hundreds of apps on there, and that game took me to a level five. So

Andrew Warner: I do actually really like the personal projects on this. I wanna encourage everyone on my team just create a personal.

Project on any one of these tools because for work you tend to be more precious. For fun, you realize I could destroy this and it’s not such a big deal. I don’t have to answer to anybody else. I could say yes, implement the user, um, user accounts on it. No, I don’t want to do that. Whatever it is, and you get to play with it.

Okay. Uh, when you mentioned when you got to a hundred, over a hundred thousand dollars, uh, revenue, you decided you were gonna splurge at that point when you hit a million dollar run rate. Was it all profit? It was essentially just you, right? You plus a little bit of software.

Jon Cheney: It was mostly profit. Yeah. In the beginning it was, it was 99% type margins.

Like really, and, and even this, you know, I would, I would work in rep, but what I would do is, part of the contract was I need a company card. So I would put all rep charges and everything. You know, we’re on the company, it’s your account I’m building for you. And so any, you know, additional cost accrued, it wasn’t coming outta my pocket of that 15,000.

That’s what you’re paying me to be in, in the room, right? Mm-hmm. And so yeah, that was, that, that was basically, I had, you know, six, you know, CAIO jobs at the same time. Um, which is why I said, okay, you know what, I’m okay to, let’s, let’s switch to 40% or 50 or 60% margins by hiring some people Yeah. And building systems into that.

And so that’s, that’s where we are today. Closer to about 50 probably.

Andrew Warner: What’s the revenue right now?

Jon Cheney: It’s growing very fast. We’re, um, we’re sitting at about four and a half million in annual recurring.

Andrew Warner: Wow.

Jon Cheney: And by the way, for, for reference sake, I hit a million, let’s see, we’re in April, so I hit a million in September.

What is that? Eight, nine months. So I went one to four. In nine months, we will absolutely be at 10 million. Uh, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll be at 1 million a month by December for sure.

Andrew Warner: Do you think anyone else could do this? Or is this one of these opportunities that comes and goes? Than you were early, and so you were able to do it.

Jon Cheney: I had somebody ask me the other day, how many, how many more years do you think this type of business could be launched and started, and my answer was five,

Andrew Warner: five more years. For people to be able to bring others, bring other businesses on board to ai, and then it becomes what,

Jon Cheney: at least in a big way, right?

You know, to, to, to, to have a great success. There are hundreds of millions of businesses in the world that need this. If I help a thousand of them, I will be wildly successful and rich from it. Right. That means there’s room for thousands more.

Andrew Warner: I cannot believe how open, how generous you are with this, and I appreciate you coming on and doing this interview.

Uh, for anyone who wants to go over to your website, it’s jen ai pi.org and of course, John’s a really good follow on LinkedIn. Thank you, John.

Jon Cheney: Thanks so much, Andrew. Happy to be

here.

Andrew Warner: Thanks. Bye. Everyone subscribe for more.