Andrew: Hey, listen up. This interview is full of secret information and I know you hear that from lots of people so I’m going to tell you what’s coming up. You ever see those guys who on their websites have ‘as seen on CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox’, et cetera and you wonder how they get on all those places? Well you are going to find out right here, how they do it, and if you want, how you can do it, too. What about how, maybe your local financial advisor is suddenly a best selling author. How did he do it? You’re going to find out how he did and maybe how you can do it too, if you want to. All that and so many other ideas in this interview wait till you hear. I promise it’s going to be great.
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Finally, do you need a lawyer who actually understand the startup world that you and I live in? Go to walkercorporatelaw.com. I’ve known Scott Edward Walker for years, so tell him you’re a friend of mine and he’ll take good care of you. Here’s the program.
Hey there, freedom fighters. My name is Andrew Warner I’m the founder of Mixergy.com, home of the ambitious upstart. Hey, did you know that many gurus don’t make their own info products? Many of them hire today’s guest to help them organize their ideas and turn them into CDs, Ebooks, membership sites and get help marketing them. It all comes from a guy named Greg Rollett, who is the CEO of the Product Pros which is a company that makes and markets info products and services for others. Greg, welcome back man.
Greg: Thanks, Andrew, happy to be back.
Andrew: So before we started I was asking you about your day, because that’s something I’m learning from past interviews. You can’t just jump right into business, get to know the person as a human being. We had a personal chat and then something came up that I think we’ve got to bring up in the interview. You said ‘Later today I’m bringing’ Well, bringing who in to do what? This is something that shocked me. I didn’t know this was going on but it’s so fricking clever we have to start with this.
Greg: Definitely, so as part of the Product Pros we’re actually a part of a family of companies under the Nick Nanton’s Celebrity Branding Agency and we’re actually bringing in 22 financial advisors from around the country, all top earners. Six and seven figure earners, financial advisors, financial planners. People that deal with retirements and investments and stuff like that. They are actually coming in to shoot a TV show that we’re producing called the Consumers’ Advocate and it’s actually a TV show that we put together. They get interviewed on kind of a talk show style interview with a host and it’s about a seven to ten minute interview. They talk about their business how they’re helping people, what they’re doing to better the community and help people realize their retirement dreams.
They get that clip on high definition DVD. It’s a three camera shoot so it’s real nice. They get their make-up done. Imagine 22 macho financial advisors all getting their make up done and it’s really great. Then we actually condense the clips down in to about one or two minute clips per person, package it together and we get it aired on ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox affiliates across the country, so now all these financial advisors now get the credibility, the recognition, and really the trust factor that being seen on these networks have. Then they can use that in their marking or when they’re sending out direct mail pieces, on their websites, things like that. Just help them really stand out and really market themselves as the go to financial advisor in their market.
Andrew: So now, when they market they’ll be able to say, “As seen on NBC, ABC, Fox, etc.” They’ll have all those logos on their marketing products.
Andrew: Because they each were on the show for about, what, 120 seconds?
Greg: [laughs] Yeah, exactly.
Andrew: How do I do that? I’d like all those logos on Mixergy. How much does that cost me to be a part of it?
Greg: You need to come and hang out. It’s actually six payments of $995. You come in, you hang out. It’s actually a three day experience. Tonight’s the opening cocktail reception, you get
Andrew: Wait. I just pay you six hundred bucks and I get all that…?
Greg: No. Six grand.
Andrew: Oh, $6,000.
Greg: Yeah. $6,000.
Andrew: But it comes with more than just being on TV.
Greg: Yeah, so it comes with more than just being on TV. You come in, the cocktail party. Tomorrow you do a professional photo shoot so you get about 30 or 40 photos taken, different outfits, a nice white background. The pictures are big enough to blow up and put on billboards, so if you want the Andrew Warner Mixergy billboard on the interstate… Then we do media training all afternoon. How do you sit on camera, how do you look at cameras. What do you do with the interview after it gets done. So how do leverage this to then get more media footage. How to turn that and get that to local TV stations, radio stations, publicists to get more of that. We did some other training on how to leverage it online for more marketing publicity and then the third day is the actual TV shoot. Everybody has their TV time. They come in. They get interviewed. They get their makeup done. And then we have a wrap party. So that’s a really great experience. So they get the TV experience but they also get the media training, the photos. It’s really a full PR weekend for these guys.
Andrew: Here’s what I want to do with this interview. My vision for the interview originally was to see how you came up with the idea for this business and grow because Mixergy basically is biographical interviews here. But after we do that, I’ve got to ask you about all these things that if someone wants to be a guru, all these different services that you give them because I would never imagine that there was someone out there who could give me all those as-seen on logos from my website and all my mailings and you told me about that.
I would never imagine that there’s somebody out there who is going to create these photos for me and here you do that. I want to know what else you do so that frankly, this is for me so that I have to understand that I don’t have to figure every freaking thing out for myself. I figured out the camera here at Mixergy, the freaking microphone, the recording and all that. It’s good for me that there’s other people out there who can help me do that and maybe there’s someone in the audience who wants to hear too. So we’ll save that for the end of the interview. I want to know every single thing that you can do for someone that says I want to be an expert. I want the world to know the brilliance in my head. Frankly, I want to know the brilliance in my head.
I know one of the things you do is you help coach out people’s ideas where they’re so used to doing what they do that they don’t even know how to do it, what makes them great. You bring those ideas out of them and then you help them package it. I want to know how you do all that.
Greg: Let’s do it.
Andrew: Let’s save that for the end of the interview and when we do that, we’re also talk about, there’s a little teaser for anyone to stay with that portion of the program, I have a note here to ask you about how you take these guys and make them into best-selling author. It’s very similar to what people just heard you say right now. I’m going to save it for the end and I hope you feel comfortable being open about that, the way that you’re open about it.
Greg: We’re going to be open. Let’s get it.
Andrew: Let’s go back and see how you built up this business where you got to where you, have you got to where you are. You started out working for an employment guide. What’s an employment guide, and what was working there like?
Greg: Honestly, it started out as a decent job. So I started learning internet marketing stuff and my wife’s parents were like ‘Hey, let’s go steady bullets. Get a job that pays for the bills and let’s put [??] in real stuff and just work it at night’. So I got a job and it was in the internet marketing kind of field. I was doing blogging for the employment guide. I was doing some SEO and search engine optimization stuff and then it really let into finding out all these people that were helping people find their dream jobs.
Andrew: By the way, what is exactly an employment guide? This is a website that has a bunch of different …
Greg: Yeah. It’s like a JobWord, like a CareerBuilder, or a Monster. They also have a physical newspaper that goes out on a weekly basis that you can pick up at the 7-11 or the big green boxes on the side of the road where they have newspapers. And it just had a bunch of job listings out there where basically we were an advertising company. So a company would say, “Hey, I need to hire 25 people at my hotel.” They would place an ad with us either on the Job Word or the paper. And so my job was to then get the job seekers, the people looking for jobs, interested in these jobs so I’d teach them resume tips, interviewing skills, how to live out their passion, how to create a personal brand, things like that.
That’s really how that job became and I realized that I’m giving all these people advice on what they should be doing with their career and yet I’m really stifled in what I’m doing. I want to be doing big things, better things, helping more people. At the time, I really want to be still working in the music industry and I just knew that that wasn’t the place that I wanted to be in.
Andrew: OK. And so you said this isn’t the place where I want to be. What did you start doing that eventually led to where you are today while you were working for the employment guide?
Greg: Definitely. So we started this site Genuinerockstar.com, which was our blog for musicians and we were teaching musicians how to market more effectively, get more fans, book more shows and we really built a nice following there and I was building a mailing list. I had at the time probably 2-3,000 musicians on the mailing list. We were giving away free stuff. And we launched our first product called The New Music Economy, which we talked a lot about in the past interview and how we launched that and how I did the whole run and tell your wife kind of thing where I was at the screen and running and telling my wife we made a sale and going back and forth.
Andrew: This was, by the way, we did before was a course on Mixergy where you thought people who said to themselves they want to create their own info product. You helped them come up with the ideas for what the product is. You thought them how to create the product. Told them how to market and we’re talking a little bit about what happened to you as a result of that. But for anyone who didn’t catch that, this is your own product. You got so excited by the sales that you ran and told your wife about how well it was doing. You remember how well it was doing just to get a sense of where you were when you were starting? Can you just tell me a little bit more about what that product was about, that first one that you created, and how long it took you to put it together.
Greg: Yeah, so that first product was called The New Music Economy, and it was a four-video course that was designed to teach musicians how to use internet marketing essentially. It was four videos, and literally, I went to Home Depot and I got these big sheets of whiteboard. I had them cut it. They were like three feet by five feet, whatever it was. I boarded them up on my bedroom wall, so my wife was super happy with me about that.
I had a little flip camera, and I didn’t even have a tripod at the time so I had it on a barstool and I had a couple books on top of the bar stool. Put the flip cam on there. I hit record and ran to the board and I’m like, “Hey, what’s up. This is Greg Follett and welcome to video one in The New Music Economy.” The four videos are about 30 minutes or so each. That was the first product. Literally, we released, sold it for $47. I think on that first webinar we did it for $37; sold – I don’t know what it was – like 70 or 80 of them that first night. It was awesome, seeing that you are now actually impacting people’s lives and seeing them change.
Andrew: How did you get people to come to the webinar?
Greg: We had built the mailing list through genyrockstars.com, so we had a mailing list of 2,000, 2,500 people at the time. We had a couple hundred of them on the webinar that night. We did our own list building.
It took time. It wasn’t something that happened overnight. Maybe it was about six to nine months worth of blogging before we actually launched the product. But we had a great audience, and we gave them great content. That’s why they showed up and that’s why they bought.
Andrew: How did you know to use a webinar and what to say once you were on the webinar?
Greg: To do the webinar, the reason we did it is because that’s what we saw everybody else doing. Right?
Greg: One of the biggest things is, if you see something working, model it, take the things that you like, and make it your own. So, really that’s what we did. We saw all the big internet marketing guys doing this, and I didn’t do nothing. So, I went and signed up for GoToWebinar and just gave them, whatever, $500 for some crazy webinar. That’s what we saw the guys doing, right?
Something that I really like from the internet marketing world is to not always to do as they say, but do as they do, right? So, sometimes their products aren’t the greatest products. I’m not here to knock anybody, but look at what they’re doing that’s getting your attention. Right?
That’s what was getting our attention at the time. Really, I got on there and literally the pitch was only like five minutes long. I gave like an hour’s worth of content just teaching the best stuff I knew, the best of the blog kind of stuff. Then, I was just like, “Hey, I’ve got this new thing. I think you’re going to like it.” I think that that really resonated with them because it wasn’t, “Here’s a long list of the 100 benefits you’re going to get, and here’s this,” and they keep tiering down. It was more just like, “Hey, got this cool stuff. You should get on board.”
Andrew: All right, let’s see where else. So, what was the next step? Now that you’ve built your first, did you start building a second product and a third and so on?
Greg: Yeah, so we built that first product, and then I teamed up with… Basically, if you Google music marketing, there are like five or six guys that you keep running into that were doing similar things that I was doing. One of them was by the name of Eric genyrockstars.com, and he was running a site called evolver.com. I hit him up just to be an affiliate for my product, and I was like, “Hey, would you like to promote my product?” Instead he was like, “How about we team up?” He’s like, “You rank #2 in Google, I rank #3 in Google. What if we just took both of our traffics together and created another product?” So we created a membership site called Label 2.0…
Greg: …which is about a $50 a month membership site, where we taught them something. We had live teleseminars and we brought on special guests. We had everyone from A&R’s at music labels to, we had the guys from Grooveshark on one of the calls. Just all kinds of music industry people, and that was, in our eyes… I mean, that’s the Holy Grail of any business, is to get the continuity income, the membership income, getting them paying you $50 a month for as long as they’re a member. So, we put a lot of energy and focus into that, and I think we have notes in here somewhere that we’re going to talk a little bit about that.
But that was really kind of a step back from what I was doing, because musicians just… We just couldn’t get them to pay the $50 a month for the membership, so that was a whole new learning curve in and of itself.
Andrew: I see. So it was easier to get them to pay for a one-time thing than it was to get them to pay for something where they knew that they’d be on the hook month after month after month?
Greg: Yeah. I think it had something to do with it. It’s not really tangible, right? So, they didn’t know what the future holds through this program. As a musician, you’re literally – especially an Indie musician – you’re living day by day. Right?
Greg: “I have a show this Friday. I need to get an effects pedal, and here’s the six songs I need to practice.” That’s the only thing that’s on their mind. Our whole goal was to teach them the bigger mindset, the entrepreneurial mindset that a musician can have. Something was just missing there, and we just couldn’t get the traction.
We started creating partnerships. We created a partnership with ReverbNation, who at the time of this launch had about 500,000 musicians. Now they’ve got three or 4 million musicians using their stuff. Basically, we went to them and were like, “Hey, we’re doing this Label 2.0 thing. How about we teach all of your 500,000 musicians how to use your tools the way we would use them?”
Right? “So here’s how we would use your email widget. Here’s how we would use this widget that you offer.”
Greg: They were like, “Sure. This sounds awesome.” So, it was value. So that’s a really big point for everybody listening. We didn’t come in saying ”Hey, can you just send us your 500,000 musicians?’. We went and created like a 6 hour training program for them to give to their musicians and at the end everybody were like ‘Hey, if you like this, check out [??].com/label2.0 and there was an affiliate agreement there and that was a huge partnership for us.
Andrew: What did you imagine you were going to do with that big an audience? How big did you imagine your business was going to get as a result of that big partnership?
Greg: We thought our business was literally overnight going to go through the roof and this was something obviously it didn’t take off or didn’t happen overnight. It was a long term relationship. I met Lou, one of the founders of [??] at a conference and Eric, I’ve known him through blog posts we wrote from him and we just kept building up and literally overnight we thought we were going to get like 100,000 musicians paying us $50 a month and life would be great and it was really the exact opposite happen. We literally didn’t get any traction off the ground from that. I mean, maybe we saw two or three members from that process.
Andrew: Two, three members off of a process where you’re marketing to have a million members.
Greg: Yes. Very painful and that was really one of the biggest let downs to that point because I had launched a product, it was really successful. We’ve gotten this partnership solidified. It took a long time and obviously we thought the fruits of the labor were going to be great and to get like two or three people was just terrible. And I can’t say that out of those two or three people one of them has actually become like a superstar through our training. His name is Quite Entertainer. He’s a DJ out of Nashville, Tennessee and he’s booked. Tons of tours and shows and done a lot of great things.
I actually just now released a product with him called The Definitive DJ Mindset where he went and interviewed five of the world’s best DJs. I got them to talk about their mindset of how they tour, how they play shows or how the book gigs and all this stuff. He’s been with us for four, five years since Rhythm Nation so I can’t say we have people that came out of it that have been successful. We just couldn’t get the people that jump on board.
Andrew: By the way, in a moment I’ll ask you about what did work for you because you did end up with something that was effective. But I’m imagining as we’re talking about some people in the audience saying ‘Hey, you know what. These info marketer guys are selling nothing. The software guys are changing the world. The iPhone, Android guys are coming up with the future. Hardware people are taking risks and creating something that we can touch, that we can put in our drawers, that we can put in our shelves. But info products are just a little bit, I don’t know… What do you say to someone who feels that way?
Greg: To developing iPhone app you need to have information in order to build and program the iPhone app. In order to really do anything in life, you need to have the information to get there and you are right. People really have that sense of you’re just selling fluff. You’re just selling air. But if I can send the confidence, the motivation, the inspiration to get you off your butt, watching this video to then turn around and start a business or advance your career or to do something in your life, that’s really noteworthy and unfortunately, and I think I mentioned this in the course that we did, if I sell a hundred products, I’m only going to get 3 or 4 students that really go through the material, grasp it and take advantage of it.
But to those three or four people, we’ve created a lifetime relationship. They will remember me for the rest of their life that Hey, I remember going to Greg’s course that one time, out of a whim. I didn’t know him from anybody else. I gave him the $50 online, whatever it was and because of that, now I’m playing these kinds of shows. Or I’m doing dance or I created this kind of business. And for me that’s what’s fulfilling and satisfying. That I got those 3 people to get off their butt and change their life.
Andrew: All right, Greg. Let me ask you the same question that I asked, I think the first time I asked this was of Linda of Linda.com. Information online is free. People can YouTube it. They can Google it. They can hunt it down and put it together. Why do they need to pay for information? Shouldn’t it be free?
Greg: That’s an awesome question and the thing is information is 100% free so everything that I thought in the last course, people can go online and they can search and they can find it. But they got to work to go ahead and search and find it.
The other thing is the notion of free. And again I’ll give the music industry example of musicians who maybe you sound like Radiohead and you go to a Radiohead concert and when everybody’s leaving you got your 500 burned CD’s in the white sleeves and hand them to every single person leaving the Radiohead concert. You’re like, “This 50,000 people are going to pop this in and they’re going to love it”. But those 50,000 people grab that CD that they were given for free and they toss it in the window. They use it as a coaster. They maybe pop it in. There’s no reason for them to go and listen to that because they didn’t invest anything into it.
So when you now pay $10 for a CD, you’re going to pop it in and you’re going to listen to it because you invested money on it. There’s a fear of loss of I spent money on this. I might as well check it out and see what’s there. Same with information based products. When people just read a blog, right. They read a blog post and they are like, ten tips to writing a better copy and they are like, ok cool. Those were ten great tips to write copies. Sounds good, maybe I’ll use one later. But if they paid 500 bucks for a course to learn how to create copy, you better be using that stuff, because now there is that pain of loss. If I don’t use this information, well then I just wasted money and I am investing now in myself.
And there really is that mindset that when you make an investment like that you’re actually going to take action. Commit to using that information. Again you can go and find the information. People do all the time. But what’s going to make you hold accountable? What’s going to make you actually get off your butt and take the action? And sometimes, financial investment is what is going to take to have that accountability to have that motivation to get the things done that you really want to do.
Andrew: You’re one of the fastest talkers I have ever met. Last time we talked I thought “Boy, he’s got somewhere to go, I better really keep up because otherwise I won’t be able to keep him for the end of the program”. What I learned, having talked to you afterwards privately is, the way you talk. You always talk like this? Even with your wife?
Greg: Always. And I don’t remember if we talked about it the last time. And I think we got it on for this time [??] But I was actually a rapper in a rock band. And we did all like the kind of the fast songs. And stuff like that. So I just have that fast talking ability. I don’t know what it is.
Andrew: It’s impressive. And frankly that’s the way that if I would listen to this on my mp3 player, that’s the speed I would want to pay attention at. I don’t like it slow. I want you to just fill my head with information. I want you to keep on moving, because, you know, we think faster than most people can talk.
Andrew: You were offering free trials to this Label 2.0 [SP] membership site. That didn’t work and then you came up with something that did work. What was that?
Greg: We started offering free trials. Then we actually offered a dollar trial.
Andrew: One dollar to try instead of a free?
Greg: Right. And when we did that, we actually then again, just as I mentioned, we got them to commit, to something. So they actually had to get into their wallet. Hold their wallet out, look at their credit card, insert the credit card information online and make that commitment to you know, “hey, this was worth 30 seconds of my life to get the wallet out and spend the wallet. So we went to going from a free trial, just enter your name and email address and after 30 days you either have to pay or you lose it, to a dollar and after 30 days we are going to bill you the 50 bucks. Unless you say you want to cancel. And that really was a turning point because we got the people with the right mindset. To now join the membership and the program. And still the numbers aren’t coming in [??] We didn’t got our 100.000 people, but we were signing up ten people here, twenty people here, another ten people here. And when you’re doing something that is 50 bucks a month, that really starts to roll. And become a really nice income.
Andrew: All right. And so you were selling 47 dollar info products. You were creating thing membership site Label 2.0 You were doing well, but not as big as I imagine you’d like to be. And then you met this attorney from Orlando. What happened with him?
Greg: I think a lot of us were really just ambitious, right. So even if we hit that 7 figure mark, we want to hit that 8 figure mark. And we always continually want to grow. And I think that’s really the definition of life to me. Continually changing and growing. We were doing very well. I was able to work from the house. Be able to provide for my wife. It was really great. But again, you envision [?] bigger stuff. And there is an entertainment attorney from Orlando who I knew from my music background. He wanted to get a record deal. He was the attorney that would get you the record deal. So we always knew who he was. We met a couple times in conferences. Different things like that.
I actually wrote an article for [??] about how Indian [??] musicians using social media kind of stuff and at the end it said, this was written by [??] From Orlando, Florida, from General Rock Stars [SP]. And he saw it and is like “Dude, you’re that guy from Orlando who is doing music stuff”. And we actually had lunch. He invited me out to lunch. Let’s go do something. Let’s hang out, let’s talk. And we went to P.F. Chang’s, right below his office. It’s a funny story we always tell our clients about how we met at P.F. Chang’s. So I figure I would mention it in here. Over some nice Chinese food we talked about some things and gave him some ideas about what I was doing, what he was doing. And again formed a relationship. And that is something that as a recurring theme, the [??] relationship, that was a relationship we build over time.
This relationship with Nick, who now is my partner, is a relationship we build over time. It turned in from one lunch to other lunch to I invited him for a concert. And he actually invited me to a showcase of Florida Music Festival. He had one of his artists, Hilary Bono [SP], playing at the Gibson guitar room. And it was for our only industry executives, lawyers, labels, you know, label heads and people like that. Well we got there and it was like 11:00 a.m. on a Saturday morning. We actually had one to many mimosas in the morning. We were just talking. And I was like, “What do you do for your clients after they go to your initial program?” and this and that. And he was like, “I don’t know, what can you do for them?” And I was like “hey, why don’t I go make some products for them?” And he was like “sounds good, see you on Monday”.
Andrew: And he had clients who are musicians who came to him for legal services?
Greg: So, yeah. I guess I got to back this up. So, about the same time that I was leaving the band to now start internet marketing, he was also leaving his entertainment practice to focus more on some general law, branding, different initiatives there. Because we both saw that the music industry, unless you’re one of the, the lucky few, isn’t the most stable, industry to be in.
So, he actually took what he did in becoming one of the top entertainment lawyers in the country and created a, a book called, actually wrote a book called, ‘Celebrity Branding You.’ And it was how he was able to take a profession that mostly is a kind of commodity business, being a lawyer. And was able to become a celebrity expert, in that business. And so now, he was taking all his clients and people around and helping them to become celebrity experts. And that kind of eluded to the TV show that we were talking about earlier, where now we’re taking financial advisers and helping them become celebrity experts.
Andrew: And he was doing it one-on-one, saying to other lawyers, “Hey, you see how I’m just not another lawyer sitting in an office somewhere, waiting for clients to come in?”
Andrew: I’m a celebrity on MySpace. People know about me. People want to come..
Andrew: …and work, and hire me. I want to…
Andrew: …make you a celebrity, too. It was that kind of thing, one-on- one. Is that what he was doing?
Greg: Initially, that’s really how it started out. He was like, ‘Let me put you through a custom branding program.’ And then they started doing what, what they called the Celebrity Branding Experience, which was a 12 month program. Where they would work with a group of, I think the initial group was 15 to 20 guys, something in, in that realm. And it was a year long program.
They did one event in Orlando, one in New York City, and one in Hollywood, California. Where one would shoot a TV show. Another one, they would all write a book together. And then, the third one, they would release the book and having like a big book singing, kind of launch party. And it was a year long experience to become a celebrity expert, in your marketplace by…
Greg: …getting all these media credentials, and things like that.
Andrew: So, he wasn’t saying, “Hey, go write a book, because when you write a book people see you as the expert”, no. He was saying, “We’re going to do it together. I’ll be here for you. We’re all going to celebrate when you finish the book together.” It was that kind of thing.
Greg: Exactly. Yeah. So, it ended up being like compilation books. And the first book was, “Big Ideas for Your Business”, and there were the 20 clients who went through this first experience, all wrote one chapter in the book. And they all released the book. Obviously, they released the book on the same day. Everyone promoted it to their mailing list, to their fans, to their mom, to their children, to whoever it was. And it instantly become an Amazon best seller. I think it hit number one in two or three different categories, on Amazon. And instantly, these 20 people were now best-selling authors. And, you know, they had the book signing party and invited everybody up. And now, all these people were now celebrity experts.
And the cool thing about bringing 20 people like this together, is now you have 20 affiliates or JB partners. Really, kind of business advisers that you can bounce ideas off of. You’re really all kind of going through the same thing. You’re all getting the same kind of treatment. And really a game changer for these businesses.
And it was something, that from the outside now, I wanted to be apart of, right. So, I actually joined to write in one of Nick’s books before I became partners with him, ‘cuz I was like, man I want to do this. Like this, this sounds awesome. And he had an internet marketing book that I joined.
And, so yeah. So, he, he had this group of clients. But when I joined he had about 500 clients he’d done this for over the last 5 years. And, you know, he had these clients, and I was just like, “What do you do for them after they write the book, or after they get on TV? What do, what do they do?” And he was like, ‘I don’t know. What can you do for them?’ And I was like, “Well, I can make products for them, right.” Every author wants a product they can sell in the back of the room when they speak, and this and that. And he’s like, “Cool. See ya on Monday.” [laughs]
Greg: It was a Saturday. On Sunday I put together, you know, a real loose business plan. And on Monday, you know, we were, we were off to the races, and starting this new company which, which is called the Product Pros, a little over a year ago now. And that’s really kind how we of put it all together. I mean again, it’s really building relationships over time, seeing, you know, the bigger picture of what you want, and going after it.
Andrew: But it was that quick you said, “Hey. This guy’s giving me an opportunity. I’ve got to put…”
Andrew: … “together a plan to take advantage of this opportunity. To really create something that’s going to knock him on his butt and make him want to introduce me to all of his clients.” What was that plan that you came up with, and on such short notice?
Greg: Yeah. So that was tough because again, it was a different mindset. And I think we talked about it earlier, or maybe it was before we started. But I went from being in the $47.00 game into the couple thousand dollar game literally overnight, right. And that’s a completely different mindset when I’m used to being on a webinar saying, “Hey. You can buy this product for 47 bucks, you know.” Fifty bucks is really not that much money to a lot of people. And now all of a sudden I knew what he charged to be in the books. I knew what he charged to be on the TV show. I told you guys the TV price earlier.
You know, that’s a different kind of mindset even just to think about. So, I was like, what value can I deliver for that price point? And so I knew that everything that they did was a done for you program. So, if you wrote a book, you were wrote one chapter, he was editing it. He was packaging it. He was doing the design. He was getting it on Amazon. He was picking the categories. He was distributing the book. Like the client literally had to write 2,000 words and they’re done, right. And then they just party when they become a best selling author. So…
Greg: …I had to come up with something very similar on the product creation end. What’s the least amount that a lawyer has to do? A lawyer who wants a product or maybe something to give to a new client. What is the least amount of work he has to do? I was like, ‘what if I just interview them, for an hour, we can transcribe it, we create a workbook out of it, I add some PowerPoint slides to the interview’? That’s literally the plan I put together. The lawyers have to do no work other than talk to me for an hour. They saw that . . .
Andrew: So, they just talk to you for an hour and you, at the end of that hour, start working on it without them. Then you hand them a finished product and you say, “Here, this is a how-to info product that you could sell to your audience?”
Greg: Really, that’s what it was. Let’s use a State Planning Attorney as an example: they do wills, trusts and things like that. They’d sign on as a client, and I’d say, “All right, Andrew, what are the three or four services that you offer. How do you help people?” and they’d give me a couple quick outlines. I put together about a 60 minute interview, really like the one we’re doing now. I’ll ask, “So walk me through a will. Why does someone need a will?’ and they’d say, “They need it because of this or that”. I’d ask, “What’s the difference between a will and a trust?” and they’d give me some of the answers. We’d go back and edit that 60 minute recording. We’d take out the ‘ums’ and the ‘ahs’. We’d make it sound pretty good. We’d get it transcribed so there would be about a 30 – 40 page manual. We’d create a workbook just like this. Just fill in the blank. ‘What is a will?’ Then just have a couple steps: “Who do you need to contact in order to get the forms for your family”, what ever it was.
We did all the graphics for them and then, basically we said, “Here’s your stuff. Here’s your audio, here’s your video, here’s your manual, here’s your PDF.” Then they went. Even in the beginning we wrote their sales copy for them and we did their thank you page for them. Literally they spent 60 minutes on the phone with me and in 30 days they got this. They were able to sell their products. And that’s how we were able to really go from a $47 dollar business to being in the $3-5 thousand dollar business, literally overnight.
Andrew: By the way, that sheet that you held up was the notes from our pre- interview with you we always like to go in as prepared as possible with a guest, make sure that we only talk about the things that our audience is going to be interested in and it’s cool that you printed it out so that you and I can follow along and know exactly where we are going.
Andrew: All right. Let me wander away from the notes a bunch, but I still want to make sure that we stay with it so we fill this whole conversation up with useful information. All right. You put out this pricing plan, you go from small to large and now it’s time for you to get clients with this new pricing and product job that you put together. Who’s the first one that you got?
Greg: Luckily, like I said, Nick had this group of clients already. He threw me a soft ball. Right? He knew this one client he had bought everything. He’d been in a couple books, in a couple T.V. shows, he’s getting their website done by our team and he’s just like “Greg, just talk to this guy and he’ll buy whatever you tell him to buy.” [laughs] So I was like, “Sweet!” And obviously I’m going to send him the link so he can watch this, but he runs a company called the ROY matrix. It’s call tracking. He works with a lot of dentists, for advertisements when they send out direct mail, things like that to track the incoming calls to see how many people actually call, but his system takes it a step further to now see how many appointments were booked how many people actually came in for the appointment, if they accept it like a treatment plan and get their cavities drilled or what ever it is, so they could go back and track that advertising to, “I put this add out, I got this many calls and it resulted in – $20000 worth of business,” what ever the number is. His biggest problem is that this is confusing to a dentist, right? The dentist is like, “I don’t know, I just put ads out there and I drill in people’s mouths, right? I don’t know any of this crazy voodoo and you do.” So, I approached him I said, “What if we put together a real simple interview product that a dentist can play.”
We ended up with a 60 minute interview that we did in four 15 minute chunks so it was something that the dentist could easily listen to on his way to the office in the morning. It really broke down for him why he’s placing ads, the point of his ads, is he tracking them or is he just throwing money away?’ and that was the first product we created. Like I said it was a softball. He just tossed it up to me and I hit it out of the park. I’ve actually ended up doing three products with him. Created an automated web and ‘R’ forum, I’ve actually become really good friends with this client and it’s a product that he now uses. Basically, every time he gets a prospect in the door he gives this product away for free to get his point across to these dentists and other people he works with.
Andrew: I see. By the way, when we talk about Nick, I always imagine an older guy, an older lawyer. I’m looking at your website, at productprosystems.com, and I see that he’s a young guy.
Greg: He is a young guy. We’re both young guys. I’m going to be 30 this year and I think he’s 32 right now. Our other partner, our third guy on the team is J.W. Dicks and he’s a little older. He’s been in the industry for about 30 years. He’s been everything from a lawyer to a financial adviser to helping out with franchises. He’s got a lot of that background to help our young age not really play a roll against us.
Andrew: Is his wife also working with you guys? I looked at one of your sites and I saw a video with her on there.
Greg: Yep. It’s really a family business. I’m kind of the outsider to the group. Jack and Nick started the company Jack’s daughter, Lyndsie, runs our web divisions and is also the CEO of the company. Jack’s wife is also the CEO of the company . . .
Greg: . . .Jack’s wife, Linda is our photographer; she does all of the photography for the site. Nick’s dad is actually one of the editors for our books, so it really is a close family business. Which for me it was a great environment to come into, knowing that they are going to look after me, just as if I was one of their own family members. So . . .
Andrew: What size revenues are you guys doing?
Greg: Last year I believe, it was in the four to five million dollar range for that . . .
Greg: . . . company, don’t quote me on that, but it was in that range.
Andrew: I saw that you guys were on App Sumo. How did that go for you guys?
Greg: App Sumo was actually awesome. I literally, and people asked how we were able to get on there. Literally there’s a submit a product link, I hit that button, I filled out the form, it helped in the form, it asks, “Tell us a little bit about your product.” And I was like, here’s some of the stuff I’ve done, “I’ve been on ABC, NBC, Best Of Fox, I’ve got a couple of best selling books, I’ve done a product with Brian Tracy.” So that stuff obviously you know, got a quick foot in the door. It took about a week for them to come out and contact me, but after they contacted me, it was like three days, and they were like, great, it’s live; it’s the deal of the day. And I’m like, holy crap. So it went really well, it’s brought in about a thousand clients now, over the last 90 days.
Andrew: A thousand people, who did custom work with you guys?
Greg: No, who have bought the product on App Sumo . . .
Greg: . . . which is, a $77.00 dollar information based product, teaching people how to create products. So we brought in about a thousand people that way, which is great, I mean basically we’re getting paid from App Sumo, to [?], and now we have a follow up sequence. It’s a 30-day content sequence telling them what they should be doing in the product, and then after that it’s an up-sell into the custom done for you stuff. And we probably brought in maybe 10 to 15 clients, from that App Sumo sequence right now that have gone to the done for you.
Andrew: I see, OK. I saw them advertise you a lot on Facebook.
Andrew: Do you remember what your deal with them was, what is it? It’s like, 20- , you know actually don’t say that, because that might be private with them, so I don’t want to get you in trouble.
Greg: It’s a great deal, and for us, obviously our business is in the “Done for you side.” So, all the money that we are getting for selling the product, is really icing on the cake. Because now, instead of us having to place Facebook ads to buy clients, they’re doing . . .
Greg: . . . it for us. And we’re still getting paid to get that lead, and to get them to know they can trust me, they see my videos, see my faces, go through the training, and if they need a little more hands on approach, they say hey, here’s where you can hire us, so for us . . .
Andrew: Why do people hire you, because even if the Mixergy course that you did for us, and by the way, it was damn good course, people loved it. I loved that you were generous, and gave the information that you did, you walked us through a process that I wish I had, before I created any product here on Mixergy. And then at the end of it I said, what the hell is he doing, and I think I even said this to you before to make sure you were comfortable with it. What the hell is he doing, he’s giving everything away, why would any one then go and hire you, after you just gave away the whole process for creating a product, for marketing it?
Greg: And again, it really goes back to what we were talking about earlier, just because you know the information, doesn’t mean you are actually going to go and do it, right? So I can break it down, I can break it down, I mean creating a product is simple, go find four people that you want to interview, interview them all for an hour, get them transcribed, and sell it on your website as the four steps to acts, right? I mean you can create a product tomorrow doing that, but you actually have to go and do that work, right? So we really take that away from our clients, you know a lot of our clients again, they are people that are very busy like, doctors, lawyers, chiropractors, even coaches, speakers, authors, I mean these are busy people leading a life. And we come in and say like, “Andrew, look man, I’m going to interview you for an hour, and then give us 30 days, and we’ll just give you this stuff at the end, and then you just plop it up on your website.”
So that’s instead of you having to figure out, well what content do I create? We’re going to create that framework for you, what camera should I use, don’t worry about it, just jump on Skype, and we’re going to record this thing. How do I edit it, don’t worry about it, our team is going to edit it. Who do I get to transcribe, am I going to just go on Fiber, and find some random dude from Romania that doesn’t know English, we’re going to do that for you.
Andrew: Let me see one of your finished products, for example.
Greg: Yeah, at the Product Pro Systems dot com, there’s a tab at the top that says, “Sample Products”, there’s 20, 30 products on there that you guys can check out, and. . .
Andrew: But, I think those lead people to sale pages, I guess you’re saying to spend 17 bucks and get the one with I don’t know, Brian Tracy for example?
Greg: Yeah, the one on the bottom with Brian Tracy, I think yeah, it’s like 10, 20 bucks for that one, some guy’s crazy, I don’t know why he’s charging that little, but I mean, if any one wants to see a sample of the product feel free to just shoot me an email at Greg at Product Pro Systems dot com, and I’ll be happy to send any one a sample of one of the products so they can see what the finished product looks like.
Andrew: So back to narrative, you had your first client, you started producing this product with them, one of the things that you wanted to do, was do a physical product, the actual DVD’s, right?
Greg: Yeah, so a lot of the stuff we were doing was just digital, right? Because it’s really easy, and on the client’s side, if they sell it for a hundred dollars, they keep the hundred bucks. Or if they had to give it away for free, they just email it out in PDF, and you know, in some of our cases like, with the lawyers and with the chiropractors, when some one comes into their office, they want to just be able to say, “Here’s a package that you can have with you.” And be done with it. This is something that I was unfamiliar with. Coming from a music background, I knew how to do CD’s. I knew how to just a DVD. You go to Discmakers, and you buy 1,000 of them, and you’ve still got 995 of them under your bed. You know, that fun story. But I didn’t really know how to do the booklets and the 3-ring binders, and how to package all of that together.
We had a client who was actually the biggest client we had at the time. When we first started, most of our products were in the $1,000 – $3,000 range. And then I finally got someone to go at the $6,000 range. And it was for a physical product, and it was around seven hours worth of content. It was going to be six DVDs, and six manuals, six work books. I mean, just a huge, huge product, and a lot of responsibility on my part. And if this went well, it was going to be a great case study and story to tell. I could say to potential clients, “Here’s what we can do for you now.”
So we went through the process. We loved the product. We loved the graphics. Everything. And we picked a bad vendor to do the printing. And this was bad. We went to the client, and we were like, “Hey, the printer screwed up. They burned the wrong DVD on the wrong . . . ” And when you’re dealing with six CDs, six DVDs, you not only have the six CDs and the six DVDs, but you also have the artwork that goes on each of them. So if the printer puts the label for DVD #2 on DVD #1, and the label for DVD #4 on another, see? It was just such a mess. He got the thing and just freaked out.
He was like, “Dude, #6 is on #1, and DVD #4 doesn’t even work, and DVD #3 says it’s a CD, but it was a DVD, and . . . ” And, literally, it was a mess. And because this was the first time I ever did it, I turned back to what a lot of us do, and just make excuses. “Well, it was the printer’s fault.” Right? And the client doesn’t buy that because we chose the printer. So this is a huge lesson that we had to learn and a huge thing that we had to overcome. To just really man up and say, “That was our decision. We need to eat that cost. We need to go and find a better printer. We need to get this solution solved.” And it wasn’t a quick solution, because with the DVDs, we had to actually mail physical versions of the DVDs to the printer.
So when we sent them to the printer, the printer printed it. The printer sent it to the client. That was, say, now, process [tape interference]. The client now gets it. The client says, “Uh, this is the wrong disc.” The disc comes back to us. We’ve got to re-burn the DVD. Re-send it to the printer. The printer has to re-print it. Send it back to the client. The client goes, “It’s still wrong.” So now we’re at three, four weeks later, and the client is pissed. He is not a happy camper. The vendor is mad at us, because their response is, “Oh no. I can’t believe Greg’s calling again. Something must be wrong again.”
And the real lesson there is that the people that you do business with and associate yourself with – the vendors, the affiliates, the partners. It is really crucial that you do your due diligence with these people. Make sure you’re finding the right people. Make sure that you’re getting samples. Make sure that their quality control is as good as your quality control. Because at the end of the day, it was our name that got ruined. They don’t care about the printer. We lost a client that will never do business with us again. A client who was spending a lot of money. Because, for the info world, six grand is a lot. This guy is never going to do business with us again.
Really, really pay attention to the people you do business with. In fact, that goes all the way down from the ads that you have on your blog. Are they going to treat your customers right when they click on your ad and they buy their services? Because the client’s going to look at it like this. “Well, I was on Mitch the other day. I was on Andrew’s site, and Andrew had this affiliate link on there. I bought it. And the guy that I bought it from was a complete jerk.” And it looks bad to Andrew. It doesn’t look bad to the guy whose product it is. So really do your due diligence in your vendors and in the people you work with. That was really an eye-opener for me. And really, I had to step back and accept responsibility. I had to get better customer service. Better communication.
And it really helped me grow, because we haven’t had problems like that since. Because now, we put in the time, effort, and energy to make sure that it all works out.
Andrew: You were targeting lawyers at first. You were targeting a certain kind of business person at first. And then you ended up shifting towards the coaches, the gurus. How did you make that shift?
Greg: Yeah, so we kept trying to launch this. I had Nick’s in the Celebrity Branding Agency. I had their built-in clientele. Which was who we were trying to snipe the clients off of first. These guys we already know. They trust Nick and Jack. And they like the programs they’ve gone through. So it’s just easy to say, “Hey, here’s our new partner Greg. Check out his services.” And we were getting clients that would trickle in. We’d get one or two here, three or four there. And things were good, business was great. Not complaining. But we never had that home run. Of 30, 40 clients all coming in at the same time.
So we took a step back. We asked, “Well, who’s actually buying this stuff? Let’s go through this list and ask, ‘What are the products you’re making? What are the products that all this stuff is about?'” So we started looking, and we were like, “OK. Here’s one lawyer. Here’s one doctor. Here’s one chiropractor. Here’s one real estate guy. Here’s ten coaches. Here’s four guys talking about success. Here’s five guys talking about leadership.” And the bell just went off. And we thought, “Well, maybe this stuff isn’t what the lawyers want. Isn’t what the chiropractors want.” It isn’t what the financial planners want. Maybe, it’s what these coaches want.
So we really had to make a fundamental shit, but it goes with going back and looking at who your clients are. Because who you think they are, and who you think you should be marketing to, it really isn’t always the end equation of who’s actually listening to your show, or going through your marketing material or whatever the [??]. So, we really stepped back and were like, ‘[??] what these guys want.’
So we really started tailoring our programs now to coaches, to authors, to speakers and to people that really want to be in the information marketing business. That is where we really started to see our numbers go up, our satisfied clients go up, and we were really building the right things for the right people. Then we were also able to go back to the lawyers and the chiropractors and say, “You guys don’t want a product you can sell,” a lawyer isn’t selling a product. He wants information based stuff. So now we are just doing [legion] CD’s, or prospect the products. We don’t call them information products, we have different words and vocabulary for them.
Andrew: Because their not selling it. They’re just saying that if you’re having this problem, here’s an information product, essentially. Here’s something that’s going to help you understand the issue that you’re facing. If you need to hire a lawyer who will help you beyond that, then we’re the guys to go to. So they don’t have an interest in selling something for 47 bucks or even a few hundred bucks, they just need that client.
Greg: Right, yeah. A personal injury lawyer, you know, here’s a CD on the ten things that you need to do when you get into an accident. What’s good is that selling it for 50 bucks when they can sign them as a client and get a hundred grand on the settlement.
Andrew: How did you know that, that was their issue? How did you know that this…because you’re not a lawyer, you didn’t walk into this understanding the needs of the lawyer. How did you figure out that, that’s their real problem? That they need leads, and they need a product to hook in leads.
Greg: [??] talk to people. I think that’s one of the lost arts, especially online, I mean we talk to every single one of our clients. Obviously, when we’re creating the product, we have to be talking to them. Even [??] the people. We have product called Info Product [??]. We have a product called The Info Society, which is our membership site. I mean, these are just information based products. You just buy them on our website. You can buy them at 3 a.m. or whenever. We call every single one of them and are like, ‘Hey Andrew! Just saw you bought Info Product Pro yesterday. I wanted to make sure that you got your login. Why did you buy this product? What interested you in it? What was your reason…’
So we do that from the Info Product Site, all the way down to the customer side and the first conversation I ever have with people is, “Andrew, why do you want to make this product? What’s the end goal?”, and then their like, “Well, you know, I’ve gotten a lot of patience and they ask the same questions over and over again,” and then I’m like, “Well then, you don’t need a product to sell. You need an objection based CD. We aren’t going to call it that, we are going to come up with a fancy name for it, and we’re going to get you 500 of these, your going to have them in your office.” When someone comes in, you have your initial consultation and are like, “All right Andrew. When you leave the office today, I got this quick CD. It’s only 30 minutes and you probably live just 20 minutes away,” just pop it in on his way home, It’s some great information. I was interviewed by this guy named Greg [SP], he’s a best selling author. You’re really going to enjoy it, and it might tell you a little bit more about who I am and what we do.’
For the lawyers, that was such a better approach for them. That’s just the lawyer, it was the whole professional kind of crowd that we were marketing to. Then have this other side, that was information based marketing, for somebody that wanted to be a coach. So I want to teach you how to get out of the rut that your having in your life. They wanted the actual product to sell, because they wanted something on the front end of their coaching program.
Andrew: You’re saying Greg, that you would call the people when they signed up and you’d say, “What are you trying to do with this? What’s your goal with this information, with what you signed up for?” And that’s when they would tell you, ‘Hey, I need to deal with objections. When someone comes in for a consultation they go home wondering, why should I even trust him? Why would I want to work with him? I need something to do that.’
That’s the kind of stuff that you learned when you said, “What’s your goal?”
Greg: Yup, yup.
Andrew: All right. One of the challenges for you, is that every time you make a sell, your done! Then you have to go out and get a brand new person in, right? We talk a little bit about recurring business. What did you do in this business, once you started creating products for other people, to give yourself some recurring revenue so that you could have predictable revenue?
Greg: Yeah, so. Obviously the biggest challenge with our business is that it’s transactional, right. So, we create a product for you, you get the product and you sell it, right? We’re kind of done. We’re kind of out of the picture, unless they want another product. In most of our client’s cases, they don’t need two, three, products right now, right? There are some people that actually bought multiple products, but that’s not the case with the majority of them. So, we were like, “What can we do to keep them on”, right? They are happy, they like our product, they love what we’re doing. They give us [??] testimonials and great reviews and yadda, yadda.
The next logical step was that we needed to market these products for them, right? So after we create it for them, lets market it for them. That was always a tough decision, because of everything that we’ve done in the agency up to this point, we guaranteed the results, right? So that, if you joined our T.V. program that we talked about in the beginning, we’d guarantee that your going to [??] ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX, and your going to have you’re going to have a DVD of your interview clip, right? We’d guarantee that. If you joined one of our books, you were going to have a hard cover copy of the book with you as the author in it, and we guarantee you (?) best seller.
If you create a product with me, I guarantee you that within thirty days of doing the interview, you are going to have a product that you can use in your business. So, the marketing side is always that gamble, right. It’s only this every single time that, you know, even if I am the best marketer in the world, you know, I might go “bomb” on your project. It just might happen, right, the copy didn’t resonate or the ads didn’t work, or it was very apprehensive about this but one thing that was working really well in our business at this time was Facebook ads and we were driving traffic to our programs we have Facebook ads and we were, you know, spending, you know, thirty cents on a click to, you know, convert somebody into a three thousand dollar program, we’re, like, well, this is like, you know, gangbuster, this is awesome, right? So, we thought it was great, and we’re like, may be this, this could work then for clients, we can (?) off for the products that we create for them and some of their services.
So, we started that (?), like, we could kind of create a typical agency continuity kind of program, and in theory it’s on a great, right? So, it was like a nine ninety five activation fee, and there was four ninety five a month plus the percentage of their ad spent. So, the math on that is really good. You get a hundred clients all paying you five hundred bucks a month, plus their ads spent, and if you can get these clients spending, you know, five, ten, twenty grand a month in ads, I mean, it really easily becomes a hundred thousand dollar a month business. So, from the number side, you’re like, “Man! This is awesome, this is, this is going to solve the recurring problem and this might actually be the business that we wanted to create.”
And so we launched here (?), you know, four five clients they, they were, you know, gung-ho and were like, “Let’s do this”, and actually ended up being one of the most miserable experiences. It’s funny we’ve been talking about a lot of challenges today but I think it’s good for people to hear somebody adverse, you have to overcome, because it’s not all peaches and cream. I love my business and I love what I do but it’s every day isn’t like, smile flowers and Champagne bottles, as much as we’d like it to be. But, so, we launched this and we just didn’t foresee the problems that were going to come when you’re doing this. So, again, we’d been in this guaranteed results business and now we were in the “really gambling with your money” business.
It’s really what it was like and, you know, we had clients who, you know, were like, “I only want to spend thirty dollars a day” and if it got to thirty one dollars a day, I mean, we’d have a phone call too in the morning saying, “Angel, you know, you just spent thirty one, I just said the budget was thirty dollars” and you know, things like, “you said, on the average people were getting like a ten to twenty percent opting rate and I only got three clicks there” and it was like “Holy crap!” like going through a headache, hell, really and the thing where there was is, you know, you would have been changing things on the fly, it was a 24×7 business. With my product ratio business, once I recorded an interview, (?) days, right? I don’t care if I am doing it, you know, two weeks from now, a week from now or three weeks, as long as it is done on a deadline, but when you are spending people’s money on the fly, you got to be attendant to the stuff and literally I was going crazy (?) and night’s and just banging heads on desks and Facebook.
I know, you have had some people talk about ads on the show or something that before, but, you know, Facebook changes every week, and some days they will prove your ads, and some days they won’t prove your ads, some days they like your landing pages, other days they don’t. It’s the same fricking thing every time, and it was just really, like, going crazy and for me, like, I was just like, it’s the (?) getting for this, worth the stress, worth the headaches and worth what I was going through and I really got away from what I loved to do, which is help people create information that changes people’s lives. Here I was, you know, just trying to get you a couple extra more clients, you know, and ended up being a very (?). To me, jus, the word wasn’t worth it. The effort that we were putting into there, and so something that we did have to pull the plug on.
We are coming back with a new (?) kind of marketing program but it relies more on guarantee stuffs that we’ve been talking about. So, we still are always thinking about how can we have that recurring revenue, but, you know, in your business, you really think about, you know, “Is it going to be worth it?” I mean, don’t get me wrong. I love working. I’ll stay up all night long on a project, right in the sales (?), get ready for a launch, or helping a client out. But, in this case, the work, just there was no satisfaction, a personal gratitude, there was never a thank you once, you know, with the twenty or so clients that we had, it was always, you know if the landing page looks bad or this is wrong or “Why did you write this ad copier?”, you know, “why did”, you said it was, like in, it was …
Greg: …it just wasn’t worth the headache of going through that with the clients. It was, it was really one of the worst points and you know, I am a pretty happy and upbeat guy, and my partnership was like, “You are, you suck right now. You look like you’re having a, you’re just on a negative mood all the time.” I was just, I really, I was, you know, for a (?) times I was an ass, you know, just quit the snack back at people, you know, giving excuses to here and there and that just wasn’t the best me that I could be and…
Andrew: What’s the part of, what’s the part of the business that you run, Greg? Is it, Are you the guy who, who creates the outline? Are you the guy who goes on camera?
Greg: As far as,
Andrew: At the product pros, what’s the thing that you do?
Greg: At the product pros right now, I do all of the sales and then I do all of the initial product creation stuff and the recording of the products. So that involves everything from doing things like we are doing right now, hanging out with you. I actually just got back from London, actually spoke to a hundred [??] fitness trainers over there. Giving them information on how to create products and selling my products and services there. I run a lot of the marketing initiatives. We do a lot of automated webinars and live webinars with other joint venture partners. I do a lot of one on one sales. People come in and say ‘Hey I’ve got an idea for a customer product,’ and I’ll work with them on that idea.
Then as soon as they come on board as a client, actually I’ll tilt over here. I have a giant white board on the wall. [??] Actually, grab that white board and we map out their entire product on that white board together. Andrew, we want to create a product on how to create great interviews. [??] What’s the first thing you want to teach people when they want to create great interviews? We write that down. After we have that written down and solidified that, what’s step two, what’s step three, what’s step four? What’s a case study that we can talk about? What’s an exercise [??] that we can do? Literally…
Andrew: So you market and then you on-board them by helping them think through their ideas and then the company takes it from there, where someone helps create the product and someone else helps market their product?
Andrew: Got it. OK. All right. Here is what we talked about. We talked about…we talked about how you built this business, what you loved about it and do well and what you didn’t love about it and decided to change up. We talked a little bit about what you create. Now I want to spend more time on that right now. In that section, where we talked about what you create. We talked about how you get people the as seen on logos for their sites. How you make a best seller. Basically, you pool a bunch of people together. They each write a chapter so they don’t have to spend too much time writing a whole book on their own. Then they all promote it so that the book becomes a best seller. Let’s see…you talked about how you extract ideas from people to create their product. What else do you do? What else do you do to make somebody who says, ‘I’d like to create a product’ into a guru who has a product?
Greg: Our whole business is around the theme of helping people become celebrity experts in their marketplace. The thinking is, celebrities have all the attention, all the press, all the people looking at them.
Greg: But it might not really be the lifestyle you want to lead. There’s not much business or substance behind it. But then the [??] expert, when you think about it, an expert in it’s truest sense is the guy who is working for the universities in the basement studying all day and not making any money and hoping that he gets funding for his research project. We want to marry the two together. We want you to have the fame, the attention and the expertise of knowing everything you know about your market. Really that’s what we do through all of our programs. Again, it goes back to the TV shows. We help you craft your message that you want to share on TV and then we get it aired on all the networks. We help you go through an author consultation. Here’s one of the books here: New Masters of Online Marketing. This is the first one I was in. Even though there are multiple people in the books, you can get your own custom covers. This one obviously has my picture on it for myself. So again, it’s like that super business card, that super piece of credibility that you can use to become the celebrity expert. If I wrote a chapter on information products, well, I must instantly be an expert on information products. It’s that whole perception is reality part.
Andrew: Yea, you know what? My researchers just kept telling me that too. It wasn’t just…you didn’t just talk to Jeremy Wise, our producer, who helped put together the outline for this conversation. We had someone internally research you. It just kept coming up, best selling author as recognized by the National Academy of Bestselling Authors. The name of the book was given to me in the research and I didn’t include it in the intro because I though, you know, let’s find out about this book later on and let’s focus about the product pros. So now I see how you did it and I can see the impression that it made, even on our researchers, who are looking for every little bit of detail about you. Alright. So, you do that. What else do you do?
Greg: I want to, kind of, piggy back on that, on when your team was doing research. When you sign on to do the book with us, you sign a publishing deal with Celebrity Press Publishing. We write press releases on you and syndicate them around the web. Now when your team was going to do research, they would see all those press releases popping up. Greg Rollett publishing deal, Greg Rollett hits best seller list, Greg Rollett becomes a two time best [??]. It just goes on and on. We take care of both sides. We created the media. We do the marketing to help it become a best seller and then we do the PR side to give that third party credibility for all of that stuff. Same thing with the TV show. As soon as it’s aired on ABC, you get a press release saying Greg Rollett was just seen on America’s [??] Experts, seen on ABC. Another press release for NBC. So all that stuff just keeps rolling up. So when someone Googles you, they’re just like this guy is legit. He’s got it going on.
Andrew: It’s not just a website that has all of those logos now, when you search for them you come up with all these reports on other sites about every step of this process.
Greg: Right. Well its the same thing like with the interviews that you do. I mean, if I just came on here and said “Hey, I’m Greg Rollett. I’m a six time best selling author. I’ve been on ABC, NBC”…I’d look like an arrogant ass. Right? But when you come on and you’re just like, “Today I am interviewing Greg Rollett, he’s the CEO of the Product Pro. He’s a best selling author, he’s done this, he’s done that.” Well that lends credibility to me before I even come on to the program. And that’s what these third party, the PR sites, the associations, the National Academy of Best Selling Authors, America’s Premier Experts. All these other associations we have created to give that third party credibility.
So now I don’t seem like an arrogant ass. It just seems like “Man, Greg’s moving, he’s hustling, he’s doing all these things, he’s (?) himself in the right places, (?) seen by the right people’ and that’s really how that celebrity expertise is built. And that’s really the foundation of what our entire business is built on.
Andrew: What else? What other services are there? I didn’t know about any of this stuff. I want my audience to know about it too. I want to demystify this, maybe give them an option but also let them know this is what’s going on.
Greg: Yes, so we also do big campaigns in big newspapers and magazine outlets. We do a lot with The Wall Street Journal and USA Today. Obviously that’s big for financial advisors (?) a full page in ‘The Wall Street Journal’ saying, “These are the top financial advisors as recognized by America’s Premier Experts and that’s something that then they can get framed, put in their office….
Andrew: And you buy this as an ad but it’s like an advertorial?
Andrew: Okay, got it, so now they get something to print out and say “Look I’ve been named I’m on this list” and they put it up on…
Greg: One of yeah, America’s Best ..you know…
Andrew: Give me more. What else? What else? What else?
Greg: [laughs] So we do things like that. We’ve done stuff like that in the USA Today. We actually have a campaign going on now for ‘Inc. Magazine’ Trendsetters in the new economy kind of promotion program. We do a lot of things like that.
Whenever we do one of our big print campaigns we also do it online so we get it syndicated and then it runs on tons of online outlets. Miami Herald, Market Watch, Boston Globe, all kinds of just online outlets. Again just more logos, more third party credibility yada yada that goes out.
Andrew: What about – oh, go ahead, you were going to say something. I shouldn’t have interrupted.
Greg: No, no. You’re good. One of the things that I’m most proud to be a part of that we do here is with the books so, right, so everyone wants to be an author I think that’s just something in down, everyone wants to see themselves published and there’s really no recognition for these people that are getting published. And so what we founded is the National Academy of Best Selling Authors.
I know you read that as inducted into the National Academy of Best Selling Authors. That’s actually an association that we created, because there was no recognition for authors. Any author. They don’t have to go through our program. If they just Google National Academy of Best Selling Authors they can submit, if they’ve been a best selling author to be on the site and we have a lot of legends. Jack Canfield, Brian Tracy, Michael Grbic, folks like that that are on the site that we’ve recognized for their work.
Andrew: So you’ve recognized these people who we all recognize as experts who are best selling authors and you recognize your clients in this list and so you put them in good company.
Greg: Again that’s the celebrity association part of it is working with these guys. Two quick points and I’ll let you get back, sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off…
Andrew: No. Hit it. Hit – this is good stuff.
Greg: Celebrity association is huge for us. Because again, like the names that I just mentioned, people love… ‘Greg just got inducted into the National Academy of Best Selling Authors who has also recognized Jack Canfield, Brian Tracy, Tom Hopkins, Michael Grbic, yada yada.
We found out celebrity association works really, really well. So we’ve done things on the product side, I’ve actually struck deals with Brian Tracy, Michael Grbic and Tom Hopkins where our clients can now co- create products with Brian Tracy, Michael Grbic and Tom Hopkins where I’ve pre-recorded three modules, three with Mike, three with Tom, and then I record three modules with the client. So now, Andrew can say, “I have a product with Brian Tracy, oh so you don’t know who Brian is? Brian is an equity Time [sounds like] best selling author, he’s been seen by 60 million people in 65 countries blah, blah, blah.” And so you get that instant celebrity association with these guys.
Same thing with TV shows. So we do the Brian Tracy TV show, we’ve done the Michael Grbic show in real estate. We’ve done the new masters of real estate with Ron LeGrand and so these are just all legends in the field that now you get that association with. You get to meet them, hang out with them.
Greg: On the book side, the National Academy of Best Selling Authors obviously we have the best sellers, the Golden Gala Awards which is basically our version of the Emmys or the Grammys. Nick and I are both in the Grammy association. We take our clients to the Grammys every year and we were like, ‘Man we need to do this but for our authors’ and so this year coming up in September will be the third annual Golden Gala Awards. Jack Canfield is our lifetime achievement award recipient so he’s going to come out, give a speech for his lifetime achievement award.
Andrew: And you pay him to come to that. He has a clear fee?
Greg: Correct. Yeah.
Andrew: By the way I love hearing this stuff. I love hearing this stuff. This is the kind of stuff that I wanted to create Mixergy for. So people could be this open about how they run their business and talk about the clever things that they do to build their businesses.
What do we say though to the inevitable negative feedback that we’ll get somewhere from someone who says, “This is all just fraud, it’s just manipulating public opinion by doing all of these things that you just mentioned”, what do we say to them?
Greg:We’re very transparent about what we do, and that’s something that, obviously, I think has come across in this interview that, in the Wall Street Journal, It’s a paid authorial. So we’re paying to get on there. The spots on TV, those are bought TV times that we’re paying for. We’re not trying to lie to anyone. We’re not trying to deceive anyone. But the truth of the matter is, you were in the Wall Street Journal. Regardless, you were in that paper. Here is the tear sheet to prove it. Again, it works for a certain type of client.
So again, we’re not right for everyone. We’re not the cheapest company in the world, but we’re also not in the PR firms, that are charging 10, 20 grand a month for PR. We’re not in that world. We are much less expensive than them. The compilation books, some people just really want to write their own book. Well, we can do that for you as well. But if you want to go and you want to write the whole thing, and you want to pay us to edit it and go through that process, I mean, it’s a lot more feasible to go through kind of the coauthoring process. I have sent about three hundred copies of this book out to people, clients, fans. I sent a couple to Jeremy for doing the interview. I have never once had anyone come up to me and be like, “Dude, you only wrote one chapter, like, this is B-S.” Everyone is like, “Dude, this is cool, you know, it is a hard-covered copy, your face is on the cover.” People just really, instantly, take you to that next pedestal. There’s going to be haters, i guess. For the clients that we work you for, and that work it correctly, it is a game changer in their business.
Andrew: Yes, yes. I can see that.
Greg: Again, and then we teach them how to leverage it, how to use this stuff. So now, how do use the TE [SP] Clip? How do you use it as a DVD in your customer sale cycle? How do you use the books? Like with us, when someone signs on as a client, they get a welcome kit as soon as they sign on with a copy of celebrity Braiding You [SP], a signed copy from Nick [SP] and Jack [SP], they get a welcome letter. That’s how we’re using this media. We use it in our own business, and we teach our clients the exact same way to use this. So Andrew, if you were in a book, I would hope that everyone you did an interview with gets a signed copy of the book that goes out. Saying, “Hey, thanks for being on the show. You helped pay my bills.” But that is stuff that we teach, and people just really appreciate that kind of stuff, and it really goes a long way to building that credibility, really that trust and bond factor.
Andrew: You know what? Craig, when I started out, I knew it was time for me to sell something of my own here. I knew I was learning a lot through Mixergy, and I wanted to create something that was more actionable than an interview. And I struggled with it for weeks, and maybe months, just going downstairs. There is a business center in my building, a really nice environment. I had the whole place to myself, sat there with my laptop. Started writing away all of the ideas that I had learned about, how to interview for example, because people kept asking. It took me for freaking ever to put that thing together, to give it away for free but, for freaking ever. And then from there to create a course took me a while. If I would have come to you instead, I know it would have saved me time but, what would it have cost me, and what would you have given me?
Greg: Ballpark product creation, to create a product is about 3 grand, is where it starts at.
Andrew: Three grand, that is all to create. Would you have helped me figure out whether I should have sold, created a product about how to interview, or created a product about how to start a business? You would have helped me figure out what it was.
Greg: That goes everything from idea creation, to framework and outline creation, to recording it, editing it, packaging it, putting it together, and that is up to a three hour audio product. And if you want videos and stuff, there are add-ons and things.
Andrew: Let’s suppose that it would be videos also, because people know me through video.
Gre: Yep, so you are probably looking at 4 or 5 grand tops.
Andrew: Four to five grand tops. I would’ve had a product, I could sell it on my own. I could keep 100% of the profits, you guys don’t get a cut of it.
Andrew: Boom. Done.
Greg: Yep, and we set it up for both physical distribution and digital. So if you wanted physical copies, we have a print on demand service that we use. So if you said, “Jim from Wisconsin just bought one.” You let us know, and we ship one out to Jim from Wisconsin, or you just do it digital. However you want it.
Andrew: You would of told me you [??] charge for it?
Greg: Yep. [SS] Yep, so our team goes back, we do research, and we said, “Here’s five other [??] type products that are out on the market. Here is what similar internet marketing courses that are similar content range. Based on what we’ve done, in our products, I’d say charge X for it. Again, we’re very transparent. Again, I don’t know what is going to work best, so I say test. We are very big on testing. I’d say, “Test it at 147, test it at 197.” Let’s see who wins. But that’s about the ballpark you’d want to start at. Here is what some of our clients are doing to market their products. Someone else who is doing interview products is doing a lot of joint ventures and affiliates. Here is who his top joint ventures and affiliates are. Let’s go out and find them.
Andrew: And you would have told me what software to use to give the affiliates or joint venture partners, depending, you know, that’s same thing essentially. You would have told me, “Here is a software that would give them their cut. Right?
Greg: So, we would have said, “Hey, if you have this kind of a budget, we recommend, just use ClickBanks. Because ClickBanks is great for under a hundred dollar product digital delivery. They handle everything, and they just cut you a check every two weeks. If you are at the next level, let’s use 1shoppingcart. Because they [??] [SS].
Andrew: I take the, let’s say, the $6,000 package first. Or maybe even the $3,000, I guess it doesn’t matter. I sell it to my audience. It’s a great quality product because I would’ve made sure that it was great quality of the content and you would’ve made sure that the production values were high and the ideas were explained clearly and then I come back to you and I say ‘Dude, Greg. I got $25,000 in revenue from this. I don’t want to bank it. I want to improve. I want to do the next level up.’ I come back to you and say ‘I think maybe then the next thing to do is to focus on another product or maybe on getting the as seen on’. And that’s when I pay the $6,000 package where you give me the next level up.
Greg: So our book packages start around $3 grand and they go up to $4 to $5 grand depending on if you want custom covers or how many copies of the book do you want. So essentially you can become a best selling author for about $4 grand and it’s about a six to nine month process between writing the chapters, editing, going to cover revisions.
TV shows you’re looking at $6 grand. We do anywhere between six to nine shows a year, just depending on scheduling. We do them all over the country. Actually we’re going to be in Washington, D.C. shooting a show in August. Obviously today we’re in Orlando, Florida shooting a show. We do the ‘Brian Tracy show’ out in San Diego, California so we have different opportunities to be on different shows depending on what’s going to fit best for your business. And we have a couple of different brands of shows as well. We just did the new Masters of Real Estate so for real estate experts to come and do that show. We just did Health and Wellness today.
Andrew: When are you going to be in D.C.? I’m in D.C. for the near future.
Greg: That’s awesome. It’s August, like middle of August, second of August.
Andrew: I’ll figure something out. What else do I want to know? Interviews. You say it’s as easy as doing four interviews and creating a package out of it. How do you turn interviews into a package? I like these interviews to be more useful.
Greg: One of the fastest ways that we teach in our info products on how to make products, I call it Interview Product Pro but essentially the first product I did like this is a grilling product. My buddy was like, “Hey. I’m into grilling and it’s a niche I like. I’d like to do a grilling product”. I was like, all right. So here’s what you do. Go to Amazon.com and search for grilling books. When you search books on grilling on Amazon, on the left hand side there’s a little drop down that says Books that Released on the Last 30 days, books that were released in the last 90 days.
Every single one of those authors wants publicity and promotion for the book that just came out, right? Well, you find the guy who wrote the book about steak. You find the guy who wrote the book about chicken, the guy that wrote the book about fish and the guy who wrote the book about vegetables. Interview each of them for an hour and now you have the four steps to grilling everything in your freezer.
Andrew: I see.
Greg: So how do you marinate your steak? What’s the top seasonings that you buy? How do you go an pick out your steaks? You go to local butcher? You go to Sam’s Club or what do you do? [??] And then you just interview them and you package it together and you still have to find interviews that go together that logically take someone from where they are to where they want to be so in this case was to be a grill master or whatever the case was. So in order to be a grill master you have to master prep work, you have to master going out and finding the right cuts in meat. Then you have to cook chicken, vegetable, fish and steak.
So that’s kind of the avenue that we came out with. Same thing. Get everything transcribed, create a couple of, you know, in this case, we didn’t do a workbook. We just did checklist so that when you went into your butcher, you could say I need this kind of cut of meat, I need this kind of rib eye and this kind of seasoning. It was more check list oriented versus workbook oriented. And then we got the package and I think in that package, he experimented with different things like [??] brand it came with and I’m a Grill Master teacher and kind of funny stuff like that.
Sold the product and there’s all kinds of fun stuff we played around with that. We got like white labels spatula sets and things like that in order to make more of a fun product. But really for me, I break everything down into fours. People can remember fours: four weeks, four steps. It’s about a month, whatever the case is. Find four things. Put them together, then take them from A to B in four steps and I talk really fast. I can tell you’re like ‘Damn. How did he just spit all that out?’
Andrew: I love that. I love that, you know what, one of the things that I love about you is you’re so freaking open. It’s, I don’t even know what to say. Usually we have to spend time pulling information out of guests. You actually were going to it, I’m going to ask you not to do it here but you did the course and you told me how much business you got out of appearing on Mixergy in the course. I was going to say it on Mixergy in this interview and then I thought “If I say it here, people are going to want to appear just to generate revenue from this appearance”. I don’t want that. I want them to be here because they’ve got something strong to say and I don’t want to have to figure out who, I don’t want more people who just want revenue.
So here is what I’m going to suggest. I’m going to ask you one more question about the Emmys, by the way, in a second. Excuse me, the Grammys. But let me suggest this, to anyone in the audience I always say this at the end and I’m going to say this now find a way to say thank you to the guests if you got anything of value from the interview. Greg just gave you his email address, the same one I’m looking at here in my notes to see if he gave you a fake one or same one. I’m looking here in my notes to see if he gave you a fake one, or one for the audience, or what. No. It’s a real one, same one that we’ve been using. Greg@productprosystems.com.
Email him and ask, first of all, say “Thank you’ and then ask him, how much revenue did he earn from the appearance on Maitre’d. If he feels comfortable sharing it with you, he’ll share it with you. I see he gave me the thumbs up. He feels comfortable sharing everything.
Andrew: Ask him what ever you want. Keep a chart, though, please. I hate long emails and I don’t want to them on Greg, so it’s Greg@productprosystems.com.
And I’ll also say, if you’re a Maitre’d premium member, go to mixergpremium.com right now and just take that frikking course. It is that good. It’s one of the best ones that we have in there, and if you’re not a mixergpremium member, why haven’t you signed up? mixerpremiumg.com. It’s just a few bucks a month and I guarantee it. Of course, look at me. I’m right here. I can’t possibly let you down by not giving you your money back if you’re not happy. My face is everywhere here, all over Mixergy.
Andrew: And all of these people I interview would kill me if I didn’t take good care of you. And frankly, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself, either, so, go to mixergypremium.com. The content’s great and of course, I’ll take good care of you. Grammy Awards. How did you guys end up at the Grammys?
Greg: This is honestly and actually one of the questions where, when Jeremy and I were going over the interview, it was just, you know, when was that moment that you thought that, you know, “This is what I’m doing. I love it, I made it.” You know, “I’m super happy.”
I’ll get into the story of how we got there, but, for anyone thinking or wondering, you know, “What are the Grammys like?” They are as cool as you frikking think that they would be. We actually took 20 of our top clients out there; our Mastermind Group, to the Grammys. It’s actually the 3rd or 4th year that Nick has taken his clients out there. This was the 1st year I was able to experience it and bring some of my own clients with his group. Walking the red car-..I got to take my wife out there, first of all. So, for me to be in a tuxedo, her to be in her dress that cost more than I want to admit, but to walk down that red carpet, literally, you walk down one…the red carpet’s huge. It’s about 60 to 80 yards wide, and it’s broken into two sections, so you’ve got the celebrities with all of the cameras on one side and then just, you know, the regular folk, like us on the other side, but you can see right through.
So, I mean, literally, you’re walking down the red carpet. We see Paris Hilton, we saw Kelly Osborne and The Style Show was right there, like, you know, who wore it better or whatever. You know, we’re just going down the aisle, just flashing everywhere and, they don’t let you use cameras or bring cameras anywhere around this, so, literally, we’re on our I-phones and we’re the cheesy people, going, “Hey!”, taking pictures of ourselves, like, with the Grammy things in the background and then we got inside. Actually, this year, we got boxes, because we wanted all 40 of us to be together, so it was 20 clients with their spouses or friends, whoever it was. So we got two boxes and so, skyboxes are able to sit together. It’s in the Staples Center. It was just incredible, and actually, because of our music background, [TD] is an entertainment attorney. He’s actually a Grammy voter, so he gets to vote on the Grammys.
I’m just a member of the Grammy Association because of my history in the music industry and because I have credits on certain albums and things like that, I’m able to be a [TD] of the association and we’re allotted a certain number of tickets every year for that. It’s crazy because it’s a lottery system. It’s literally like a Justin Bieber concert, where they go on sale at 10:00 and they’re sold out by 10:02, so we just have our assistant, like, just hit…
Greg: …redial [TD] second to get them, but, you know, it’s a great bonding experience with our clients. Our clients that came to that, they’ll never forget that moment. You know, this year, we got to see Paul McCartney, we got to see, oh, man. I’m forgetting her name now. Whatever, who ever it was. You know, Bruce Springsteen was there, and it was just…they will never forget that moment. I’ll never forget that moment and you know, it’s just a very powerful thing to do for your clients, and give back to them in the same way that they’ve given us the opportunity to do what we do in our business.
Andrew: All right, the site is productprosystems.com, if anyone wants to go follow up, and of course, it’s just Greg@productprosystems.com if you want to say hi and thank you. I’m going to do it right now, Greg. Thanks for doing this interview.
Greg: Thanks for having me, man. As always, I had a blast.
Andrew: You bet. All right. Hope you come back, and thank you all for watching. Bye.