Psychological triggers that close sales

I freaking love the hustle of today’s guest. I love how she went extra mile to make everything a little bit better.

Tavleen Kaur is the cofounder of BuildWooFunnels, optimized WooCommerce checkout pages, order bump and one-click upsells/downsells.

I want to find out how she tested everything to land on the most clear, concise and incredibly persuasive features on a sales page.

Tavleen Kaur

Tavleen Kaur


Tavleen Kaur is the cofounder of BuildWooFunnels, optimized WooCommerce checkout pages, order bump and one-click upsells/downsells.


Full Interview Transcript

Andrew: Hey there, freedom fighters. My name is Andrew Warner. I’m the founder of Mixergy, where I interview entrepreneurs about how they built their businesses. A few weeks ago, I got a new sponsor, which you’ll find out about in a moment. I emailed the audience. I said, does anyone have any experience working with, I should say it’s SEMrush.

Does anyone have any experience working with SEM rush? I want to know how it works. This woman Tavleen Kaur sends me an email saying, yes, I do. I say how she sends me a video that she sends internally to her team explaining how to use SEM rush. This thing is so well presented. So organized, so clear and just amazing that she’s using this tool to grow her business.

But to me, the more impressive part is how she’s explaining it. So then I go to her website, it’s called BuildWooFunnels. And I see, well, this makes sense. It’s a way of creating these beautiful checkout pages and order bumps, one click, upsells, all these different things that you want to have a sales process that grows your sales.

And of course, I click on the video to get a sense of who’s this person. And she’s got explainer videos explaining what her plugins do. Super short, very clear, incredibly persuasive. I started chatting with her via email and I say, Can I interview you on Mixergy? And she said, sure. And I realized she’s in India, which frankly, more and more of my audience, more and more of the people I interview are in India.
I say the hours are going to be nuts. How do I not make it nuts for you? I’m find a way to make it work. So here she is to Tavleen Kaur. She is the cofounder of BuildWooFunnels. It’s a sales funnel set of tools for woo commerce. Um, and what time is it where you are right now?

Tavleen: 12:44 AM.
Andrew: Look at that 12:44 AM.
You’re not at home because.

Tavleen: I couldn’t trust my internet at home.

Andrew: I freaking love the hustle. I love the extra mile that you go through to make everything a little bit better than it could have been if you just showed up. All right, we’re going to find out how she built this company. Thanks to two phenomenal sponsors. I actually don’t even know if SCM rush bought an ad in this interview or not, but I’m just going to stick them in because it fits so well.

Ditto. And I’ll tell you guys why SCM actually, Kathleen, I’ll ask her how she’s using SEM rush to grow her traffic. And the second sponsor again, I don’t know if it fits, but, um, since we’re talking about WooCommerce, you can host school commerce sites on host Gator. I’m just going to do an ad for host Gator here, whether they paid for it or not, it just fits too well, but first, heavily in good to have a year.

Tavleen: Thank you. It’s my pleasure. I’m absolutely honored. I’m literally like Mixergy was a dream and this is a dream come true.

Andrew: here. Um, tell me, what’s your revenue?

Tavleen: well I’m not supposed to reveal it, so I would just say we’re working on it. Uh, like our solutions are working on about 7,200 stores. So that’s the number I can give

Andrew: 7,200 stores and people can pay how.

Tavleen: So we have different licenses. Like you, you can have like business license, which is just by our one site license, and then you can have five site license, so you can have an agency license. So yes, we have different formats. And, uh, based on what your requirements are like, uh, you know, people choose to pay.

Andrew: And it’s all software as a service ongoing revenue you shared, I should say with the audience, we talked about your numbers before, but I gave a Tivoli my word that I would not reveal the number. It’s very impressive. before this. You were working at several companies around electric cars, including Mahindra what’s Mahindra.

And what were you doing there?

Tavleen: So my agenda is actually very, uh, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a big conglomerate and it’s a very big Indian, uh, company, which kind of specialize in automobiles having they have an automobile division. at the time they acquired an electric because of the required, really small electric vehicle company based out of Bangalore it’s just interesting.

So I was actually at a press conference of this, company I was really, uh, you know, I just started to believe in electric cars, and I thought that, you know, the revolution is coming and it’s just going to change the way things work. And I was following Elon Musk I was following Steve jobs at that point.
So yeah, 25 year old girl, really, really happy about what was happening and how things were changing. And I really wanted to be part of that revolution. So, I did like a little speech, a little note, and, you know, I just got up and that first conference that I, and I, read out what I had written it was like really my belief in the technology my environment. The founder was so impressed that he just said, you know, you’re hired. Things worked out and I just went to work in that company. And, you know, I went in with this really big mission that I’m going to make an impact. And you know, I’m going to be part of this company, which is changing things, but turns out that wasn’t the case at all. the product wasn’t great.
the cheap plastics, the product wasn’t really, really great. so what I realized was that my job was actually convincing people that they should buy electric just because, It’s important to go green and it’s not the time to still go the conventional route.

Internal combustion engines and all of that. And, you know, it’s a sustainable thing to do. It’s a better thing to do, but really that desirability element was missing. So that’s where I learned my first lesson in marketing as well. You’ve got to evoke desire. If you need to sell something

Andrew: And that the greater good amorphous this will be better for the world message is not nearly as powerful as I want this. It helps my life right now.

Tavleen: Yes. That’s right. Yes. So that doesn’t work,

Andrew: You know what I think about that a lot, where they’re like a lot of companies who say, people want to buy local to support local stores. They might, I say that, but in reality, if Amazon offers them fine, 5% cheaper, 10 cents off of pickles, they’ll go to Amazon. Right. And have it delivered. And so when you were working there, when you’re saying that you tried to convince people to buy this car, because it’s for the betterment of the world and it is the future, how did you do this video somewhere else?
Tavleen: we were doing events. Oh, you know, we were sponsoring events like cricket matches and, and, uh, you know, fashion shows was in, uh, smaller towns and all of that. And actually I was going there and I was representing the company. I was talking to people, uh, you know, so a lot of parents would actually come because their kids would pull them to the store.

Uh, you know, and, um, I kind of, because of the car. It looked cute, you know? And then they had like really cool colors, like blue, red, yellow, so the colors. Great. Um, so the car would really look cool. So, you know, uh, the children that they would pull their parents and they would show a lot of interest. But again, like I said, you know, nobody would spend that much money unless.

They are defined it really desirable. And then there were issues like it was just a two door car. It was really small. And then, you know, kind of that first question was okay, will I be able to take it to that temple 200 kilometers away from my house? And I’d be like, no, it’s, you know, what about the range?

Like, you know, you understand how this works, right? So yeah, all of those things. And, um, as I said, we always get stopped in those conversations. So I also went once to, uh, kind of, it was a conducted training. Um, with all those people, we were sitting in the call center who were taking up questions like these are a daily basis and they were struggling with the same thing.

Um, cause you couldn’t convince people on the cost benefit at the end of the day, the battery was really expensive. And then you had to replace it after a period of time. That’s it four or five years. And then, you know, the cost would, there wasn’t any cost dynamics here. Like there was no cost benefit here.
And then, so there were so many compromises they had to make, so they would never get convinced.
Andrew: Meanwhile, your husband was working on Upwork. Doing what?

Tavleen: So he was actually running an agency himself and he had a few people working with him for him. And, uh, he was taking up, uh, you know, work from different agencies based in the US, who would outsource and work to create websites. And his speciality is core specialties with WordPress and WooCommerce and, um, Yeah.

So that’s why that’s where, like, it really started to build an expertise in WordPress and WooCommerce. Uh, and he was kind of getting frustrated at his own end, where he was like, okay, you know, for how long am I going to do this? And, uh, uh, you know, he had almost hit a wall where he was like, okay, you know, what’s beyond this, like what’s next?

And, uh, cause he’s very, I think he’s got a very strong intuition. So he was like, this is not going to last for a very long time. For sure. So yeah.

Andrew: And at some point, he said, you know what? I have an idea for a plugin. This could be the thing that transitions me away from doing client work, to having software that sells that I can sell and brings in ongoing revenue. What was the first plug in idea?

Tavleen: Yes. So, uh, yeah, so he came to me and he said that, uh, you know, I’m going to create these seven triggers, uh, for product pages that will basically make a product page more persuasive, and it will encourage people to, uh, you know, buy. And I, and I thought maybe, you know, he, he’s wanting me to write a blog post with seven points.

And so. But it turns out it was actually a product idea you want to do, you know, put together seven triggers and you got the sales triggers and, you know, he said, all right, why don’t you help me market this? So, um, I just thought that was something, you know, um, again, like, uh, because on one hand I was, uh, I was really, uh, uh, gonna make a dent in this space of electric vehicles.

And on the other end, you know, you know, you was telling me to write something for product pages. That was no match, but, uh, you know, I thought, okay, it’s the, let me, let me just see what happens. I wasn’t interested in adults, but then I just thought, well, let me pick this up and kind of see how it goes. So, yeah, so that’s what I did.

I think the first thing that I did was I just created seven different, uh, tutorial videos, explaining every trigger and you know, why they needed what it would do and, uh, you know, triggers, like what, what would putting a guarantee badge on your product page to what. Well, you know, what would putting a best seller in XYZ category due to your product page and your sales?

So I just started doing videos, standards, meaning all of this. I put together like a sales copy, uh, for, for a marketplace. Uh, cause we were going to send it to a marketplace. We didn’t think that we could build a website.

Andrew: What was the marketplace?

Tavleen: uh, it was called CodeCanyon. Yeah. So

Andrew: And Envato marketplace it. So what he was thinking was if we could put these little psychological triggers on pages that tell people this is the bestseller and a category or, or this guaranteed people are more likely to buy. And so if you could explain that to store owners, they would buy the software, try it on their sales pages.

See if it increased sales. If it did great, they’ll keep on buying from you. If not, they could always remove it. And that was your job. And the reason that he wanted you was you were an evangelist for an electric vehicle at a time price point. And so many other reasons that it didn’t make sense. And he said, if you’re good at selling that you’re going to be able to do this.

You also have a background in journalism. So he thought you could explain it. You guys launched it. How did it do, how did that first plug into.

Tavleen: Oh, really did well by our standards. I mean, considering that, you know, we came from, we had no experience. I wasn’t even doing district marketing. Like I had zero experience in digital marketing. I know no ads. I’d never run ads, never written a sales copy. I didn’t know what that even means. Never sent an email beyond the professional emails, you know, that we sent.

So, um, you know, so definitely be with something very new, but yes, when the reviews started pouring in, like even we were kind of blown away by what we’d done. So revenues were like nothing, nothing close to what they are today. They would definitely be very low. But what I really mean is that it gave us. A lot of confidence because people start shaking or saying that you’re old, this is going to fly off your shelves.

You know, this is exactly what I needed, why doesn’t blue commerce have it, you know, so stuff like that. And we thought that was really encouraging, especially at that point in time when we were really looking for, uh, you know, for, for, for a way to kind of get out of what we were doing. So it

Andrew: What were you selling it for? How much?

Tavleen: Awesome. It was $19, $29

Andrew: One time price,

Tavleen: Sorry.

Andrew: $29 in one time fee, not an ongoing.

Tavleen: Uh, yes, it was a one time. Yeah, that’s right. And then also I think in motto did keep a card

Andrew: Right. That’s how you got your customers by being on the Enbato marketplace.

Tavleen: Yes, yes. That’s right.

Andrew: And the reason that he knew that this would make sense is because he had just done so many WooCommerce sites. And I guess we should explain, woo commerce is a way of building a store on a WordPress site. WordPress free will commerce free.

Right. Um, but. I find that in many ways will commerce is lacking. And so you found one, one hole in the system and he knew that this was missing and that this would work because of his experience building WooCommerce, you built it, it starts to sell. What’s the next thing that you guys do then?

Tavleen: Oh, okay. So, uh, yeah, so definitely I think you’re right in pointing out. So he did have a lot of experience in building WooCommerce sites for clients, and that did you know that didn’t give him the edge? So technically there was this competence within the team to be able to build something like this. And he kind of knew that this is going to fly off.

Uh, like it’s gonna work. Like there is a need for it at these doctors there. Um, So after that big, we did another plugin, which is called finale, which had you put like a, which helps you. So we still sell finale. It helps you put sales countdown timer  on your WooCommerce website and pre the deals page where you’re going to list all the deals that you have currently going on in your store.

Andrew: And how did that one sell also through the Enbato marketplace? Also one time fee, is that right?

Tavleen: no. So that time we just decided to create our own website.

because obviously, uh, you know, it was very obvious that the market place was going to take a significant gut. It was very important to create your own, you create your own home, your own shop start selling through your own, uh, through your own website.

So you do not have to give a cut to anyone. So that became that July. So my husband asked me this question, creating our own website done. working your ass off to put that structure together, but it also means, uh, uh, being able to drive traffic. Uh, so yeah, so that’s how I started kind of picking up the ropes.

I started learning copywriting. I started learning, uh, ads. Facebook ads, uh, you know, all of that stuff. I started writing emails. I mean, I used to cringe at the part of writing an email, but yeah. Then I realized there is no escaping this, but, um, but find any, uh, you know, we, we had something which we could call our own.

So I think that there was a lot of, um, uh, there was a lot of high in that. So I focused let, let me, let me pick up the courses that you just learn whatever’s needed and yeah,

Andrew: Let me pause for a second. The nice thing about Enbato is it’s a marketplace they’re delivering customers to you. Once you moved to your own site, how did you in the beginning get anyone to even notice that you existed? What was, what were some of the techniques you use to bring people over before you took the courses before you started learning how to do this?


Tavleen: That’s right? Yes. So that was one major driver of sales and traffic. Um, Which was what So what we did was, uh, so let’s say we have eight features, uh, you know, we give three of them for free and we put it up on So, and then we wrote like an SEO friendly copy on for anyone searching for WooCommerce, see it’s down on timer code, correct.

Kind of land on that page. And then we would direct them to the main finale sales page. Like that’s how the funnel really worked.

Andrew: Got it. So freemium, they get the plugin for free discovery comes in from them, from the WordPress marketplace, and then there’s an opportunity to get an upsell. That’s great. And then you started teaching yourself how to do online marketing. What did you learn? That was, that was especially helpful. And we’re talking about still the first version of your business, which was, it was called XL plugins.


Tavleen: yes.

Andrew: yeah. What, what did you learn that was especially helpful back then?

Tavleen: Oh, wow. Lots of things. I mean, I, I think the most important thing was, uh, uh, really stocked with, uh, you know, what you want to, what emotion you really wants to evoke in the person who’s reading your book. Copy or your blog or whatever. So what’s that emotion, which, which you really want that person to feel, you know, do you want them to feel excited?

Do you want them to feel all fired up and then, you know, you kind of have to sound like so, um, you know, I think that that was, that was a big learning. So really doing that. At singing off it like an energy, uh, and, uh, you know, you, you, you’ve got to sort of fire if you want to really fire them up so that they kind of click on the buy button.

Then you’ve got to sound like that your tone of voice needs to be like that as well.

Andrew: How did you know what? Well, first of all, I noticed some typos in the first version of your sales message, small things. I don’t even think most people would notice it, but I do at some point that went away. Did you start bringing in a group or someone to help with grammar, someone to help with, uh, with the text?

Tavleen: uh, w do you talking about

Andrew: I mean, the two of you, did you, or you personally, if you’re in charge of the copy at some point it was, it was always clear. And then at some point it became more polished. How did it, how’d you take it to that level?

Tavleen: uh, no, it was always me,

Andrew: It’s just always, you just editing yourself, being harder on your work than you

Tavleen: yes, yes, yes, yes. It’s just, it’s been me right from the beginning till now. Yeah.

Andrew: I thought maybe you went out and you brought in like a, I’ve talked to several agencies that will do this. You just submit your work to them. They give you feedback, they adjust it, but you’re not even using any of them.

Tavleen: No, no, not until now.

Andrew: Okay. I saw that you then started adding, I guess next move maybe is one of the next plugins. How did you know what to build after, after the first couple?

Tavleen: Okay. So what happened was that there were a lot of interactions that we were able to do with WooCommerce store owners, uh, after our first two products. And these were actually a, you know, not a one on one calls, uh, as well. Um, so. I mean, insights just started coming in. I mean, really, we didn’t have to, uh, kind of, uh, you know, start from a blank page, but we really began to understand, uh, what, what issue they were facing and what WooCommerce really didn’t have and what they wanted and, you know, stuff like that.

So, um, they started giving us the insights and we just had to work. On them. And, you know, we just had to kind of prioritize them and, and start working on them even they would, they would actually even tell us, okay, we have a feature request and a, and then, you know, they will tell us that, and this,

Andrew: You mean your clients, would

Tavleen: yes,

Andrew: they say, this is the thing that stinks about Wolf will commerce. Can you fix this for me? I just need this one little thing and then you’d start to see patterns.

Tavleen: Yes. We started to see patterns. Yes. So we, we really started to prioritize, you know, what, what’s important, what is it that more people are saying? So we just kept our years open years and eyes opened. And I think that really acted, uh, you know, in our favor. And we were very open to feedback, very open to, uh, insights, very open to, uh, you know, what, what our customers were saying, listening to them.

Uh, and, uh, yeah, that’s how it, it just one thing it’s connected to another and it just started to go on.

Andrew: I’m reading your sales copy. It’s making me smile as I’m researching, as you’re talking. I’m going back and researching what you’re saying and I’m reading some of it, uh, underneath the, the button for get next move from my store. Next move is the thank you page after a sale, right?

Tavleen: Yes,

Andrew: Why, why do you call it next move?

Tavleen: because it was okay. So the idea was that on the thank you page. Yeah. We don’t want you to end the relationship over there. Like that’s should not be the dead end and you know, it should not be the conversion of the conversation. The stopper should actually. Uh, sort of start a new relationship.

It should make people bounce back and kind of maybe again, or recommend your store to other people or do a social share or something, or the other, which we even recommended people to kind of put, put a video, thanking them, maybe a minute video, uh, and, and really saying that, you know, thank you so much for taking the time.

And, uh, thank you so much for coming over to our store and making a purchase of meat means a lot to us. So really making that personal, uh, connect with people.

Andrew: As a coupon. Now this will expire very soon. Go buy, go buy something else or share it with someone else. Um, but I like under the button that says, I get next move from my store, or it says click here to explore our wallet, wooing pricing plans. Um, alright, I’m gonna come back and I want to understand how you went from individual plugins to then this suite, this collection that, um, That then became your bestseller, right?

Build Wu funnels is the big suite that, that you grew into. But first I’ll talk about my first sponsor. It’s HostGator. I tell people that HostGator is a great place to go host your WordPress site. Mixergy is hosted on HostGator. Um, but when it comes to saying, you can also add WooCommerce to host Gator. I get feedback from people saying why not Shopify?

So let me ask you this. Why, why will commerce over Shopify? What’s the advantage?

Tavleen: Oh, wow. Great question. So, uh, well simply because WooCommerce is extremely flexible, uh, you know, it, it is very, very flexible and it, it gives you a whole host of customization options. Uh, so there are, uh, you know, there are our clients who are basically using WooCommerce because if. Just because of the ease of use and the flexibility that you have here, you can use plugin for just about anything that you want.

And, uh, you know, it kind of lets you do lots of customizations to our stores. A lot of high end, uh, store owners are actually using WooCommerce as well. Again because of the amount of customization options that exist

Andrew: And you can customize more than you could with Shopify.

Tavleen: Yes, definitely.

Andrew: you have an example of something? Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

Tavleen: Uh, yeah, so I was just saying, God, that also in terms of pricing, WooCommerce is, is lot more affordable than Shopify is, uh, you know, because, uh, in Shopify there are every app, like, you know, you’ve got to pay a munchie fees for it, whereas that’s not the case with WooCommerce and also Shopify itself.

Like the platform is also, uh, because it’s, uh, it’s a SAS platform it’s like more expensive than, uh, than MooCommerce to own run and maintain.

Andrew: Oh skater. You’re talking about like under five bucks a month to be able to, to host and experiment. Uh, do you have an example of something you could do on WooCommerce that you can’t do on Shopify of some flexibility? Some addition.

Tavleen: so, uh, basically, all right, so let me give you an example here, so, okay. I have a great example. Uh, so think about it. If you, if you just talk about one click upsells, uh, so, uh, You know, Shopify also allows you to do one click upsells. There’s an app that allows you to do one click upsells.

And even in WooCommerce, you can do one click upsells using, let’s say upstroke so, you know, you’re using upstroke now we’ve given a deep compatibility or integrator with elementary and elementary is a WordPress. Page builder. So you can make your upset page, look exactly how you want. You know, you’ve got these customized widgets, uh, you know, you can, you can put whatever you like on the page, you can make it look however you want as professional as you want, as polished as you want.

Uh, and so on because you know, elementary is like a really popular page builder and what dress and. Uh, it’s got, I think, 5 million active installs, and it’s, it’s super powerful, extremely easy to use because they’ve made it really big in our family. And what we’ve done is that we’ve put like 10 widgets inside of elementary that allow you to customize your upsell pages.

So that’s the kind of, uh, you know, uh, Again, that’s the kind of customization that’s the kind of flexibility would just doesn’t exist in Shopify. So a, you know, a lot of people who want to go beyond that stage off, uh, just being beginners and just, you know, kind of, uh, trying to, uh, sort of see if they can get some sales from that store.

Those have moved to some kinds of serious level. They are the ones who actually come into WooCommerce and stick with it.

Andrew: All right. If anyone out there is interested in trying this out, all you do is go to When you go to slash mixer G um, you’ll give you the lowest price they have available. It’s already super low. They’re just taking a few pennies off, frankly, to be honest with you guys, it gives you, it gives me because you’re signing up under my URL and I appreciate you for doing it.

But what you get is insight. I’m talking about. I remember seeing that big button too WordPress. So I signed up super easy payment plan. And then next pages, this button, and you get word, press, press this button, new, get commerce. And now you’re up and running with the store. If you’re curious about how to set it up, this is an easy way to get started, an easy way to play around.

And then if you decide that you want to close it. No big deal. They’ve got a money back guarantee. If you decide that you don’t like HostGator, no big deal. You can just transfer it over to any other hosting company that you want. And if you decide you love it and you want to grow with it, you’ve got so many different plugins, so many different, um, so many different tools that will enable you to make your store more powerful.

If you haven’t done this yet. And you’re looking for something to play around with, this is your chance to do it. Even while you’re watching Netflix, keep it on one portal, one corner of your laptop. And then go to and play around and install it. And when you’re ready to really kick your sales into high gear, check out a build Wu funnels, which is what type of lean created.

I think once you see their website, you’ll see how beautiful it is. It’s one of the many options that you have for making your story your own. If you host it with HostGator, inexpensive, very flexible, go to, M I X ERG Y to get that deal. All right. At what point did you say? All right, we can go bigger than individual products.

We can do this big suite.

Tavleen: Oh, wow. Uh, so, uh, I think it was, it was never, uh, you know, I I’m thinking it happened like that. It wasn’t ever like, okay, we’re going to go big with this. Uh, it was like, okay, what’s the next problem that we can solve? Cause, uh, you know, we were always thinking about what’s, what’s the next thing that we can do, uh, for, for people who are already trusting us.

Uh, so much. So I think that’s where the drive really came from. And then, um, one click upsells is something that, uh, you know, it was, uh, that, that we discovered, uh, accidentally and turns out that at that time there was just one other company which was actually selling a solution, a OneClickUpsell solution for WooCommerce and, um, That really wasn’t a complete solution.

There were many, many features, which weren’t there. So, you know, so, uh, so yeah, that’s what that’s what really happened. So it wasn’t really a complete solution. Wasn’t offering everything that a person needed in order to be able to one click upsell, uh, on their WooCommerce store. And that’s where this idea came from that, you know, why not create, uh, an own, like a comparator for this product and why not create a OneClickUpsell solution, which has.

All the features that we’re thinking of, uh, which can work on  right.

Andrew: So start with the idea that we need one click upsell, and then, well, if we’re going to do it, let’s add these features in this feature. And then before you knew it, you ended up with build Wolf funnels.

Tavleen: Yeah. So, um, yeah, so one pickups that was definitely our first product. Uh, now let me just, uh, explain you how things work. So I’m, I’m sure you’ve, uh, you’ve probably done the one click buy on Amazon. I mean, it’s something that I’m personally really addicted to. I never, you know, go through the conventional checkout process.

It’s always. The one click buy and sometimes like to swipe, to buy and, you know, it’s kind of really addictive and it just makes you come back to the store again and again. Uh, and also there was this really interesting thing in the, in, in, you know, in the, in the physical world and the, the real world, um, which I think Disney came up with to increase their average order value and they call it like magic flashbacks.

So it’s like, um, You got to wear those bands when you go to Disneyland and, uh, you know, whatever you want, you just flash a band and your payment gets deducted. That’s if we’re just one flash, you know, one flash of the list and the payment is. So, uh, and that he had them increase their average order value just because of the ease involved, you know, people could pay with a lot of ease and, uh, uh, it was really convenient, uh, to, to make a purchase.

And that is exactly what, you know, one click up sell is in the, in the online world. It’s that. Disney magic Flashband so you just flash a band and then you make a book that whole bane of potting with money in the hood pain of like, kind of typing your credit card details all over again is just gone, you know?

So your

Andrew: Wait, it’s gone because we just did it the way that I see one click upsells. And when I see it done well, it’s just so convenient. So helpful. It’s you buy something like you go to Harry’s, you buy some razors and then at the end, I think after you pay, they say. We’ll give you a mixed mystery box. We promise it will be worth more than the $5 that you’re gonna pay that you’re gonna pay.

I just put in my credit card, I don’t have to do anything. I just have to hit this one button $5 more. Great. Let’s just see what happens. You hit the button. That’s that’s what we’re talking about, right?

Tavleen: that’s right. Yes. And yes. Uh, so, uh, you know, like creating personalized pages, like creating pages, but say, Hey Andrew, you know, you just bought razors. Would you

Andrew: Right because you’ve got my name from before and it feels like it’s more unique to what I just bought. Andrew, because you bought this, you can also get that with one click ups. Do you have a sense of what percentage of people take these upsells? I’m going to guess. Let me don’t even tell me, I’m going to guess.

It’s at least 25%.

Tavleen: Yes. It is more than that. Yes.

Andrew: which is phenomenal.

Tavleen: Exactly. I mean, it just completely changes your game, you know, the amount of money that you spend on ads, but dicing and then bringing the customer over. And then, you know, they just check out with a minimal order spend. That’s not done. I mean, here you have an opportunity to maximize their order value.

So like, you know, just by putting like really strategic one pickup sells and it’s not that you’re annoying. It’s not that, you know, you’re, you’re pitching them something they don’t need. It’s really, really strategic. It’s aligned with what they’ve just bought and. You don’t want to fire clients. It’s really interesting.

So he sells like skincare products and he says that whatever product is advertising, a person just comes in the store and buys that one product and checks out and then he’s gone and he’s a one and done buyer, you know, just bought her once and then he’s lost. He never even explored the other products that he has in his store.

So he looks at one click upsells as just as an opportunity to introduce them to the other products that he’s

Andrew: yeah, right, right. We go into buy this one thing. That’s all we’re thinking of. We’re almost have blinders on until we get the thing. And then to be told, well, you know, we also have this other stuff. I see that a lot with, um, masks. We’ve been buying tons of masks for my kids because you can’t get them into schools without masks.

And they’re very finicky about what’s on their masks and you gotta get them to do it and feel comfortable. Right? So you go to these stores, all you’re looking at is I just need fricking masks. The kid likes a mask with a dinosaur, let’s go and then move on. And I don’t need another mask from the store.

Again, you’re saying that’s an opportunity for them to say. By the way we make a lot of other clothes for kids that you might like, by the way, if you think this is fun, here’s our shirts or our socks or whatever else they make. That’s also fun. Right? So it’s an opportunity to say you got what you needed the pressure’s off.

Now. Just notice that we sell other things. Even if you don’t buy now, you might buy later because you recognize us for this.

Tavleen: Exactly. Yes. And again, it’s a, again, I’m going to go back to the Disney example. I love it so much, but yes. Uh, you know, so if you you’ve probably experienced this as well, so. You buy the tickets and then you go in, you take a ride, maybe a toy story, right. Or whatever. And then the kinds of, they don’t just send you out.

Like they’ll just open the doors and send you out to actually finally you win into the salvinia shop or something where you can buy more stuff related to the character which you just saw. And the whole idea is that there’s a perfect alignment. You know, they’re not want to show you Mickey mouse and all they’ll show you toy story souvenirs and some figures and all of that, uh, you know, that you can, you can buy and it just becomes like a really obvious extension of what you just saw.

And yeah, a lot of people end up converting just because of the whole, you know, you’re already, you’re convinced that you love that character. You convinced, uh, that, uh, um, yeah, that’s something which fascinated you. And then the next obvious thing is to buy more stuff.

Andrew: Okay. So I know that as somebody who has been looking at software for e-commerce for years, it was shockingly missing. The OneClickUpsell was shockingly missing from all platforms. You recognize that you jumped in the leap though from. Did you start off by selling? Just that, because to me, the leap from that to here’s the all in one solution, I find order bumps to be less obvious, but wow.

Is it amazing as someone who, so, but how do you take the first launched the upsell and then go in and fill in with more? You did.

Tavleen: Uh, yes. So, uh, we did launch the one pickup cell first, and then it was the checkout and checkout came with bump basically. Cause the bump is on the, on the checkout page and again, yes, bumps are insanely effective as

Andrew: Can you describe what those are? I feel like it took me years to understand what it was. It wasn’t until I got into ClickFunnels that I realized, Oh, wait, this is amazing. Tell people what that is.

Tavleen: An order bump. Yeah. Okay. So it’s basically an offer on the checkout page. And the idea is, let’s say you’re buying a book, a physical version of the book, and then the order bump says, Hey, would you like an audio version of the same book? And then you kind of say yes, and you check the box and. That audio version of the book gets added to your order and your order daughter’s updated and sweet is, is yours now.

And you can, you can check out with a higher order value, which is great for a, you know, the store owner and also for you. Cause you’ve got the audio version now have instant access to just plug your, your phones and yeah. Stop listening. So yeah, it’s kind of a. Win win situation. And the best bumps are actually win-win.

It has to add value to the main purchase that the customer’s making. And I was recently I’ll be talking to, uh, one of my, uh, one of our team who actually runs an agency and for his client, he implemented order bump. And he said that it had like a 60% take up rate. So 60% of people who are checking out.

Roughly just adding that order bump, uh, to their order. Uh, so it was an, uh, I also want to really talk about, uh, you know, another customer who actually sells. Uh, so she says courses on how to do cook, cooking, like how to do, how to cook your food, like the traditional cookie. And, um, so it was really interesting.

He was selling the $0 order bump, which was actually a free trial offer to a membership site. And so you just add it and you’re like, Oh, this is a $0. Right. So you just add it, but it’s actually a 14 day trial. And after that you do get built that’s right. And so she, she, she told us that she had. A lot more members, uh, you know, signing up for the membership and staying in, even though the retention rates are pretty, uh, pretty kick ass, you know, because if you order bump over there.

So a lot of people got familiar with a membership offer, which they otherwise wouldn’t have had the odd bump not been there. So that’s the value that it adds.

Andrew: upsell is on the confirmation page, a sale is over and they say, now that you’re done, you can get this. The order bump is on the, on the page with the credit card, just a little check box that says, do you want this? It’s unchecked people check it. And then they get it by the way. What, what, uh, how do you guys tie in with people’s membership so that you can charge an ongoing fee?

How do you do that?

Tavleen: Perfect. So that’s why I was, you know, that’s what I was done talking about it, the customization and the flexibility. So I, yeah, this is the right time for me to really explain this. So WooCommerce has a plugin, which is that a Fisher, a WooCommerce subscriptions, plugin, and WooCommerce membership plugin.

So, what we’ve done is that we provide like a deep compatibility with it, which allows you to upsell, uh, you know, order like sort of, uh, add the, I mean, offer subscription based products as an order bump. Uh, you know, so yeah, even with variable products, we’re like DP compatible. So let’s say if you want you to upset a tee shirt or maybe a sipper.

And, you know, you want them to be able to choose whether they want a small, medium, or large size, so you can, uh, again, uh, you know, offer that option. They can choose the right variant for themselves. So same goes for subscription. So since we have a deep compatibility there, you can upset subscription based products as you order bum.

Andrew: That’s the beautiful thing about just using the tools within WordPress we’ll commerce, both owned by the same company. It’s that they start to tie in well together and connect and I can see how one would lead to the other. All right. And so you had the, the order bump, the OneClickUpsell and then at some point you realize, you know what, we have the whole funnel, right.

Tavleen: Yes. Yes.

Andrew: that’s when go ahead.

Tavleen: Uh, yeah. So, uh, like you have to do that all different products, which actually make up a funder. Um, now when it comes to one click upsells, um, so early on what we had was it, wasn’t a very flexible, uh, solution. So in the sense that, uh, Yeah. Uh, you, you had, you had an upset and then through every off cell, there was a, there was a down set and then there was another upset and so on.

So then what we did was, okay, let’s let’s break the ties. Uh we’ve we introduced something called dynamic upset parts where didn’t, you can actually make connections between different offers. So let’s say you bought something and now we made an upsale. If you said, yes, we could, we would send you to a different funnel.

And if you said, no, we could send you to a completely different funnel. So, you know, that has its own branches. So it’s become like a tree now. So it’s, it’s really, it’s an infinite funnel you can go for as long as you want, you know, until your client is saying, yes, you can keep on introducing them to more products.

And if they are consistently saying, no, you can just terminate the funding at any point and then send them to the thank you page.

Andrew: Got it. And so it seems like what you’re saying is we started out with this one thing that we knew people needed, which is upsells, but then there’s so many other pieces that connected in that we finally turned it into a funnel system and that’s when we launched build Wu funnels. And that became a product that has all these features in it.

Am I right?

Tavleen: So actually I would say that a bit funnels sells different, uh, you know, different, uh, plugins. So all of these different solutions, you know, they are not, uh, they’re not together. Uh, you know, as in, we’re not, I’m not selling you like a complete back, uh, you know, you can have different solutions. So if, if let’s say, if it were a makeup kit, then you could have the foundation separately and you could have the, the lip color separately.

So it’s like that. So the view, the

Andrew: Ah, okay. I see it now. I see it now. So arrow is your, is your checkout page, which just looks really nice. And when someone types in their address, you use Google to automatically get their proper address. So they don’t have to type in everything. Um, Google starts to fill in, but I could buy just that checkout page, just that design and nothing else.

If I won the upsell, I could buy that. It’s still Allah cart. It’s just that with build real funnels, it fits so well together that in my mind, I keep imagining it all as one tool, but it’s not, I could buy just several ones I want, or I can buy them all and have them work together.

Tavleen: Yes, because the idea of was, I mean, even the one click upsells on great, uh, you know, turns out not everyone would want to, would want to do it. So that’s fine. If you only want to kind of replace your default WooCommerce checkout page with a better looking checkout page with a more conversion focused checkout page.

That’s all right, too. So, you know, we’ll give you just the checkout page solution. So we didn’t want you to really tie them in and kind of, you know, pay for the one pickup sale as well, in case they don’t need it.

Andrew: Let me see, do you guys use it? OneClickUpsell on your page? You kind of do. It looks like I just clicked on arrow for arrow basic that’s $79 a year. That’s your landing page. I mean, that’s your checkout page, but then right underneath it, there’s a check box that says, well, you could upgrade to pro for just $20 more.

Or you can upgrade to business, upgrade to business for an additional $20 beyond that. Right.

Tavleen: He was like, yeah. And here’s the hack. If you actually sort of click on the buy button for the highest plan, you wouldn’t see the lower two.

Andrew: Ah, that’s great. Right. You don’t try to down sell me on that. Got it. All right. Let me take a moment to talk about my, my second sponsor. And then we’ll come back and understand a little bit more about your marketing. My second sponsor actually is SCM rush. How are you using SEM rush?

Tavleen: Oh, wow. Uh, actually, uh, I started using them, uh, you know, pretty recently it’s been about a few months now and I’m kind of really blown away. Uh, and I’m like, why didn’t I actually find them earlier? So, um, Uh, I was using a really basic what research tool prior to this. Uh, but, uh, SEM rush is definitely a game changer.

And one of the features that particularly enjoying is the SEO content template, where you can just scan a keyword and then it kind of gives you. Uh, you know, all the related keywords that you need to have on your, in your, in your posts and also the possible places for where you should get backlinks in order to make your posts more SEO friendly.

So that’s what I’m really enjoying about it. And, uh, you know, also, um, I mean, I can, I can assure you, like, if you take any of your blog posts and whatever keyword that you’re targeting with that blog post, if you just put into the SEO content template and then you’ll get all those related keywords and just use them in your blog post and increase the frequency, maybe use every, try to use every keyword, at least once, if you can use more than once then even better.

And I can assure you, the rankings will improve like that. You will see a bump in your rankings cause I’ve done it. And I’m speaking out of experience, uh, you know, it happens

Andrew: So you, you put in a keyword and it suggests related keywords that you should also include in your article. And then it says here’s a list of sites that you should be asking for links to this article that you create. And then you can go in and decide which one is a fit, and you can write a custom message to each one, ask them for a link, but how do you know which he were to start with?

Does it tell you that too?

Tavleen: Uh, so there is something called keyword overview. Uh, I mean, I mean, you need to really come up with some basic keyword, uh, that, uh, you know,

Andrew: Meaning for yourself, you might decide, you might think, you know, what we need is one click up sell, or what, what is it?

Tavleen: Yeah. I was just saying WooCommerce checkout, but yes, one pickups

Andrew: Got it. So you might say we want one click up sell, or what was that tool that you were talking about earlier? The one that makes creating pages easy on WordPress, um,

Tavleen: And a mantra.

Andrew: Yeah. Elementor so you might say Elementor OneClickUpsell in case someone’s looking for the combination, you type in those keywords, and then they give you other keywords that you should consider because people are looking for those keywords too.

Tavleen: Yes. And it also tells you like the keyboard search volume in the U S and also the global volume. So that helps you understand whether, you know, you should be going off to that keyword or will it be a complete waste of your time and energy? Cause if it, if it has like 10, 20, uh, you know, searches per month, then it doesn’t make sense to go after it.

And then it also gives you a keyword difficulty. So I usually go after keywords, which have like a difficulty for about 30 to 40, uh, cause that’s like a good score. Like if it’s very difficult, if it’s like, it’s, it’s out of hundred. So if it’s like, um, of course maybe 70, 80, then no way it’s 20, 20, you,

Andrew: Too competitive

Tavleen: I said, just don’t go after it.

You waste your time, effort and energy doesn’t make sense. So 30 40 is like a good score. So it gives you the keyword difficulty score and then like, Sorry for the dogs. Uh, yeah. So there’s some sound in the background. Yeah. So, all right. So, um, yeah, you can just, based on that, you can make your decisions, whether you wants to go after that queue or not.

And if you do then just gain that keyword in the SEO content template, and then yeah, yeah. Do your

Andrew: And that’s what you showed me. You created a video for your team for, is it who’s that? Well, we’ll get into who’s on your team in a moment. That’s what you said. You said, look, if we’re going to create this article, let’s be intentional about it. And then you said, all you have to do is plug in this. Uh, these keywords in notice how the other keywords pop up now start thinking of waste included.

And then I remember even said, this is a no brainer for us because we have this feature that people are asking for this, the keyword. And if you look at the competitors, they don’t have this feature that we have. We might as well include it and make sure that we let people know that’s the video that I saw that you made.

All right. For anyone out there who wants to try this, I’m going to give you a gift. I mean, really. A hundred percent free use of this right now. All you have to do is go to E M rush SEM, R U S H. They’re not even gonna take your credit card. They’re not going to, they’re not going to do anything.

They’re just going to say, tell us who you are. So we know if you’re a customer, we can’t give this to you. If you’re not a customer. You get instant access to all of this, try everything you just found out right now from Tylene see if it works for you. If you like it, then at that time, well, you can make the buying decision.

You could put your credit card, et cetera. If you don’t like it, you just move on. You cancel, but it’s super easy. It’s much. I think it’s easier to understand once you use it. And we just talked about search engine optimization, they also do other content related support. They also will help you with social media.

So if you’re saying, you know what, I’m not an SEO person. I just want to find a way to grow organically. They’ve got all the tools that you need to do that. And again, all you have to do is go to rush, M I X E R G E M rush. We’re doing this temporarily. They don’t even have a URL on their page because I just wanted to quickly test it.

Um, but at some point we’re going to get rid of that. We’re going to add a credit card. We’re going to add the whole thing, but for now we want to get started fast. And so anyone who’s listening, you get an advantage over people who are going to come in later. That’s rush right now. When did you get into this heavily in your personal?

I said, I didn’t even like to send out marketing email. I would just send it to my coworkers. That’s what got you on this path of saying I’m going to be a marketer for our business. I’m going to be the driving force behind sales.

Tavleen: Well, actually, yeah. So, uh, when I really, uh, you know, got started in this, um, I was just doing it because. Like I said, you know, I was there space, really trying to make an impact. And I really went in thinking that I’m going to make an impact, but since none of that was happening, it ended up being a really meaningless job.

So then I thought, okay, well something’s better. Nothing. I never came here to make an impact. I never came here with all those big ambitions. Let’s just, let’s just see what happens. Can all kind of, I think the attitude really was okay. And let’s just see what happens, you know? So it really never was that, um, I have some high expectations for myself and, uh, you know, I’m going to see, um, I’m going to take it to the next level.

Yeah. Those ambitions really one there. But yeah, I actually started hearing stories from our giants that we started working on my mind mindset. So when I really started. Talking to our customers while you were using our products. And then they started saying, Oh, you know, we’re really amazed at what is doing our business.

And, uh, you know, it’s really been a game changer and all of those good things. And I started getting on video calls with them. And when I saw that, Joy in their eyes. And I saw that confidence in their eyes. Uh, you know, and I, and I saw the fact that they were really hunting for solutions, uh, before finding us, um, that’s when I realized, okay, we’re actually doing something meaningful and you know, this, this is really helping people.

And that, yeah. That’s how my mind really started shifting. Then I started reading more about it. Uh, you know, yeah.

Andrew: Well, let’s go into, then the marketing techniques that you use, the first one was go into a marketplace that does the selling for you. The second one was go to marketplace that gives you software away for free, and then you got good at upselling. What’s next? What did you do after that? To grow?

Tavleen: After that doesn’t have anything on No. I mean, there is a, yes, we do have something on WordPress. You would just autonomy, which is a very recent addition that we have to our suit. It’s a marketing automation plugin. Uh, but otherwise, uh, when, when we started with the one pickup says, uh, and then with checkout and all of that, we never had anything on what breasts.

So, uh, it was. Then I think it was, it was mainly a SCO, like, uh, you know, the, the copy has to sell the page has to be SEO friendly. The blog should drive some traffic. The YouTube videos should, uh, should help people, uh, you know, should solve people’s problem. And they should, uh, kind of take them to our pages.

So I think then it was, it was pretty simple. So yeah, that’s what needs to be done.

Andrew: I’m surprised that you’re saying SEO became the next marketing channel for you. I would have thought that it would feel too intimidating, too competitive. There are people who are so black Hattie, there are people who are so focused on it, that this is what they blog about. This is what they tweet about.

This is what they go to bed sleeping about and wake up in the morning, coming up with ideas for why did you decide I’m waiting into that world instead of something else?

Tavleen: Uh, well, I, uh, cause there was no other way that w there was literally no

Andrew: What about buying ads? What about more free plugins or? I don’t know.

Tavleen: What buying ads? Uh, we did lose a lot of money on Google ads.

Andrew: You did try it. What happened there?

Tavleen: Well, I don’t know it was, it was just starting out to be really expensive and we were losing a lot of money on ads, but yeah, I would, I wouldn’t really excite off Google ads completely. I mean, it’s something that one can definitely try. It’s something that we also do on a, on a, um, on a one off basis. Not very regular with it, but yes, we do do it.

Um, so, um, Paid ads is definitely yes. It’s one, uh, one way to go about it. But I would also like to tell you that we tried paid ads with Facebook and that didn’t work for us, uh, at all because, uh, you know, so. Let’s say for sending makeup products, then, you know, you can target just about everyone in your country.

Who’s a woman, um, in an age bracket of, let’s say 18 to 35, whatever. But when it comes to like blue commerce store owners, really like helping because nobody really writes. On their Facebook page and I’m a WooCommerce store owner. Cause that’s just the technology that they’re using. It’s not helping. I actually had a lot of calls with Facebook as well.

You know, like I really got on calls and I said, you know, how do I identify that market? Like how do I pinpoint and stop losing money on it? And how do I really reach the right people? And I don’t think they had an institution as well. So I think, um, cause it’s a subset. So reaching out to them, uh, um, to the right people, that was really the hardest part to crack.

Uh, so that’s why a retargeting ads is what, what we do. Um, that’s the major thing that that’d be dope, but cold audience. I mean, that’s just a bad idea.

Andrew: What about then? So you tried that. Did you buy Google ads? Did those work for you?

Tavleen: Well, maybe to an extent, like in, in the beginning a little bit, but it was still more of organic. Uh, that, uh, uh, that, you know, uh, the page itself, it started ranking on the main keyword, which is WooCommerce bond, pickup cells. So, um, even, uh, uh, again, same goes for checkout. I mean, somewhere. So it still glucometers checkout is a very competitive keyword, but, but some form or the other of that keyword, maybe a long phrase keyword, uh, you know, that started ranking then WooCommerce one page checkout.

So we asked some from the articles over there, so it was more like, um, uh, The organic and a combination of organic and retargeting ads.

Andrew: What about YouTube? I’ve been watching you on YouTube. You do these good explanation videos. Some of them have a lot of use. Some of them have like hundreds. I think you have one that has 29,000 views that’s spot on for finale. Right. Um, and then I see some that don’t have a lot, has YouTube paid off for you as a marketing channel?

Tavleen: Oh, well, I would say that, uh, uh, you know, it’s not the primary breadwinner for sure. Um, And less views actually isn’t discouraging because that just means the software is so good that people are able to figure things out themselves. So the idea really is to supplement, uh, you know, what, uh, there, uh, uh, supplement the software, uh, with, with a tutorial video so that they are able to understand how to, uh, reuse it.

Uh, I would say that, uh, You know, uh, YouTube algorithm, uh, is sort of behaves in a way that it rewards consistency. So if you can like really put out content, uh, you know, twice or twice a week, and, uh, you also need to, uh, again, uh, you know, just doesn’t have to be around your products. It also has to be like broader.

In the broader sense. So I think, yeah, if, if, uh, you know, if you can go that drought, it’s definitely a good way to go about it. I think YouTube has definitely helped us, uh, become more discoverable. And, uh, it has also helped, uh, people who are using our products, uh, uh, kind of raise less support tickets because they’re able to watch the video and figure out how to do it by themselves.

And then they do not have to kind of reach out to the support to ask specific questions. So, yeah, that’s how we see it.

Andrew: Let’s close it out then with India, I’m noticing more and more of the entrepreneurs I’m pursuing of the entrepreneurs I’m chatting with on Twitter. They’re creating SAS companies like yours from India. I don’t want to say that there’s a revolution because this is what I’m recognizing, but. Boy, I’m noticing so many more, so many more SAS companies coming from India, standalone companies not backing up somebody else’s business as their back office, not aspiring to do something small, but really doing the bootstrap thing that people in the SAS world are, are admiring and pursuing.

And it’s coming more and more from India. And I recognize it only because when it’s time for me to schedule it an interview, I have to be aware of the time zone what’s going on.

Tavleen: That’s interesting. So, um, I would definitely agree that, uh, in India, uh, you know, the whole startup scene is, is definitely on the rise and, um, Uh, I think I’ve just become more enterprising, you know, like I was just telling you that, uh, it’s also the media, which is glorifying the stops and you know, how the kind of investment they are raising.

And, uh, there’s a lot of interest from investors as well. Uh, in, in the Indian ecosystem, the startup ecosystem, I think we’re just leading a lot of people to, uh, kind of experiment and, uh, Uh, come out with that idea of theirs and, uh, build a product around it and start to market it. And also we kind of, you know, we’re, we’re a country with large population, so, um, that also kind of, uh, you know, plays a role.

So yeah, I mean, if you’re talking about not there, uh, but if you’re talking about, uh, you know, direct to consumer brands, then definitely over there, uh, you know, we, we do have some sites that are doing extremely well, just because of the mass that’s available here to sell to.

Andrew: What you, I guess all I’m seeing is the SAS companies, software companies that are coming on strong. What, um, often the numbers that they tell me, private, or just shocking for bootstrap, sometimes one person operation. Yeah. With the, you know, like, no co-founder unlike you and your husband, just one person and then get support wherever they needed.

I’m looking at this one guy right now that in pursuing on Twitter and we’re just trying to make the hours where, um, Largely because I’m still working from home and I’m up until a few days ago, we’ve just been homeschooling. uh, you know what, let me take them, tell you what I see, how we solve the homeschooling.

We did a micro school, you know, where we found three other kids who are my kids’ age. And, and instead of my kid doing zoom home with his teacher by himself here with me watching and giving feedback and helping and. We just hired a teacher, like a real teacher who was working at the San Francisco school system at one of the charter schools.

We hired her, she’s working with some in someone’s backyard and all I have to do is drop my son off. And he’s there with a small group of kids when they’re done doing their zoom. She’s there to help when they’re done with her help and zoom. Uh, they’re going into the, into the park, which is not too far away from the house and just walking over and play.

It’s just, I think it’s going to be game changer. I’m finally going to have time again.

Tavleen: Yes, that’s that’s really good. So it’s starting to. That’s not an age

Andrew: To know, what are you guys doing? Are you, are you able to take your child out?

Tavleen: Uh, no. So we, uh, we live with, uh, I mean, well, really we live in a joint setup, so, uh, you know, uh, my parents, uh, I mean, my husband’s parents also live with us, so I know they help us really take care of the, of the baby. And even right now, like now I’m here. So they’re taking care of yes, that’s how it works, but I’m definitely not able to take him out anywhere, um, because of, uh, We’re not in lock down for sure.

But, uh, um, I think there is, there is a lot of fear around this whole thing and also in India, the cases are rising. So, um, uh, you know, I think there’s this general anxiety around the solar Corona. So I think that’s why it’s just wise to maybe wait for a few more months and see how it goes though. I’m not sure if it’s going to improve unless a vaccination comes in, which I don’t know how it’s going to come.

And then the implementation model that, so, yeah,

Andrew: Now we’re just trying to think longterm, like what’s, what’s the long haul solution. Thankfully, the benefit of being in San Francisco and in California in general is. They’re all these beaches. I don’t know. I never noticed it before. I got to California to San Francisco. There’s a huge coast here. It’s not the most beautiful coast ever, but at least the coast.

And if you just go out somewhere where there’s nobody there, you’ve got your own little space except Tivoli. Now we got fricking fires. So now you can’t even go into the. You can’t even go outside your house. They’re fires. I at least during lockdown, since I can’t travel as much as I could before I would go into the backyard, I’d set up my tent.

I set up a little fire. I’d read on my Kindle. I have my own space. Now I can’t do that because the fires from a little North of us, a little South of us are just so terrible,

Tavleen: Oh, no. Wow. That’s. Gilbert woman. That’s why I wanted to said electric cars.

Andrew: I know, at least though we solve the kid issue. Alright. So you were starting to give me a sense of what’s going on. And one of the things that you said in India is there is this structure that I feel San Francisco had in the U S had, after that in general of here are the people who are making it, let’s learn them.

Let’s. Let’s respect. And in some ways let’s, I think idolize and worship them. I think maybe that’s too much, but I that’s the way I grew up, right. With the sense of hero, worship form, I feel like there are, people are going to be listening to you and go, this is what I aspire to. She’s opening me up to a set of ideas and a set of possibilities that I wasn’t available that I didn’t know were available to me before.

What are some of these sites that I can go take a look at to see where India is talking about Indian entrepreneurship and starting to evangelize it?

Tavleen: there was a cycle. Your story.

Andrew: Your story. Is it your

Tavleen: Yeah. So I

Andrew: What else

Tavleen: Uh, there was one really popular site. I’m really forgetting its name, um, in shorts. Oh, I’m not sure.

Andrew: are you on indie hacker. The community? No, you’re not there. Is there a community you’re into? I feel like you’re a good marketer. You’re good at telling your story. Is there, is there, is there a community that you’re a part of? Are you in a Facebook group for you yourself when you want to get help? When you want to get feedback, is there some place that you go,

Tavleen: Oh, but none of them actually come from India. So, uh, I, uh, like I really follow copy hackers. I follow the blog.

Andrew: Oh yeah, she’s good.

Tavleen: Yeah, she’s really good. Uh, Amy boarder, uh, you know, uh, I learned a lot from her. I listened to her podcast as well. Uh, then Bushra has, or you’ve had her on the show as well, so yeah, I really follow a lot of what she does.

So, um, yeah, those are the people that I’m following a non from India, really? Uh, material.

Andrew: Alright. All right. Congratulations on your success. I think one of the most striking parts of your site is just how beautiful it is and how well it works. I’m going to recommend anyone who wants to go check out the site to go check out your business, to go check out, build Wu funnels. Dot com. And of course I want to thank the two sponsors who made this interview happen.

The first, if you need a hosted solution for WordPress, for WooCommerce, you want to get started, go to And the second you’ve seen how much you can build your audience, build your business. If you get traffic coming over to your site and it can be much easier than you imagined. If you go to Rush Rush will redirect you and give you that whole code. Alright. I believe thanks so much for being on here.

Tavleen: Sure I thoroughly enjoyed being here and thank you so much for listening to me. I was like, you know, we’re still on that journey. So it’s just good to be recognized at, at this point in time, it’s just beautiful. It’s a

Andrew: If only we could have, if only would have allowed me to yeah. Your numbers. I think we would have blown people away, but I think the story was strong. Thank you. Thank you. I’ll

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