Andrew:	You're about to learn how to create your first information product. The course is led by Greg Rollett of The Product Pros. They create info products for people like you. They've marketed and sold over $1 billion in products and services for others and for themselves. I'll help facilitate. My name is Andrew Warner. I'm the founder of mixergy.com. Greg, where were you before you learned how to create the kind of products you're about to teach people?

Greg:	Definitely, definitely. Well, I come from a musician background. I was actually a rapper in a rock band. We were kind of like 3-11 or Linkin Park or Gym Class Heroes. That is us on the left. That was actually at Earth Day Birthday, which was a really big concert here in Orlando. We opened up for Sevendust and Papa Roach and Buck Cherry and some really cool bands and we were doing some really cool things. 

We were touring. I played Madison Square Garden in New York City. I played the Knitting Factory in LA. We were touring up and down the East Coast and I'd just booked a 15-city tour and we were going to be opening up for this band called, "The Crazy Anglos" who were in our kind of niche market and they were selling out 300-400 person venues all up and down the East Coast and to show our appreciation to them, we actually booked the whole tour. It was the first real big tour. 

We had merch. We had t-shirts. We had hats. We had our CD's, buttons, stickers, everything ready to go and put all our contacts on-line, all of my money on the line. I had just gotten married and this is like the last thing my wife wanted me to do is leave for 20 days to go play dive bars and go rap around the country. It's the day before we're supposed to leave. I had just bought the trailer, just got new tires on it. 
Things couldn't have been better and I get a call from the guitar player and he says, "Hey, me and the bassist aren't coming." I was just like, "Oh, all right, well what do you mean you're not coming? You're going to miss a show or two?" And they're just like, "No. We're out. We're not in this." This is the equivalent in our group, you know, I was the rapper but the guitar player, guitars led the whole band and he was also the singer, kind of like Linkin Park without Chester belting his choruses. 

So that was it, like, total devastation and like, game over. Just didn't know what to do. Really felt like a divorce hit me. I had dropped out of school to do this. Like I said, I had just gotten married and now I don't know what to do with myself. I don't have a job. My full-time job was finding gigs. My wife's parents got this flyer in the mail and they were like, "Why don't you come to this all-day Internet marketing seminar?" I was like a 22, 23 year old kid and I don't remember how old I was, but that was the last thing that you want to do on a Saturday is wake up at 6:00 a.m., drive an hour and a half over to Daytona and sit in a hotel room for like 8, 9 hours and get like hotel lunch. It was the last thing I wanted to do. 

Long story short, I ended up spending my entire life savings that day on Internet marketing products, on like e-commerce stores and random things that I'm sure we'll talk about later as we go on. I ended up spending like $6,000 that day on just all kinds of stuff and then it really did change my life and it led into everything that we're going to talk about today. It really was from that place of, "I have nothing left to do," and it was just a door that opened and I ran into it.

Andrew:	Do we have this? I think we do. This is your first product?

Greg:	Yes, yes. This is actually the first product that we created. So what we did is, after I went to this Internet marketing conference and I started learning stuff, I started putting up all these random sites. I was selling bird feeders. I had a site called backyardhammocks.com. I was selling softball bats, all this stuff, and when you're selling other people's goods and services, the margins don't scale as well. 

Once you're in the music industry, you always get pulled back. Just like an athlete, someone says, "Hey, you want to go play a pick-up game of basketball?" and you played basketball in high school, you jump at the opportunity. So I always wanted to get back into the music industry and so my way was, "Why don't I teach these musicians some Internet marketing skills?" So we started off starting a consultancy where we would coach and be marketers for bands but, as a musician, what indie musician's going to pay you $500, $1,000, $2,000 a month as a retainer? They're lucky if they've got $50 to go pay their bar tab at the end of the night. So it just wasn't a good idea. 

So I got into this information product world and I was like, "Well, why don't I create a course for these musicians that instead of paying me $500, they could pay me like $30, $40, $50 and I can teach a whole lot more of them?" So that's what we did and this is the new music economy and we built a site called genyrockstars.com. It was for the next generation of rock stars who are using the Internet to grow and build their indie band and about a year went by and we built up a mailing list of about 3,000 musicians. We were doing all kinds of free PDFs and blogging and all kinds of cool stuff and when this product came out, I was like, "Let's do a webinar. Webinars are just a cool way to sell things. It's kind of like the live event environment." As a former rapper in a rock band, I'm like, "I'm the front man. Let's just get out in front of the crowd and sell this thing." 

So we do this webinar. I got something like 150 musicians signed up for the webinar. It was 7:00 at night, I really vividly remember the night. So we're selling this product. I'm going to sell it for $47 but as a webinar special, I'm doing it for $37. It's about a 45-minute webinar. About 30 minutes in, I start making the pitch. I gave them some really cool content and now I'm like, "All right. It's $47. Here's the deal with it," and I get to the pitch and I tell them how much and no sales. 

And I've got two monitors going, so I've got one monitor I'm doing the live webinar and on the other screen I've got my gmail open and my PayPal account open so you can see the money and the sales coming in. So I'm giving the live webinar and I'm looking at (?) at the same time and time kept going on and no sales, no sales, nothing and now I'm like pleading with these guys to invest into the program and I see the first sale come in. 

I see it come in and I'm like, "Holy crap! I got a sale!" and I got up and I sprinted into, I'm living in a town home, and I'm upstairs and I sprinted to where my wife was doing laundry and in the other room and I was like, "Baby, baby, baby, we made a sale! We made a sale!" Mind you, I'm leading a live webinar right now and I just ran into the other room, so I come back, I saw five or six more sales. I ran back, told my wife, leaving the live webinar, so I have a couple more sales and we ended up selling enough products that night that it basically paid for three months salary at the job I was at.

Since that day, things have really never been the same. We've been creating and selling information products ever since and it really, truly is the greatest job in the entire world because you're helping people get what they want and in return they're paying you for that and you get to do what you want to do every day of the week. It was a good time, man.

Andrew:	That's inspiring and that's just the beginning. You guys have just grown and grown and grown and you're going to teach the audience how they could do it too. We have the big tactics up here on the board. These are the tactics that we're going to go through as we teach people how they can do it themselves. Why don't we start off with the first one, "which is know your audience and their magic bullet".

Greg:	Yeah, definitely, so the first thing when people create their product is you really need to know who you're selling it to and I know that everyone says that whenever you're doing anything, whether you're building a niche marketing site or you're building a product, you need to know your people because you need to know deep down what their needs are. So when we created this first music product, I had the perception from being in the music industry that every musician wanted a record deal, they all wanted to be on MTV, they all wanted to get a licensing deal to be on One Tree Hill or Smallville or whatever and get paid for the licensing fees. 

I couldn't have been further from what they actually wanted. They don't want the record deal. They don't want to be on MTV. I mean, some of them sure do but really what they wanted is, we had one musician, a DJ from Nashville who wrote in to me after I put up the sales letter and stuff and he's like, "Greg, I'm a DJ from Nashville. I just got laid off from Sears. I make $7 an hour. I want to be able to play a show on a Friday night that pays me $100 so I can buy food for the week." That's what he wanted. He didn't care at all about MTV or record deals or getting signed by Def Jam or whatever it is. He cared about, "How do I pay my bills?". So that completely changed how we created our products.

Andrew:	So you've got questions that people can ask to help them figure out what their market is, right?

Greg:	Yeah, definitely. So let's jump right into these questions. The first thing that I always do when looking at your market is answer the question, "What do they look like?" Start to profile them and a quick exercise I do to do this is I ask people who their favorite TV character is and for me it's Homer Simpson. So I ask them to name four or five characters, they say their favorite TV character. So Homer, he works at the power plant. His boss is Mr. Burns. He likes Duff beer. He hangs out with Barney. He goes to Apu at the Quickie Mart. He's got three kids. I can rattle off all this stuff about Homer Simpson all day long. 

You probably could about your favorite TV character, movie star, whatever it is and then I ask you, "Well, what does your customer look like?" Then they're just like, "I don't know. He's someone that buys my product." I'm like, "No. That's not who it is." In the music world, for us, it was a college kid. He wears a backwards hat. He's got on khaki shorts. He's wearing a t-shirt with a stupid slogan on it. He just got out of school. He's got big debt. He's playing dive bars. He's hoping he can pay rent at the end of the month. I mean, I can tell you to a tee who it was. I could walk around the mall and I could be like, "That guy would buy my product. That guy would buy my product," and that's what you really need to do. So what do they look like? What do they dress like? What are their characteristics? That's the first thing.

Andrew:	How do you know that? How do you know the answers to those questions? How do you know what they look like? How do you know what they love? How do you know how they want to dress? And when you do that, don't you limit yourself?

Greg:	But you still have to have that vision of who that person is because I want to talk to an individual one on one. I want to be able to be, like, "John, here is exactly your problem and here is how I can help it." Especially when you are first getting started. And so how we found this information out, one, we were lucky. We had a 3,000-person mailing list and we sent out surveys. The second thing you can do, which is really cool about social media now, is if you have like a Facebook fan page or something and you have 100 fans, I mean sit there and just click on each of those 100 fans and see where they live. See how old they are. See what some of their interests are. I mean that's one of the coolest things about social media right now, is you can find out all this information. People have done all the work for you. 

So build a little tribe, see who these people are. I mean go to networking events. I mean obviously from the music industry, I can go to a show and see who the bands are that I want to connect with. But if you are in the marketing industry and you are selling to insurance agents, go to an insurance association conference. Go to a local meet-up. See who these people are. Go out and meet people. It's a people business.

Andrew:	I remember hearing Frank Kern say this, that you need to even know what gender they are, and I was thinking, boy, if I do that, maybe 30 percent of my audience are women, that means that I'll basically be cutting off 30 percent of my audience because I want to target in on the men because that's where the richest portion of my audience is? Is that what you're suggesting too?

Greg:	Not entirely. So back to our ... I kind of gave you the profile of our ideal musician, right? A guy wearing a cheesy T-shirt with khaki shorts, backwards hat. But his problems, like the DJ from Nashville who does electronic music, he can still relate to what John does. I just had, I really had to profile John because I needed to know the next couple of questions. So what keeps John up at night? It's rent. It's putting food on the table. It's "Dear God, I hope I don't have to go back to McDonald's on Monday because making seven bucks an hour flipping burgers is the worst." 

So, what keeps these people up at night? And when you profile them, it's really easy to start thinking what their problems are. Those problems are going to be the same problems that other people in your market or in your niche have. So what are they mad about? What are their frustrations? And then kind of that closet question, what do they secretly desire?

So, I said that on the surface, a lot of them didn't want the record deal. But in hindsight, they were, like, "Man, if I had a magic bullet or if I could just get my music here, everything could change for me. If I just met that one person, that A&R, whoever it is." So they do have secret desires for that, but you have to do it in a way that makes sense to them because on the forefront, they are, like, "Man, I just need something to pay my bills at the end of the week."

Andrew:	How do I find out what my audience's secret desire is? In fact, what happened to your shot here? Oh, did you just change your camera somehow?

Greg:	I hope not.

Andrew:	Let's see. I'll adjust it while you answer that question. How do I know what their secret desires are?

Greg:	So we ask, right? So we do a lot of surveys. We look at a lot of blog questions. We test a lot. So we'll send an e-mail out to our list and we'll say, "Here is how Joe Smith got signed to a record deal." And we'll see the open rates and if there is, sometimes, we have 3,000 people on the list. If a thousand people opened it, that would be really cool. It means that a thousand people were kind of interested in getting a record deal. But if only, like, 100 people opened it, then, like, well, I guess "record deal" isn't the magic bullet keyword, right?

With some, we'd send out a post like "Five Tips to Play a Gig by Friday that's Going to Pay your Bar Tab," and that would get like 2,000 opens and you'd be like, "All right, that struck a nerve with these people." And so those are some real big things we did. And like I said, we built that list and that was one of the first important things that we did, is we built an audience. We cultivated it. And we just started asking them stuff and we started putting stuff out there. We created a lot of content. They really got us the answers. So this isn't like an overnight solution. It was something that did take time for us to put together.

Andrew:	That makes sense. I remember even after a past course on Facebook marketing, I tossed up, as I was taught to do, questions on my Facebook fan page, questions like "Bootstrap or Funded?" or I guess even that is a great one. And I could see what people responded. Are they more likely to say bootstrap or are they more likely to say funded? And the people who were ... 

Greg:	Right.

Andrew:	That gives me a sense of who the audience is. So that's what we're trying to do. We are trying to figure out who they are and what their secret desires are. And I like that you are showing me different ways to do that because a secret is not easy to get.

Greg:	I love it. I love it. Actually, if you head on to the next slide, I have some really cool resources that we use, and we are doing a research for our products. And one that's really overlooked is Amazon.com. I mean this is the largest retailer on the planet right now. And the cool thing about Amazon is people leave reviews. So if you're in the water polo niche and you are teaching people how to play water polo, go to Amazon.com, look at all the books, look at all the DVDS, look at all the products in the water polo niche, and look at the reviews. And your goal is not to go to the five-star reviews. Your goal is to go to the one and two-star reviews because they are going to be, like, "Joe Smith's book was terrible because XYZ." Well, XYZ are the pain points. XYZ is what they really want to know. XYZ are the things that you can put into your product to make your product better than Joe Smith's, who these people are saying is terrible. So obviously, look at the five-star reviews and four and see what they liked, but look at the one and two because they are going to tell you exactly what they didn't like, and when they are doing that, they are telling you what they want. So that's a great place to start, is on Amazon.com, and other review sites. If you have review sites in your niche, that's a great, great place to start.

I'm a huge fan of alltop.com. This is probably my favorite research site on the planet. It's a Guy Kawasaki site and essentially, if you haven't heard of it, it's all the top websites and they're all broken down by category. So what you could do is if you're in the water polo niche, go to alltop.com, look up "water polo," and it's going to pull up all the top water polo sites. And it's going to be all the blogs, all the news sites, all the commenters, the podcasters, everything to do with that.

And just start opening them, opening them all. See what they are talking about. See what people are leaving comments on. Follow these people on Facebook, Twitter. You're going to find out who all the influential people are. See what they are selling. See what they are talking about. See what their commenters are doing. See who is retweeting their stuff and what stuff that they are retweeting. But it's a great way to find the influential people in that niche.

Andrew:	I see.

Greg:	All right. So really cool there. Next, join all the mailing lists. Join all the newsletters. I know everybody hates getting more stuff in their inbox. But every time you are subscribing to these mailing lists, do it with a purpose. See which subject lines get your attention. See how they are talking to their audience. What's their tone like? What products are they pitching? How are they presenting it? Is it just an HTML newsletter with all kinds of graphics and stuff, or is it just plain text? See how they present themselves or do they position themselves as like a guru, if they have a pen name. Look at all that stuff because that's going to tell you a lot about how their market responds to that stuff, all right? 

And then if you are in the offline world, which a lot of people are and I've explored a lot in the last year, is doing direct mail, there is the SRDS. You can do it online or you can go to the library and get a huge catalog from the SRDS, and it's going to show you all the people that have subscribed to direct mail, to catalogs, to magazines. And this is where you can really segment and find buyers because you can say, in the music niche, we went and said Sam Ash is a musician super store. They sell guitars and drums and all that kind of stuff. 

We can go to the SRDS and we can find out how many people get the Sam Ash catalog and have bought a guitar in the last six months. So those are people that have gotten a catalog and have looked through it and bought something through that catalog. And then you can send some direct mail pieces to them, send surveys to them, do all kinds of cool stuff because those are the buyers in that marketplace.

So those are four really cool resources that are going to help you paint that picture of who your ideal audience is.

Andrew:	All right. I see what you mean. All right. Let's go on then to the next big point, which is create a framework. And boy, actually, you have better slides. I usually use the big board. But I like what you've got here. You actually have a nice looking slide for each of these big points. What do you mean by "create your framework?"

Greg:	All right. So when most people go to create a product, they are just, like, "I know stuff. Let me just throw this stuff together and I'm going to slap it together, call it a product, and charge people some money for it ,and hope that people like it." So once you figure out who this ideal person is, you know that they are struggling in business or they are struggling in their personal relationship or they can't find a date or whatever it is, figure out where they are and where they want to go, and then your only job as someone who creates products is to take them from that place where they are to where they want to go. And you want to do it logically. So what is the first step that someone needs to take? What is the second step? After I accomplish this, what do I do next?

And that's really what the framework is. It's how you deliver that information. Because there are a lot of people who just throw out a product, like, "Here are my top 20 blog posts that I ever did and I'm slapping it together and calling it a product." That's cool if you have a loyal audience who loves your blog posts. But did that series, did that product give your person a result that they wanted?

So, if you want to lose 20 pounds in 30 days because you're going on a cruise, I want to know step by step what I need to do every single day to lose that weight. And if you just say, "Well, do these kinds of workouts and this nutrition stuff and then go see this guy and get these supplements," and there is no order to anything, there is just madness, and the person is just going to be, like, "I don't know what to do with any of these stuff." 

So, the framework helps you say, "Step 1, go to your fridge. Take out all your soda and your cookies. Throw them in the trash. Step 2, walk outside and walk around the block three times. Step 3, next time you're in public, get these supplements. Step 4 .... And each step along the way, you are losing one pound, two pounds, three pounds. And at the end of 30 days, if you follow this framework, you would have lost the weight and you're happy." And that's what you want as a product creator, is someone who is happy for going through your product, right?

Andrew:	Step by step, specific tactics to go from where they are now to where they want to be, to where you are promising them that they'll be.

Greg:	Exactly.

Andrew:	OK. How do you that, by the way? How do you know what those steps are?

Greg:	Well, hopefully, you're some kind of an expert in what you are teaching, right? So I've given this water polo example because it was the first crazy thing that came to my head. I know nothing about water polo so I should not create a product about water polo. So I teach. I started in the music industry and I taught people how to go from where they are now struggling as a musician to getting a gig on Friday night where they can make 500 bucks, right? So the first logical step is they had to start doing some research on what venues to play, right? The second step is they had to go out and contact the venues so we gave them exact scripts that they need to do. Step three is the promotion and marketing. Setting up e-mail lists and all the marketing stuff. Step four is at the gig they had to capitalize on certain things and then have merchants and so on and so forth.

Andrew:	I see.

Greg:	At the end if they did all of those steps, I mean, I knew that because I'd been playing shows, I knew the gigs, I knew the experience. So you have to have chops. You've got to know your stuff in order to do that. And sometimes it does take some thinking, so, on the next slide there's a chart that everyone going through this, and every time I do live stuff this is something that I want you guys to draw. And it's a framework chart. And essentially what we do is we love breaking things up into nice easy to use pieces, right. 

So, what you have on the left side is you have an A. Right. And that's where your prospect is right now. That's where they're struggling at, what losses they have, the whatever they want to do in their life that they don't have. Something's missing and that's where they are at A. All the way on the right side you have B, and that's the promised land, right? Then what 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are those five steps. So how we break it down is Step 1, the absolute first thing that you need to do, right. So in that weight loss example, the absolute first thing to do is walk to your fridge throw out all the crap right. You know that nutrition's the number one thing to losing weight. So that is step 1. 

Now, here's something that we do in the marketing of the product is we give step one away for free. Right. Frank Curran calls it results in advance. You can call it moving the free line, you can call it whatever you want. But you really want someone to get some cool stuff from you, to build trust in you, that you know what you're talking about, that you're going to give results. So Step 1 the absolute first thing you need to do, give it away for free. Give me your name and e-mail address and I'll give you the absolute first thing you need to do to lose one pound. When you wake up tomorrow the scale's going to be one pound lighter, right? So that's number one.

Number 2, 3, 4 and 5, are just the next logical steps. I love things in steps of four, right. So you see some courses that are out there they're like the 12 modules, right. And it's over 12 weeks. Well I don't know what I'm doing 90 days from now. Andrew I'm sure you have no idea what you're doing 90 days from now. I cannot see myself watching a video once a week for 12 weeks. It's too long, right. I love fours. I can, four things that I can remember. If I teach you four individual things you'd probably remember those four things. Four is also four weeks. I can see myself going through something in a month's time. So that's how we break down a framework. 

So what I want everyone that's going through this program right now to do. Write down their A, write down their B, and then think of the absolute first thing to do. And keep breaking it down if you have to. You know, I had a realtor we were teaching. He was teaching other realtors how to get more sales of houses. And I was like, alright right now they're struggling, they don't have enough sales of home. And B is they want to be a top earning real estate agent. So what's the absolute first thing they need to do? And he was like, well they need to get more listings. So I was like, well alright, we'll what's the first thing they need to do in order to get more listings. And he was like, well you need to, you know, set 15 appointments. And I was like, alright well what's the first thing you need to do in order to set 15 appointments. He's like, you have to go out and network. Alright, so what's the first thing you need to do to network. You know, and we really broke it down. And he had the absolute first thing, day one if this guy does this he's going to get a couple more listings. And guess what you're the hero now because you just got more listings, if you get more listings there's a chance that someone's going to buy a house and you're going to make a sale.

So think about that. Put the rest of the steps together and that's really how you create your frame work.

Andrew:	All right, let's take a look then at the next big idea which is to record using these tools. And by the way, I'm looking forward to finding out about the tools because I don't know if you noticed but there's something weird going on here which is why your camera is adjusting on my side a little bit differently. But I'll just keep moving your camera as I need to.

Greg:	Sorry about that man, that's always super fun.

Andrew:	There it is. It's a Skype issue. I don't know what it is with Skype some days. Alright, so let's go on to the next one which is record using these tools. What are the tools that we need to use to record?

Greg:	All right, so before we dig into the tools, the big concept that I want people to know is the most important part of your recording is the ability for the person who's going through it to understand what you're saying and then use the information, right? You can go out and get a Canon5D which is like your 3,000 top of the line camera, right. And you don't have a microphone and you can't hear what I'm saying. Then it does you absolutely no good, right. So the most important concept to remember is that people need to see, consume and understand your information. You need to give it in a way to where they can then use the information. 

So, that's the first thing to always think about. So when you're doing that audio is key. Audio is beyond crucial. And I really recommend that if people are getting started record an audio product before you do a video product. It's easier, there's so many more opportunities for people to listen to audio. It can be listened to more passively. I mean, I love the video courses, don't get me wrong. I buy every course out there. But I don't have 60 minutes in my day to watch a 60-90 minute video. And there's ten of them, I just don't have the time to do that. 

But if there is an audio version of it, I can listen to 30 minutes on my way to the office, 30 minutes on my way home, 30 minutes at the gym, if you are on the subway, people taking trains, planes, automobiles, whatever it is. So really think about that. And the audio quality has to be stellar. Spend more money on your microphone than you do on your camera. Because if they can't understand you and hear the words coming out of your mouth, the rest is useless.

So with technology for me, it's a love and hate situation. Just like what's going on now with Skype, you could do everything in your power to make sure that the recording is going good, that the audio is going good, and things just happen. Files don't get compressed correctly. When you're going from like an online format, like a .mov or a Flash file and you are trying to put it on a DVD, it doesn't burn correctly or the frame rates are all different, and these are all things that even me, I'm creating like hundreds of products, I still don't know that crap and it's still makes you go crazy.

So with tools, it's about comfort and ease of use. So what are you comfortable using? So some of our favorite product creation tools, honestly, are either free or virtually just super inexpensive. So the first program that we use is called Audacity and it's a free audio recording software for PC and Mac. You just download it to your computer. And if you have a microphone, you plug it into your computer and Audacity has this big red Record button. You hit it and you talk into your computer. 

Or if you talk into your microphone, you're, like, "Hey, what's going on? This is Greg Rollett and welcome to Module 1 in The ProductPro system. In this module, I'm going to be talking ..." and you just go right into your spiel. You hit Stop. It's got built-in effects, like compression and EQ that you don't even need to use if you have a good microphone, but it has all that built in. You hit Export and boom, you have a .wav file that you can then put on a CD. You can convert it to an mp3, do whatever you want to.

Andrew:	That's the first tool I use at Mixergy. It's so helpful and it's free and it allows you to, even if you screw up or if there are random sounds, you can just quickly edit them out. I love Audacity. 

Greg:	Love it. Love it. It's honestly the best way to go. So second tool, if you're doing video, I love iMovie, and if you are on a PC, Windows Movie Maker. And these are free tools. And I can't spell Windows, obviously. These are... 

Andrew:	Hey, by the way, how do you feel about having mistakes in a program? Here we are, the audience creates a product, they sell it, and then as they roll it out, they realize, "Ooh, I misspelled 'Window'."

Greg:	I do that all the time, just honestly, like I do it all the time. We actually had a product that was on AppSumo yesterday and the first video that they got on the sales, we had, like, 20 e-mails on. It was, like, "Greg, you misspelled this word." And I was, like, "Oh, crap." But at the end of the day, for me, that's a good chance for me to just now have a conversation with that person who said we have them. Like, "Hey man, sorry about that. We'll work towards getting it fixed. How else did you enjoy the program? Is there anything else we can do for you? Did you see Video 2 where we talked about this and that?" 

For me, it's a chance to have a conversation with someone, have a good laugh, have a beer with it with my partner on the weekend. So I don't spend a whole lot of time on the mistakes. Obviously, get someone to edit your stuff. Review it if you need to. But again, for me, I mean you guys know what I'm saying when I say Windows Movie Maker, right? It's not like you're just, like, "Ah. This program is crap. Greg can't spell Windows. It's not a good tool." So again, it's about the information and how you use the information, so... 

Andrew:	I used to go and study how salespeople sell and I watch these women who are selling Mary Kay. And one of the tactics that they had was to wear the Mary Kay pin upside down. And I said, "Why upside down? Aren't you trying to sell beauty? Aren't you trying to get people to feel like you know what you're doing when it comes to looks?" and they said, "Yes. So when a woman who cares about beauty and design walks up to us and sees that the button is upside down, she'll tell us and we'll correct it and thank her, and we'll know she is one of us and it starts the conversation that often leads to sale with them." And I could see how it would with you too.

Greg:	Yes. So I love that. It's a conversation starter.

Andrew:	Right. I don't want to move, I don't want to go too slow here. I know you want to power through all these different ideas because you have so many tactics.

Greg:	No, it's all good.

Andrew:	What's the next one?

Greg:	iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, both free video editing software. Something that we do a lot is we record audio in Audacity or the next one using freeconferencecall.com if you are interviewing someone or having a special guest or something. And then what we'll do is we'll create PowerPoint or Keynote slides. And we'll use iMovie and Windows Movie Maker to then put the slides on top of the audio to create like a slideshow kind of a video, and that's for people that don't want to use some of the screen casting software, so that's just a cool little tip.

The next one we use is freeconferencecall.com. This thing is free and all you have to do is get on your phone. They give you like a 1-800 number and a PIN. You call it. You hit the Record button and you're recording a phone conversation. The cool thing is it could just be your phone conversation. So this is something I tell people on the way home, you're leaving the office and you got 30 minutes, knock out a 20-minute module. Call the number, punch in the things when you're sitting in the parking lot and then pull out and it hit's record, and you go, Hey, this is Greg and welcome to module one the product (?) system and this module and you're recording as you're driving home. 

And by the time you get home you hit stop, you're done with the module free conference call sends you an email and says here's where you can download the call you just did. You can use Audacity to edit it, it's such an effective way to record audio. It can also do teleconferences so if you want to interview someone or you want to have a special guest or you have a partner, things like that it's great for that as well. (?) It's a really, really cool way to record audio. 

Now a lot of these audio programs, they might give you a .wav file, or an .mp4, or all kinds of things. You need to get it into an mp3 or you need to get it into a .wav to put it onto a CD, switch is a free audio converter that does all of that cool stuff for you. Same thing with video, if you're trying to get mobile ready videos and things like that. 

Handbrake is another free alternative to get your videos in whatever format that you need it. So there are two more really good tools you can use. Everything I just told you about on this first slide is free. And you can create a full, nice looking great product with all these tools and not spend a dime. Get on your phone, record for five days for 30 minutes, now you have a 2 and a half hour product and you're good to go. Those are some really quick cool free cheap ways to record the product.

Andrew:	And you've got some others that are not free. 

Greg:	Yes, I have some others that are not free. On the next slide more cool product creation tools, the first two are cameras. The first product I ever created the New Music Economy showed you I about. I actually recorded it on a flip camera, in my bedroom. And I went to Home Depot and I bought, they had these huge, giant white board things that their like 15 feet long and like 6 feet tall. I had them cut them into a bunch of slices, they were really thing, and I got some nails and I nailed them on to my wall. 

And I had the flip camera and I set it up on a chair and then I put a book on top of the chair to make it high enough. I didn't even have a camera stand, and I hit record on the flip camera and I recorded 4, 30 minute videos, and that was the first product I ever created, and it's still selling to this day. So again, don't think it's about the tools, it's about the message that you deliver with those tools. 

With that said, the flip camera has evolved. I do recommend that if you're going to use a camera like that, go for the Kodak play touch, or if you can find the old version of that which is the Kodak ZI8, they're really cool, they shoot in HD and the cool thing is they have an audio input, and if you go to Amazon.com and look for the AudioTechnica Lavalier mic, they have a $20.00 microphone that plugs into it that gives you great sound that you can clip on to your t-shirt or whatever it is to give you a microphone on one of those cameras. 

If you are looking to do professional video, the video now that we shoot for our own stuff is shot with a Canon 7D, or a Canon 5D. These range in price anywhere from $2000 to $4000. They are what we shoot all of our TV shows with, that we get aired on ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX. So they're professional grade cameras and we use lavalier microphones with that. The lavalier microphones are wireless that we use, and they're anywhere between $300 and $400 per microphone it just depends on where you get it online.  So that's kind of the high level. So Kodak Playtouch, low level, Canon 7D, 5D professional level. Next, obviously Camtasia screen flow, to record your screens, similar to Andrew, what you're doing now. Someone just had a PowerPoint presentation and they wanted to record their voice on it. Camtasia screen flow is great for that.

Also, if you're showing people how to do internet marketing tactics or how to use pieces of software, screen recording software is great. Those programs, I think screen flows a 100 bucks, Camtasia is like 2 or 300, I don't know off the top of my head.  Instant Teleseminars is another one that we use to record teleseminar phone calls. The quality's a little higher than free conference call. I think it's like 50 bucks or 100 bucks a month depending on how many calls you make, again, it's just the paid version of free conference call which is on the last slide. 

Then you have Go to Webinar software if you want to do webinars and turn that into a product. Then as far as microphones go, you can go into any Apple store right now and get the Blue Snowflake. I think they're like 100 bucks, they're amazing microphones. Right now I'm using the CAD-U37. I got this at Guitar Center, it was around $40 and you guys are listening to the sound quality right now, I'll (?) it up. It's a $40 microphone, it's USB and plugs right into your computer. So that was a long winded way of sharing a ton of tools there.

Andrew:	That's a lot of details there. I'm actually seeing how fast you talk and I'm both impressed and a little concerned. How are you doing with time? Do you have enough time to continue? 
 
Greg:	Man, we're rocking and rolling.

Andrew:	This is your normal pace? I don't know you keep up with this pace. I'm sitting here with my jaw open going wow. I must be talking really slowly, but it's working for me. 

Greg:	Well luckily people can rewind this and they can download it.

Andrew:	And we're going to give them the transcript as well too.

Greg:	Yes, say they can take notes, exactly. So they're good to go. 

Andrew:	And I'll say that I'm using the Road Podcaster software microphone, to do all this kind of movement which is sometimes work and sometimes not. I'm using Camtwist. Alright, so the next big idea is to deliver and you've got the specific formats in a specific way that you think people should deliver the products that they're creating.

Greg:	Yup, so we just talked about. So we started with creating, knowing who your audience is and then creating the framework which is the step by step. And the last kind of section who talked about how to record it. So once you have those steps go and record it, whether it's audio, whether it's video or whatever it is. But what I want to talk about now is that most product creators don't realize that adults learn and behave in the same way that kids do. Right? So what I mean by that is, if you have children you know that some are really good at book reports, some are really good at dissecting the frog and ripping it apart. 

Others are good at you know studying, some are good at study groups, some are good at reading the textbook. They're all different. But adults we're the exact same way. I mean just in our office alone I mean, I watch videos, my partner Nick listens to audio at the gym and my other partner, Jack, loves printing stuff and highlighting it and doing all the old school stuff. So I was learning this all about learning styles. And if you go to Wikipedia and search for learning styles you'll learn all about this stuff. And you can actually alienate a third to a quarter of your market for every learning style that you don't incorporate. So what I mean by that is, if you only have audio you might be missing 75% of the market. If you have audio and transcripts you might still be alienating 50% of the market. If you have video, audio and some kind of a transcript, you know, you still might be missing part of the market. 

So the four parts of it are audio, video, something to read and then something to do. And the do part is something that people a lot of times miss. And so as we dig into this you want to create products that appeal to all those learning styles. The easiest way to do that is to multi-purpose content. So, Andrew, exactly what you do here with Mixergy is we're recording this in video, you're going to give them the option to watch the video. But they can also listen to the audio if they just want the audio. 

Then you're going to get it transcribed so that people can read it, right? So that's 75% of the audience. The other 25% that you want to hit is you want to have them do something. And you do that by allowing people to leave comments and then people can go back and forth in the comments section. Other people maybe have private Facebook groups just for the members of their product where you can have live discussions. That's something to do. They can get feedback. Other things to do maybe having live Q&A calls. Some people have group homework assignments that they can turn in and you give them feedback or you grade it. You know, some people have live events tied to their products, right? So buy the product and, you know, a couple of months later we'll have a live event. We'll all get together and talk about the product.

So that's the fourth element is the do, right? So the two easiest ways to do that, start with video. Strip the audio out using a program like Switch that I told you about earlier. Then get it transcribed and then create an action guide or a workbook. That's kind of the easiest way to do it. So out of the video, out of the video that I'm creating now I'm sure we can easily create a workbook with, you know, what are the three ways you can record an audio product without spending any money. You know, and just do fill in the blanks. Well I could use audacity or I could use free conference call, or you know, so on so forth. So just kind of create fill in the blank questions. And that's a great way to create an action guide.

Right, so the other way to do it is to start with audio, record the phone call on the way home from work. Add slides, so jump into PowerPoint and listen, while you're listening to the audio you know pull out the key points, make some bullet points, like the slides I'm making for this. And then use Windows Moviemaker iMovie to then sink the slides to the audio. And that sounds a lot more difficult then it really is. But you just export your PowerPoint or keynote as images. You get individual images and you just drag them as long as you want them to be in the video. And boom, now you have audio and you have video. Again, get it transcribed and then create the action guide. 

Those are two great ways to hit all four learning styles. And when you hit all four learning styles you encompass the whole audience. Because when you're selling your product and you're like, I got this great video course, it's four hours long, you know I can't wait to share it with you guys. Well the guys like, I don't want to listen to, watch videos, right? So a cool story, well a bad story that we had is that when we released a new music economy it was just videos. Four 30 minute videos. And I have actually a lot of overseas musicians buy the course. And what happened is they would get the course and they'd be in some crazy country and they'd be like, Greg, if by the time my bandwidth gets the video and renders it and loads it, you know, it's going to take me a week to watch a 30 minute video. But he's like if you gave me the transcriptions I could read it right now, do the homework and be done with it. So you're alienating your audience. So think about their technological restrictions, think about their preferences. You know if you're selling to an older crowd think about maybe doing physical products versus digital products and get something in the mail. They might like CD's right? They're not as cool as us kids who like MP3's and put stuff on the iPad. You know, they're driving to work and they've got a CD player. 

So think about all those different things when you're putting your product together. Yeah man.

Andrew:	I've actually heard that. One of the companies that you've got here on the slide, Kunaki, they convert digital into physical products. Right?

Greg:	Yes. So yeah, so really as there's no reason that you can't offer both digital and physical products. A lot of people when they think of physical, and I'll use the music industry example is, when I got my CD's created with my band you know we went to Discmakers and we ordered like 5,000 of them. Well I've got 4,000 of them sitting in my Dad's, you know, closet still. Right. And as entrepreneurs, small business owners, I don't want 500 of my products taking up space and I don't want to have to pay for that, right? 

So, if each product costs 15 bucks to product, if you've got a big CD/DVD product, you know, you don't want to shell out that money. So companies like Kunaki and another one called Vervante, will print your products on demand. Which is really cool. And what that means is, if you're selling a CD, right, and the CD is the four steps to lose weight in 30 days, as soon as someone buys it from your site you forward the receipt to Kunaki, they print your CD, they do all the shrink wrapping and all the covers and burn it and all that stuff. And then they drop ship it right to you client. You never have to see it at all and then you just make the difference. Kunaki right now charges about 5 dollars for a CD and 5 dollars for a DVD. 

So, if you're selling this thing for 27 bucks, your cost is 5, you know you've made 22 dollar profit, which I think is what we all want to see. Vervante takes it a step further in the fact that they do binders and booklets and newsletters and all kinds of books and things like that. Right. So if you wanted to do, we just got done doing a six CD, six DVD set with six action guides and six workbooks. Vervante prints those on demand. So I get an order in, I forward the receipt to Vervante, it takes them like a day or two, they ship it out to my client, my client's happy and it's really a win-win situation.

So really think about that. Because using services like that there's no reason not to offer both physical and digital. You can charge more for physical. There's that like thump factor that when you get the box and boom it's in front of you. You know you get cool stuff. So definitely think about creating both physical and digital products.

Andrew:	Before I move onto the next big idea, can you just explain the concept of a stick letter? Since you're saying that we need to pay attention to physical, to the design of the product, how it's packaged, and the stick letter. What is the stick letter?

Greg:	So the stick letter, alright. So what I like to, how I like to phrase frame this is P90X. Right. I think a lot of us are familiar with this, the crazy workout system called P90X. And what happens is when you first get P90X the first DVD that you ever put in is the hardest workout of your life. And you are like throwing up and your sweating in your living room and you got your AC cranked down to like 40, and you're puking. It's disastrous. And you're like, this was DVD 1, what's DVD 2 going to be like? Right. So you always want to make something at the beginning of your product kind of give them an introduction to what's going to happen, what they can expect. Give them a small action item, right? 

So, the stick letter on an online product course is usually just a quick video. So I always do a quick video where I'm like, hey this is Greg, thanks for joining this product. Here's what you can expect. The first module's here. You can see some fun stuff up here that you can click on and here's a quick exercise I want to do to get you guys started. And I do a really quick exercise, it takes them like two minutes and they're like, wow, this was fun. I'm glad I got this. They're thanking me, Greg's a real person. And it's just a great thing to do.

Now with a physical product, they call it a stick letter because it's the letter that's on top of all the CD's and DVD's and it says, before you rip all this stuff open do this. And it kind of tells you this is the order you should do, this is what you should open now, this is what you should save for later. It tells you, you know, here's who you can contact for customer support, all that good stuff. And it really just tells them what to do now that they've got all this stuff. Because it can't be overwhelming. I mean if you get a box with ten DVD's in it you're like, oh what do I do, right? So the stick letter helps them do that and it helps to create better retention of how people use your product.

Andrew:	I see, all right. Onto the next one which is build your sales page, your access page, and start collecting the revenue.

Greg:	Yeah man, that's the fun part, right? So now you've created your product and now you want to share it the world and you want to get paid for it, right? You want to make three months salary in one night like I did the first time we sold our product. So what you need to do is, the absolute worst think that you can do is to take someone's money and hope that the technology does what it was supposed to do. Right, so the first product that we, after we did the webinar we released this product just as a regular product you can buy on the site. 

We were just using PayPal. We didn't know anything about fancy shopping carts, we didn't you know to use all these cool tools. I mean, we literally had PayPal. And you know, you would click on the add to cart button, you'd go to PayPal, give the money. And then PayPal was just supposed to magically give them the product. Right? Well about 50 to 60% of the time PayPal never redirected the people. Or the people didn't click on the click here to get your product step in PayPal. 

And so, we'd get all these e-mails from people just being like, Dude are you like a scammer, like I just gave you 50 bucks and i don't have a product. Like, or are you sending it in the mail or like, you know what's the deal? And that really hurt. It can hurt your reputation really deeply if you're not delivering what you're supposed to deliver. So the first thing you need to do is you need to have a sales page. And that's the page on your website where you're telling people what you got and how to get it, right? And you know you can make it as complicated or as simple as you want. Some of our sales pages it's just a quick 5 minute video of me being like, hey what's up, this is Greg, I just got this really cool product. You know and here's what it looks like. You know I open it, tell them what it is, and I'm just like here's what it will do for you and here's how to get it. Click the add to cart button and you'll get instant access, whatever it is. Others we have you know, the long form super long sales letters because we're really trying to convince people, overcome objections, answer your questions through testimonials all the good stuff. That's really, it really depends on you know your market, right? 

But you need a page to do that. And we use two different resources. One is Kajabi.com. And this is a self-hosted platform that will do this for you. And they will create all of your landing pages. If you want like opt in pages where you're giving away free reports, for a name and e-mail address they'll do that for you. They'll do the sales pages. They have cool drag and drop widgets and fun little color schemes and all kinds of cool stuff. And they'll actually also host all of your membership content. So all your videos and downloads and stuff like that. They're self-hosted so you're going to pay them monthly to host all of your content. 

The other one that we use is for all you Wordpress users out there is Optimize press. And this is the one that I use and I use it daily every single day of the week I'm in Optimize press. Again it's an all in one Wordpress theme. And we use it for our landing pages, our sales pages and our membership site.

Andrew:	This is just a design of the membership site, right? They don't manage members, do they?

Greg:	No, so Optimize press is just kind of the, yeah, it's the layout, it's the template. Right. So what we use for actual membership kind of software is, we use Wishlist member. And there's a ton of them out there. I'm not here to say one's better than the other. We use wishlist member. It works great for us. And this is where when someone buys, now, they get the page that's generated by Wishlist member that says, create your account, you know. What's your name, what's your e-mail, what's your user name, what's your password? And then Wishlist handles all of that stuff. It sends them an e-mail saying, hey thanks for being a member. Here's your user name, password, (inaudible) and all that good stuff. So Wishlist, super cool resource.

Now to take money from people we no longer just use PayPal's interface. We use a bunch of different options depending on the product but the one that we really use on a day to day basis is One Shopping Cart. And One Shopping Cart is a shopping cart, it can hook up to your merchant account that you can get with like authorize.net or powerpay or bankofamerica or wachovia, or whoever you're using for your bank. They've give you the merchant account that actually processes the credit cards. What One Shopping Cart does is it makes that look pretty, right? Because banks have no idea how to do any of that stuff. 

So, One Shopping Cart is the interface for that. And through One Shopping cart you can set up all your products. You can say how much your products are. If there's you know payment plans, all kinds of good stuff like that. It will also handle your e-mail management so when someone becomes a customer versus a prospect. And it can also handle your affiliates which is really cool. So an affiliate is essentially someone you are going to pay commission to, they will refer the sale to you. Which is really cool especially when you're selling information products, a digital download. You know if you're selling a 50 dollar e-book or video course your cost is virtually nothing. So you can afford to give an affiliate 10 bucks, 20 bucks, (inaudible) 40 bucks for the sale, and you still get a really cool profit margin. So One Shopping Cart handles all that stuff. 

The other one that we use, if you're selling a digital only product. That means no physical, you're not shipping them anything in the mail, is we use Click Bank. It's really cool because they handle all the payments, they handle the refunds, they handle the transactions. They do everything. And they handle the affiliate management and every two weeks they send you a check in the mail. So they take care of all the fees and everything and you get a check every two weeks for your product. I don't think there's an easier way to get started. And we're going to talk a little bit more about affiliates in a couple of minutes.

Andrew:	Do they intregrate, does Click Bank integrate with One Shopping Cart and Wish list or do you need to sell through them separately?

Greg:	So Click Bank integrates with Wish List. Yes. Click Bank replaces the need for One Shopping Cart. So Click Bank will act as your shopping cart, as your payment processing solution, as your affiliate management. They take care of all that. And they take their fees and stuff and they just cut you a check. Where as One Shopping Cart is yours, right. So you're actually taking the payments, you're processing everything through your own software. So those are the two kind of resources. I really recommend for someone just getting started, if you're starting a digital only product, try Click Bank. It's a 50 dollar one time set up fee, and then they just send you a check every two weeks. You don't have accounting, you don't have to worry about charge backs or refunds. They do all of that for you. It makes your life really easy when you're getting started.

Andrew:	All right. And finally, AWeber for email list management. We use it here at Mixergy and it ties in really well with Wish List. So if you're using Wish List, as soon as somebody registers, you can have them automatically get added AWeber really easily.

Greg:	I love it, I love it. We do have couple quick screen shots to show you guys kind of the process of sales pages.

Andrew:	OK.

Greg:	So, the first one that we have is the sales page for the new music economy, and this was made using OptimizePress, the WordPress theme that I shared with you. And you can see that there's a header graphic at the top for Gen-Y Rock Stars, New Music Economy. And then, here's our headline:	How you can build an army of fans that are begging to buy your music, helping you quit the rat race, to share your music with the world. So, again, that goes back earlier when I was telling you who my customer was; it's that person who really just wants to quit their job at McDonald's and make a couple bucks, get a couple fans and share their music. Right? 

So we get the headline and then we have a quick 9-minute video that explains the product right under that video is actually the, just the add to cart button. It says, hey, you ready to sign up? Add to cart. And that's all there is there. So, really simple, guys. We didn't try to make anything over-the-top or crazy. It really just is headline, a little bit of information, and a video saying here's what we got, here's what it'll do for ya, and here's how to get it. So, that's The New Music Economy. 

So after they buy, the next one that we have is, this is a Wish List member kind of registration form. And it's for our ProductPro system. And you can see after they buy they're redirected to this page where it says choose a username, what's your first name, your last name, your email and choose a password and it tells you how long your password needs to be and all that. As soon as you hit the sign-up button there, then you can go to the next slide and then you get a membership site. 

And this is the membership site that we have for The New Music Economy. This is actually our New Music Economy blueprint, which is a 12-module course. And again, this is using OptimizePress as well. And you can see, you have all your lessons and modules there, and we have resources and Q and A calls, all kinds of cool stuff. So you can see that just using OptimizePress we built our sales page, we then redirected them using Wish List to build their membership, and then once they become a member here's how we deliver the information.

Andrew:	Got it. Really easy tools, pretty inexpensive, easy to use, and they'll work with WordPress, which makes things really easy for people.

Greg:	Yes, yes. I love WordPress because it's that all-in-one solution. You're already using it, so why don't you add on tools to just make it more effective.

Andrew:	All right. I've got to say that we use Premium Web Cart instead of 1Shoppingcart. And the reason we use it is that it automatically takes the person's first name, last name, email address, puts it into a Wish List, automatically generates a password for them, so they don't even have to see Wish List until they're ready to log in. And I hope that's working for people.

Greg:	I like that. That's a great resource.

Andrew:	All right. Premium Web Cart and let's go on to the next big idea, which is to get some help. Specifically, outsourcing.

Greg:	Yeah, so outsourcing. So, one of the first products that I created outside of the music niche was a product called the Seven Job Seeker Secrets. I had a background working a day job for job board and I knew a lot of stuff and when I left, I was, like, well, I still have all this knowledge, I might as well help some job seekers out. So I went to go create the product and... I am the world's worst designer. Like, I just have no skills. You guys can see from my slides.

Andrew:	Actually, I disagree. Check out this slide. Look at how nice this looks. You did these slides? I mean everything just looks really hot.

Greg:	Well, I appreciate that, but I mean, really, like, design - nothing. Like, I literally, I, like, steal Flickr photos all day, and that's the extent of my design. So what we did is I went to ...I was, like, well, I need someone else to design my Ebook cover. So we went, and we looked at all kinds of different options. And there are tons of outsourcing sites out there -- everything from 99 Designs to Elance to ScriptLance. The one I ended up choosing, for no particular reason, was ScriptLance and I was ... I found a guy on there and he was super cheap. I went for cheap instead of quality. And this guy said for, like, 20 bucks, he'll build me all this stuff. And was, like, all right, that's awesome. I can't wait for, you know, 20 bucks, I got an Ebook cover. 

What they don't tell you when you're first getting started outsourcing is that they're only as good as the directions that you give them. And I gave them awful directions. I assumed that he was going to use his own, you know, design skills and, you know, design ninja-ness and give me an awesome cover. And I have a picture of that DVD cover there and it is God-awful compared to what we're doing now. I mean, literally, he just found some clip art and threw it on there and you can actually see the new one, the new design. This is one of the ones that we just did for a doctor called Weight Management University. And you can just see the level of just the difference in what we are able to do. 

So, when you're outsourcing, what I want you to do is your people are really only as good as the directions that you give them. So let's start with the things that you can outsource. The first thing is transcriptions. So this call, it's a little over an hour now, and I'm sure right around an hour, and I'm sure we're going to talk for a few more minutes. I don't want to sit there and listen to this call and transcribe it word for word myself. Andrew, you have better use of your time. There are more high leverage things you can do. So transcriptions, great thing to outsource. 

Where we found all of our transcribers is we use a site called fiverr.com, and this is a site where people do random stuff for five bucks and they do really silly and stupid things, like, "I'll be your Facebook friend for five bucks" or, "I'll break up with your girlfriend over e-mail for you for five bucks." But there's also some really cool business things that people will do. And what we found is someone will transcribe 15 minutes of audio for $5. So if we had an hour long call, I know I could pay 20 bucks and get the hour-long call transcribed. And so what we do is we hire three people to do the same job and we see who does the best job. And what we do is then we contact that person off of Fiverr and we offer them kind of like a W-9 contractor job for all of our transcriptions. That's exactly how we found our two transcribers that we have in-house right now.

Andrew:	That's great

Greg:	So I went to fiverr.com. We paid five bucks, had them do 15 minutes. You get two that were subpar, one that stood out, and we're, like, "All right, let's contact you off." We pay him a little more than they would get on Fiverr so they pick our projects over the Fiverr projects first. Great way to find transcriptions.

For design, there are so many cool resources for design now. What we do, we have two full-time designers on staff now. Both of them are in Eastern Europe and we found them on odesk.com. We've also used crowdSPRING to do covers, and we've done some really cool contests for our book publishing side of our company where we do books called "Celebrity Press." We actually use crowdSPRING for all of our book covers. And then we've used 99designs. I mean there are so many cool design resources. And I'll give you some tips to hiring designers in the next slide.

Printing, I already told you guys Vervante and Kunaki are two really cool sites to use. Mediatechplus.com is who we use for everything else. And that means if you are ordering bulk, if you are trying to do any kind of crazy things, like some of our products that we do for some of our clients, they include like a T-shirt or they include like mp3 players with all their content already loaded on, and we use Media Tech Plus for all kinds of cool printing stuff.

Other things that you could, you can outsource your PowerPoint slide creation. I outsource a lot of my PowerPoint slide creation. Video editing, audio editing, putting together e-books, all that kind of stuff are cool things to outsource. 

So really, what we try to get across is that record the product with your information because you are the expert. You are the person that wants to share this thing with the world to help this person get from point A to point B. As soon as you're done recording, hand it off.

Andrew:	I see.

Greg:	Right?

Andrew:	Yes.

Greg:	Use your time to high leverage, building the sales pages if you're writing the sales copy, finding partners, finding ways to sell the product while someone else is making the product. Again, use high leverage things there.

Andrew:	All right.

Greg:	Cool?

Andrew:	Yes, absolutely. And by the way, I do recognize the Apple design here. You're using Keynote for design which helps a lot.

Greg:	Yes. It does, yes.

Andrew:	You got some tips for outsourcing.

Greg:	Yes. So again, the most important thing is the directions that you give them. So I just put a post up on product for a systems blog and it details exactly what I told my designer. I want this size. I want these fonts. I want these colors. I want these logos on and I want this text. I want it to be this big, the font points. And they sent it back the first time and it was 99 percent of the way there. I had two little changes and I got the perfect cover done. 

So again, if you are just like, "All right, I'm trying to do a product on water polo. Can you just put a water polo guy on there and say 'The Secrets to Water Polo?'" you are literally going to get a black cover that says "The Secrets to Water Polo" with a cheesy water polo guy that they got off Clip Art because that's the actual directions that you gave them.

When you're looking for designers, interview rigorously. And the other thing there is only interview people whose portfolio directly reflects the look that you want. So if you are looking through someone's thing and you're, like, "Yes, that stuff is kind of cool. I bet he can do this style," well, he can't. You can't change someone's style. You can't change someone's, the way they look at the world, especially on designers.

So if you want a certain look and feel, you want the Apple glossy, look for designers that have Apple glossy. If their portfolio has no Apple glossy, you don't want to be the first person that they test Apple glossy out with. All right?

Andrew:	Right.

Greg:	Again, we hire typically two to three people, have them do the same job, and the best work wins. I was kind of telling you that with Fiber [SP], and then with outsourcing we pay by the hour now, not the job, and we monitor that through oDesk.com. We can see what they're doing with their time, and we find that we get a better quality product than if they were just doing by the project. If they know they're just getting paid by the project they can kind of skimp on things, they can take their time, and if you pay them up front it takes a little longer, but we pay by the hour and for us that seems to work out better. That might not be your case, but I just want to share the things that work really well for us.

Andrew:	That's great advice. I wish I had learned to hire two people for every job early on. It costs just a little bit more, especially when you're giving them test jobs, but you really get to get a sense of the person when you're paying for their work and you're seeing the results. 

Greg:	Absolutely.

Andrew:	Aright, so next is "use paid traffic wisely." Do you want to talk a little bit about that? We don't have any specific screenshots for that I don't think. 

Greg:	No. Well, first, a misconception is people are [??] the social media stuff and with all the free resources people are like, "I'm just going to put my product on my blog and hope that it sells." The biggest misconception there is that you really can spend money to buy customers. If you're buying $1.00 a click and you're selling a $100.00 product, there is [??] margin there. Now obviously not every person that clicks is going to buy. 

Now with that Job Seeker's Secret product we put out there, we started running Google AdWords, and we were paying about $1.00 a click to bring in people that were interested in fixing their resume or career transitions, things like that, and we ended up spending about $500.00 in like 3 days, and we made 5 sales of a DVD that we were giving away for free, so that cover that you saw was actually a DVD, and we were giving the DVD away for free. They just had to pay for shipping and handling, so it was like $6.00 or $7.00 or something. Essentially it covered our costs at Kunaki and it maybe gave us $1.00. 

So, essentially we paid $500.00 and we got 5 people in return that barely covered our costs, so we lost $500.00. On the back-end of that product, which we're going to talk a little bit more about back-end in a minute, was that we were hoping to sell those people into a monthly membership were we would continually give them job seeking skills and training, and all that stuff. Of the 5 people that bought, no one bought into the monthly, so really that put a really sour taste in my mouth. You spend $500.00 in 3 days and you get 5 customers and none of customers want your back-end. That's bad. That would be like "I'm never running pay-per-click again." So a few years pass by and I'm working with my partners Nick and Jack now, and they're like, "Hey Greg, I bet our customers are on Facebook, and I bet that we can put ads on Facebook and drive some really good traffic," and the cool thing is that we charge premium prices for some of our products. 

A pricing strategy for some of you guys is that you can also charge more for your products than you think you can. So if you think that it's only a $20.00 product put it out there for $50.00. If you think it's a $50.00 product put it out there for $100.00 and see how it affects the sales, because if you really have valuable information that helps people get rid of a problem they'll spend a lot of money on it. Actually there are a couple of slides. There's one that's called "Brian Tracy Show Example"...

Andrew:	Yup, let's bring that up right here.

Greg:	...somewhere in there. So what we did is we had a product we were selling that was to be on the Brian Tracy Show. Brain Tracy, if you guys don't know him, he's kind of a legend in the motivation/leadership/sales training kind of area. He's trained over 5 million people in over 40-somehting countries and he's got 45 best-selling books, and he's just a really, really cool guy, and we were doing a TV show where you could appear on a TV show with Brian Tracy, so our target was then fans of Brian Tracy. 

People who, on their Facebook pages, had read one of his books, or they were fans of him, yada, yada, who were over the age of 30, because we wanted to qualify them to where they at least had a little bit of money, and they lived in the U.S., because we were doing the shoot in Orlando, so we didn't really want someone traveling from Australia because they were going to be a lower qualified prospect. So based on that, in Facebook that gave us 30,440 people to target on Facebook. To put Facebook ads on to buy this product, and we ran these ads for [??] 3 weeks, and if you go to the next slide I'll show you guys the results from that. 

Andrew:	I kind of leaked that a moment ago, but there it is.

Greg:	 Oh, it's all good. So the results are that we ran it for 3 weeks, and we got 237 new leads, and what I mean by leads is that they gave us a name and e-mail address in exchange for a free call that we did with Brian Tracy, so we just whetted their appetite to get them in the door. From that we asked for a consultation, so we were like, "Hey, if you're interested in getting this Brian Tracy product, give us your phone number and we'll set up a consultation." So of the 237, 84 gave us a phone number that we could call them with. 

So, a lot of people think this is just an internet game, but we get on the phone and we talk to people and we're like, "What's up with your business," and we learn from them and we see if the product is a really good fit for them. So just because you're selling an info product doesn't mean you can't jump on the phone and talk to someone. So, 84 phone numbers, now we are calling these people, right? The total costs of running the ads for the three weeks was $979.15, so we spent just under $1,000. The cost to get someone, to get a name and e-mail address was four bucks, $4.13. The cost to get a phone number, $11.66, and our cost per click, 0.81¢. The revenue that we generated from less than $1,000 in cost of the ads was $12,000. We were selling a $3,000 product and we sold four of them. 

So again, we were selling a premium price product so this is a little bit different than selling a $50 e-book. But the numbers scale lower than the numbers scale higher. So with 84 people that we have phone numbers for, we sold four of them. We made $12,000. And to me, that's when I'll spend a thousand to make $12,000 in my business any day of the week. 

But not just that, we now have 237 people that we can re-market to, that we can send them other products and services. We have 84 phone numbers that we can have consultations with, learn about their business, put it in our database, and do all the stuff that I mentioned. Remember when we got started, which is learn about your target market, figure out who they are, what are their needs, what are their concerns, so this is a win-win campaign and that's how you can effectively buy traffic.

Now I will say that it definitely helps if you had a premium price product. If you're trying to sell a $47 product or a $100 product, it's more difficult but not impossible to do this. So pay-per-click, definitely a great way to buy leads, buy customers for your products and services.

Andrew:	It worked great for you guys with Brian Tracy.

Greg:	It did. It sure did so it's a really, really cool thing that we did. [??] Yes?

Andrew:	So here's what we've got next. Can we talk about all four of these? I just added them to the board out of an ambitious sense of completion. How much of these do you think we can get to?

Greg:	Let's go as quickly as we can. Let's knock them out because this is fun stuff.

Andrew:	All right, go for it. So let's start off with promote your info product for free. What tools do you say do you think people should use to promote for free?

Greg:	So we love other people's audiences, right? And the cool thing is people have already built an audience and you can leverage that. So just like I am right now, Andrew invited me to be on Mixergy, I'm leveraging your audience to tell people all the cool stuff that I know. And if people like the stuff that I have to say, they might reach out to me later and say, "Hey Greg, let's do business together." Well, the cool thing is there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, if not millions of sites out there that you can also do this with. 

So one thing that we did is a really, really cool promotion that we wrote a guest post, just a guest blog post for a marketing product we were doing, and the guest post was called "The Diddy Guide to Constant Creativity and Relentless Marketing." And we wrote on this site called thinktraffic.com. It's written by Corbett Barr, really super cool guy. The site gets a ton of traffic. And we wrote this guest post. 

And after the guest post went live on his site, his readership went nuts, and they started retweeting it and posting it on Facebook, and they kept retweeting it and retweeting it. Well, little be known, about four or five hours after the post went live, we actually got P. Diddy to retweet about the article. And we got a screenshot there that shows the post and the retweet because I mean I still think it's cool that Diddy is retweeting like a marketing post and ... 

Andrew:	Actually, it doesn't look like I've got that post here, but we can get it from you afterwards.

Greg:	Oh man, did I not give you the full one?

Andrew:	That's too bad.

Greg:	Oh, that's terrible news.

Andrew:	My list ends at number 32. All right. We can include it afterwards.

Greg:	All right. Well, either way, so P. Diddy retweeted us and I mean this post just blew up. I mean we had hundreds of comments, thousands of retweets. It just went nuts. And it sent a ton of traffic back to ... so people then went to the post and they read it and they're like, "Wow, Greg is a pretty smart guy. This is a really cool post." And at the end, it says, "Hey, Greg's got a cool new product. Click here to check it out." And so we made a ton of sales by leveraging the Think Traffic audience. But then we doubled it because we got P. Diddy's audience and it was really just this trickle-down effect. So leveraging other people's audience, so, so crucial to building what you got. It's that Field of Dreams thing. If you build it, they will come. Well, they won't, but someone else already built it and used their farm. But you got to bring valuable stuff to them.

So to keep going leveraging OPA, I kind of combine two bullet points into one, but ... 

Andrew:	What you're talking there was about ... that's the story that we were going to tell about, how to use social media and how to use free content to bring in customers, and now, how do you use other people's audiences. And they do tie in with each other. That's why I highlighted them like this.

Greg:	Yes.

Andrew:	So you're going to talk about Mashable.

Greg:	Yes. So Mashable has gotten huge, right? They're a really big site. We had a conference here in Orlando called IZEAFest put on by izea.com, which is a social media company, and one of the editors from Mashable was there. And we broke for lunch and we went to downtown Orlando, and I was just walking around saying hi to friends, and I see her at the bar by herself. And so I walk up and I'm just, like, "Hey, what's going on? Can I buy you lunch, buy you a beer?" And she's, like, "Heck yes. I'm vacationing. I'm in Orlando." And so we had a beer. We go to talking and she was doing some consulting work for a company that was in the entertainment world. She's, like, "Can I use you as a quote since you have this general rock star site that talks to musicians?" and yada, yada. And so we built a real relationship.

Now two weeks later, she asked me for that quote. I gave it to her. Two weeks later, she goes, "Hey, why don't you write something for us at Mashable?" So I didn't even have to ask them. She actually asked me because of the relationship we developed. And we ended up writing two guest posts for Mashable about four or five months apart. One was to Gen Y startups and how they use social media. And the other one was how musicians are using social media to connect with fans. Both times, blew it up. They were the Post of the Day. This one I'm looking at now has 508 comments, 500-something retweets. It's just crazy amount of traffic. 

And so what ended up happening there is at the end of the article of the music one, we were like, "Hey, Greg just opened this really cool new music program called New Music Economy Blueprint. If you'd like to check it out, click here." Boom. It ended up getting four sales at $500 a piece. So from that one guest post ... 

Andrew:	You know what? Sorry. First, for some reason, as you're talking, there is some kind of distortion coming in from your mic. How much was it?

Greg:	It was a $500 product.

Andrew:	Oh. It looks like, if you unplug and plug it back in, I've seen that work for Leo Laporte, maybe that will do it here too.

Greg:	Right.

Andrew:	Your mic, I mean, if you unplug and plug back in. Let's see how that works.

Greg:	Are we back?

Andrew:	Yes, that helps. Oh, but I think we're now on your computer audio.

Greg:	Oh man. No fun. Let me see what I can ... 

Andrew:	What can I do to fix this? I think once you go onto Skype and adjust, it will kill your video. No, now you're no longer on the mic at all.

Greg:	Uh-oh.

Andrew:	Oh.

Greg:	Hello, hello? Will this work?

Andrew:	Yes. You're using the computer audio but it's fine.

Greg:	Oh man. Well, we'll knock it out quick so then ... so it was a $500 product and we ended up selling four from people that read that article. So $2,000 in sales off of a guest post that we wrote for someone else, all because of a relationship that I had where I bought someone a beer. So relationships matter. The places where you put your content matters. It's just really, really cool strategy that we use. So how to leverage audience pulsing [SP], do your research, right? We already talked about, again, we use alltop.com. We just build out a top 20 list, top 50 list of all the people that we want to leverage our audience. You can use [??] directories, association lists, whatever it is.

Then we create this killer spreadsheet and we have all these names. We want the name of the person that writes the site, the URL, their e-mail, their Twitter, [??] Facebook. We go and get Alexa numbers, Quantcast numbers. We get how many comments, how many average comments these get, phone number or Skype contact that they have on them [??] killer spreadsheet. And then we build a real relationship with them. We comment on their blog. We send them e-mail. We get them in and we just follow up, follow up, follow up. You build real relationships with real people.

And once you do that, you do something remarkable for them. It could be a guest post. It could be helping them as an affiliate. It could be sending them a pizza when they say on Twitter that they are having a terrible day and they are starving, and you jump on Domino's and you say, "Hey, send a pizza to Andrew at Mixergy because he is having a bad day and he needs a pizza," and you get that delivered. But do something remarkable and then get in. And when you get an opportunity, like the one you have today, like today, I mean I hope that I'm delivering content that's valuable to you guys, right?

Andrew:	Was I on one of your spreadsheets?

Greg:	You are. You are. So that works, right?

Andrew:	You know what? I really am grateful to you for contacting me and doing this. We have two more points. I'm not saying goodbye but I'm really grateful. You have given us so much freaking value here. You're helping me out. You are dealing with some of the tech issues as we were bouncing back and forth in the beginning. So I can see why at the end of this, somebody would be so freaking grateful they couldn't wait to help you. I know I feel that way. I can't wait to reciprocate.

Greg:	Exactly. Well, I appreciate it. And then at the end, it's thank you's, promotion, and reciprocation. So Andrew, thanks for having me on the show. I really appreciate it. Handwritten thank you notes if you have them. Luckily, I have some books that I have been in, and so I'll send people signed copies of books. I promote the heck out of people. So if someone else is doing something cool, I'll promote them. I'll tweet them. I'll Facebook. I'll do whatever I can. And then reciprocation. What can I do to help you? You help me out. What can I do to help you? Really, really helps you to leverage that OPA. And so let's really quickly, we'll jump in to the last point because I know we have been on here forever.

Andrew:	It really works. I already have buyers. And the last point is build your back-end with continuity and you teased that earlier. What do you mean by that and how do we do it?

Greg:	So the back-end, the biggest thing that I like to teach people is you don't want to be in the $27 and the $47 business. If you are relying on selling a $27 e-book everyday to pay your bills, to pay your mortgage, to feed the kids, you got to sell a heck of a lot of $27 e-books every single day in order to hit those numbers. What you want to be in is in the extension business. So you have cool free content that could be your blog or your newsletter. 

Then you have your front-end product, which is anywhere between your $27 and your $100 product that gets people in the door. So obviously, you got a big audience that gets free. You have a smaller audience that's going to buy something [??] from you, and that starts to get your income in. And all you are trying to do here is you are trying to separate your window shoppers from your buyers. And it's such a mean thing to say, but when you are in business, that's really what you're trying to do. 

Now, out of those people that buy your $100 product, if you over-deliver, if you give them everything that they needed to get the solution that they want, some of them are going to be, like, "Hey Andrew, I need more. What else can I get from you?" And that's where you have coaching programs. That's where you have group Q&A calls. That's where you have live events or you have masterminds or one-on-one times where they can come in and fly in to your office. And you really start to create that business because selling a $27 product, if you sell 100 of them, that's 2,700 bucks. But if you have one person joining your thousand dollar a month coaching program, you only need two of those people to hit the same numbers as selling 100 of the other one. So it really just starts to add up and stack, and that's really where you can help people. You can add value to them. 

And for me, it's giving people levels of access. So on your blog, you have a certain level of access. They can leave comments and they can kind of see the front-end of the business. When they buy your product, they get a different intimate level of access, right? Now, in a group coaching, they have another level of access. It's shared access to you but it's a different level of access. Now, if the purchase one-on-one or if they purchase to go into our mastermind where they get to spend three days with you, it's a different level of access. And people pay up that extension ladder and that really creates a complete information business model.

Andrew:	All right. I don't even know how you can talk this much, but I'm incredibly grateful to you. You've given us everything that we can do on our own. But what's shocking to me is you are in the business of doing all of this for other people. In fact, here, let's see if we can bring up your website. What is this site and what is this site? Can you tell us a little bit about your business? And if someone wants to follow up and do even more with you, what can they do?

Greg:	Definitely. So essentially, what I did today is I gave you all the tools that you can take to start creating products on your own, selling products on your own. There is absolutely no reason that you can't do it yourself. But here is the thing:	at the end of the day, we're busy. We're running a business. We're starting a company. We're doing the things that we do on a daily basis. For a real estate agent, he doesn't want to have to learn how to edit stuff. He doesn't want to have to learn how to do graphics. He doesn't want to have to learn any of that stuff. For other entrepreneurs, like you're busy doing what you do best. And so we come in and we do it for you. So we do done-for-you information products. 

So if you come and you are, like, "Hey Greg, I got this idea. I don't know what to do with it," and I know it would be really cool, well, you can hire us and we'll come in and we'll help you create the framework. We'll help you create the outline and we'll teach you how to record it. Most of the time, we'll record it with you, where there is audio we're jumping on, a webinar, a teleseminar, whatever it is to record this up. Then we edit everything. We do all the graphics for you. We get it loaded up into a membership site. Whatever you need, we will take it from start to finish and do it for you. And we also have some... 

Andrew:	You even built a ... I'm sorry to interrupt. Remember where you stopped. You even build a membership site for people?

Greg:	So we give them what we call like a thank you or access page where we host all their videos for them. We host all the audios, all the PDFs, and we just give them the HTML and they can kind of copy and paste and put on kind of a membership page of their own. And then we also do build out membership sites using OptimizePress and Kajabi to, if they want that next level of intimacy with the membership sites, so yes.

Andrew:	Sorry. Because that took me so long to get right and for the first year, we kept having the thing crash because I didn't set it up right. The software has gotten better and better to the point where now I can manage it on my own. But I would have loved to have had this. I didn't realize this kind of service existed. All right. Sorry. You were saying something else that you do.

Greg:	Yes. So it's a complete done-for-you solution. And some other people will come to us and they'll be, like, "Hey Greg, I held a seminar and I got eight hours of footage that we took. Can you do something with it?" And we'll take it. We'll edit it and we'll create a product for you. I mean we run the gamut. We do your physical stuff. We'll get everything printed for you. We'll do all your drop shipping for you. Whatever you need, we do that. But we also teach you guys step by step how to do this, and that was that Info ProductPro site that, Andrew, you just had up. And it's a really cool launch that we're doing and you can learn a ton. 

Right now, if you go to infoproductpro.net and throw in your name and e-mail address, you'll actually get a video from a conference that we threw called "The Bestseller Summit" where we had 100 bestselling authors and I taught them all how to create info products and it really breaks it down. And there's all kinds of free content and stuff and then obviously there's some products we sell at the end but it's fun, man. I really enjoy what I do. I enjoy working with the people who we work with. We've done everything from creating dating products for women. I just recorded a product on Friday that was three and a half hours on menopause, tactics to survive menopause. We've worked with contractors, authors, entrepreneurs, marketing, you name it, we've created a product on it in the last year.

Andrew:	Do you help people break down the process to, so that they can teach what they know well?

Greg:	Yeah. So that's one of the cool things that we do and I was trying to move my computer here, but our entire wall right here is a huge whiteboard wall. So when I'm talking on the phone with someone, I go through that (?) exercise that we went through earlier and I'm just like all right, so you know water polo, right? So what's the first thing you do? And how did you do that?

And I just drill it down. And I write it. I've got this huge wall full of products. I take pictures of it, send it to you, and we break that into an outline so you know exactly what to say in module one, what to say in module one video one, video two, video three. And we break it down really nicely for you and we help you create a really killer product because I really want you to sell a product that people get results from. Because if your customers get results, you get results, you're going to pay me to do more cool stuff. So that's kind of how I put it together.

Andrew:	All right. And people want to see that. I'm going to go to the webpages. If they need their products created for them, that's ProductProSystems.com. ProductProSystems.com. 

Greg:	You got it.

Andrew:	And if they go to InfoProductPro.net, they can learn more about how they can do this themselves.

Greg:	You got it.

Andrew:	All right. Man, thank you so much for doing this session with us. I really appreciate it.

Greg:	Thanks man. I appreciate you having me.

Andrew:	All right. Thank you all for watching.