Transcript Of My Interview With Ann Siner
Read this first
– The actual interview with video, audio and text is here. You should start with that.
– This text is here because Mixergy reader Roshan Martin thought you’d want to read it. (Thanks Roshan!)
The transcript
Andrew:
Hey everyone, it’s Andrew Warner, founder of Mixergy.com, home of the AMBITIOUS UPSTART! And I asked you to help me meet more female entrepreneurs, so that I can round out my interviews, here on Mixergy, and you’ve helped me meet lots of great entrepreneurs, including Ann Siner, who you’re about to meet in this program. Anne is the cofounder of My Sister’s Closet, a consignment shop. You’re going to find out, in this program, how she went from working in a company where she had safety, growth, good salary and took the risk and started her own business; and also, how she protected herself from the downside of those risks, but keeping her costs low. You’ll find out how she did that. Obviously in a consignment shop, your expenses are reduced. And also, by having that…the fallback position, listen to her talk about that. You’re also going to hear her talk about…oh, when she got her business, landlords wouldn’t rent their space. Listen to the creative way that she pursued getting space; listen to how she made that deal happen. I think it says a lot about entrepreneurial determination and creativity. I think being an entrepreneur, I think building a business, building a startup is one of the most creative activities you can have in business, maybe even the most creative way to build a business. You’re also going to find out her relationship with her sister, you‘re also going to find out about….oh here’s an interesting point….family! You’ve heard me talk to entrepreneurs about how family fits in with their business, listen to her perspective; it’s a little different than what we’ve heard from other people and I think it’s an idea that’s worth hearing. Umm…what else… how the recession has helped her business, because she’s selling, basically, used clothes on consignment, and well, I’ll leave the rest of my notes out for now and I let you discover the story on your own. But I want to make a note here. I think you know that the way I do my interviews is by Skype. I sit here in my office, the entrepreneur, or business person, who I talk to is sitting her office; we Skype into each other. In this program, I think, going back and looking at it a little bit, the Skype connection wasn’t as strong as it should have been and so you’re going to see that there are some stutters here in the video, but the audio is still smooth and I think the audio is clear and if you disagree, let me know in the comments; I want to hear from you. Alright, so, all that and so much more in my interview with Ann, here it is!
Andrew:
Ann, what is My Sister’s Closet?
Ann:
My Sister’s Closet is 10 stores, that are basically high end, consignment, resale, whatever you want to call it, recycled items, located in Phoenix and Scottsdale, Arizona.
Andrew:
So, where did the clothes come from?
Ann:
The clothes come from people just like you and I, Andrew, that…we buy too much, we change sizes and your options are to donate, give them away or bring them to us and let us sell them for you and you get some money back.
Andrew:
I see. And how are you different from other places where people can buy used clothes?
Ann:
We’re different from other places in that we’ve tried not to be your typical mom and pop kind of resale store. We’re open seven days a week, we’re at convenient locations, we’re open in the evenings, as soon as items sell you can come in and collect the money; we don’t make you wait three months until our cash flow’s better. We also try to be driven by the customer that’s buying the items, in that we price the items very inexpensively. Let’s face it, they’re used. In this economy, retailers are already marking things down low; so we’ve got to be really low, with good quality.
Andrew:
Ann, the brand names, as I understand it, are high end right? We’re not just talking about regular clothes. We’re talking about the top of the line. Can you talk about some of the brands that are in your store right now?
Ann:
Sure, we do carry a lot of ready-wear brands such as Ann Klien, Ellen Tracy, Tehari, but then we go all the way up to Chanelle, and Escada, and Prada and Louis Vuiton, Gucci and its fabulous names that people spend, literally, thousands of dollars on and they are not using them anymore and so we give them a second life.
Andrew:
Alright, and one more thing just to establish your size in peoples’ minds; you are an INC 5000 company in 2008. Can you talk about what your sales were then?
Ann:
Yes, in 2008, our sales were a little over $11 million, for the 10 stores.
Andrew:
$11 million, in these 10 stores. And were now going to talk about how you got here, how you got to… how you started the business and how you got here. So let’s start off with 1991, when you started the business. What was the idea for it back then and where did it come from?
Ann:
The idea was interesting. I was Director of Marketing for Petsmart. It is just a fabulous company. I got in on the ground floor, when they were Pet Food Warehouse, and I really learned the whole cookie-cutter approach of “find a good business plan and start rolling it out.” It was on a business trip down in Texas, I’d never been second-hand shopping before, I went in a nice store and the wheels started turning and the idea was sort of born. I thought, when I get back to Phoenix and Scottsdale, I want see what’s there if I wanted to buy something second-hand. And I walked in the stores, and they struck me as dark-dirty-dingy. And we said, why do they have to be this way? Why can’t they look like a brand new boutique, why can’t the things be cute-current-clean? It kind of sprang forth from there.
Andrew:
And cute-current-clean, that’s the model of the store right? That’s what you look for, that’s the impression that you want to leave people with?
Ann:
That is it, just in a nut-shell.
Andrew:
Alright, did you have any entrepreneurial experience before?
Ann:
I did not.
Andrew:
You didn’t. So it’s a tough leap to go from having a good career, you were rising in the ranks with a company that was growing, to go from there…to go starting your own business, is a big leap and a big risk. Why did you decide to take it?
Ann:
It was a huge leap. And like I said, Petsmart was a fabulous company, I had stock options, I had already been promoted twice in three years and it was nothing but growth written all over it. But, I also knew that I had a big mouth and I didn’t always know when to keep it quiet in a corporate environment. And I like being my own boss. Petsmart was very good to me when I left. They told me I could continue to do consulting with them, so I knew I had a fall-back position if I needed, you know, more money or things didn’t work out with My Sister’s Closet.
Andrew:
I see. It’s nice to have a fall-back position, to be able to go out there and take a risk. So, having the company gives you the opportunity to express yourself. You say a big mouth, I say to just be yourself and speak out and say what’s on your mind. What other benefits are there to running your own business, versus working for a great company like Petsmart?
Ann:
One of the best perks of running your own business is that, you can choose the 16 hours a day you want to work. *Chuckles* I’m just kidding, sort of. You do set your own schedule. I think you have to be a certain personality, that you can make your own decisions and say “I’m going to stick with it” or to know when (you want advise,) but once again, to make the final decision.
Andrew:
How much of a business plan did you put together before you started out?
Ann:
You know, I’m kind of a nerd and I love to sit down and do spreadsheets. And since we were a different concept, in that we wanted to go into some nicer places in town, these shopping stores said “We don’t want a thrift store, especially some unproven idea.” So, we put together (what we thought) a pretty good business plan, with some numbers, with some marketing ideas and a nice little shopping center in the Biltmore area of Phoenix said “Ok! We’ll give you a try.”
Andrew:
So, you had to convince them to let you rent from them?
Ann:
Yes we did. We had to actually have a clause within our lease that, at any time, if our appearance didn’t meet what they wanted, that they could ask us to leave the shopping center.
Andrew:
Alright, so most people, if they would have come up with this idea and gone into a shopping center, been turned down once or twice and definitely three times, I think most people would just give up and say “This idea doesn’t work.” Did you feel that you wanted to give up when they said no? Did you feel that, “Well, if they don’t think this is a good looking store, or they don’t think this is a good concept, they know better than me, I should walk away from it?”
Ann:
We actually were turned down twice. We had letters of intent in the works, and other tenants in the shopping center said “Don’t you dare let in a resale store.” So the third time, we weren’t going to just let it go, we kept trying new things and that’s when we presented the idea to the landlord that “Okay, if you don’t like our look, at any time, you can ask us to leave.” And what can he say; he had nothing to lose then!
Andrew:
*Chuckles* Alright, actually, I can see that he might have something to lose because he still has to redo the store, he still has to go out and find another tenant, but I can also appreciate, as an entrepreneur, that if somebody came into my complex and said…and offered that kind of deal, I’d say alright, if she can think creatively about how to get me to…how to win me over, she’s going to think creatively about how to build her business; she’s someone I want to be in business with, I think.
Ann:
Yeah! They gave us that opportunity and I think they did like our marketing ideas in the business plan.
Andrew:
Alright, so now you’ve got the store, you’ve got the location; you need to fill it up. Unlike a regular store, that would go out to manufacturers and then start bringing in merchandise from them, you’ve got to go out and get clothes on consignment. How do you fill up a store, one person at a time?
Ann:
That’s a good question, especially starting out when nobody knows you, or you know, or anything about you. We’re in a good location, for people that know Phoenix, Camelback Road is a huge street; 66,000 cars a day driving buy. So, we put out signage, we ran little ads, and then we called in friends, we called in favors, everything we could think of. We went to yard sales, and we just started amassing the product as quickly as we could. We started out small, it was only 1200 sq-ft, and that was our biggest concern; could we get enough high quality product and, once it’s sold, keep turning it and keep the store full. And we were absolutely amazed at the response.
Andrew:
I keep hearing that about entrepreneurs who start out; the first people they hit up for support are their friends. Maybe they’re starting an online community and an online community stinks when it’s empty, they go out and recruit as many friends as possible and get them to join in. Maybe they’re trying to create comments for a new blog; their friends are the first commentors. So, I love seeing that that also is true out in the brick-and-mortar world. How much came your who gave you stuff on consignment and how much came from you going out to….I guess you said yard sales, or garage sales?
Ann:
Yard sales and then just putting the store-front sign out “Now Accepting Consignments,” you know “Any Day of the Week, Just Stop in with Your Items.” It was probably, when we first opened, 50% friends and 50% new people we hadn’t met before.
Andrew:
Wow, 50% from friends! What else have friends, in the early days, helped out with?
Ann:
Oh, our friends were fabulous! We did the whole build-out ourselves on the first store. We foux-finished the floor, it was the messiest project you’ve ever seen. And all of our friends came and we put on our nastiest clothes and , for two days using epoxy paints, painted this floor; it was nice and it….the support from friends just, you know, “come in the shop and try out the store!” It was fabulous!
Andrew:
That’s great to hear that they’re willing to come in and do that. I know that having a friend come over and paint a house, is sometimes tough to do, but when you’ve got a mission like that, when you’re starting a new business, its (I think) people want to feed off of that energy. They say, “She’s out there pursuing her dreams, she’s out there putting something in the world, I want to be a part of this somehow. Did you find that with your friends, or am I just putting words and experiences in your mouth?
Ann:
No, they were wonderful and we told them we’ve got a special teacher here, that’s going to teach all of us how to foux-finish. So everybody said, “Oh great! We can all learn to foux-finish while we help you out!”
Andrew:
Oh wow! Okay, so I started my business with, the first business that I had, I started with my brother. And I know, from the material that I’ve got from your company, that you and your sister started the company together. How did you approach her to joint you in the business?
Ann:
At the time, I was about 32. She’s 9 years younger, so she was in her early 20s, and we’re a good yin-and-yang combination because she’s very artsy and I’m very…more numbers oriented. And I just said, “Jenny, what are you doing, why don’t you do this with me?” And she said, “Okay, good idea! Let’s get going!”
Andrew:
And what were the responsibilities? How did they break down? Were you responsible for one part of the business and she for another?
Ann:
Yeah. It‘s fallen into place really nicely. She does all the merchandising and the displays and the planagrams for the stores now, and I would rather go out and figure out where we’re going to open up a new store or handle the marketing end of things….and just…everything fell into place.
Andrew:
Okay, so we talked about how you got the clothes in the store, in the beginning. And I’m sure, eventually, it just kept rolling along, where people would see the store, they’d know what you were about and they’d bring their stuff in and you wouldn’t have to go out so much to bring in new merchandise. So that’s an understanding of how the merchandise comes in the store. How does it go out the store? How do you find your customers?
Ann:
Going back to one thing you said, Andrew, we now have 67,000 consigners; so, we have things coming in like you can’t believe. And then, in terms of finding our customers, it was, first, just going after your basic working women that “you need a new wardrobe, you need something new to wear to work” and let’s face it, your basic suit could easily cost you several hundred dollars. What if we could sell you that same suit for $24.95? How can you say no? And so, we did a lot of advertising, playing off those price-points.
Andrew:
Okay. First year, I know in retail (my dad was in retail for a while), I know the first year is the toughest. You’re figuring things out, things that you thought would go one way, end up going another way. Can you tell me a little bit about what that experience was like? The highs, the lows, the ups…just the first year and then we’ll talk later about what happened afterwards.
Ann:
Yeah, actually we were very lucky the first year. We were in the black within three months of opening. But, it’s partly because my sister and I ran it ourselves, in the beginning, worked it ourselves. There were challenges, when all of a sudden, we’re getting in so product; we have no where to put it and we’re stacking it in the back from floor to ceiling. But overall, it was nothing negative. It was all in terms of growth. It was, you know, a good problem of too much coming in and it’s like “Ok! Let’s have a sale and sell more!” *Chuckles*
Andrew:
Okay, before we continue with the rest of the story, I’ve got to ask you, why is it that….well, I’m asking you why is it a problem getting women entrepreneurs on Mixergy? But, you and I met, because a few of my viewers have said, you’ve got to meet Ann! And one specifically helped put this together and I’ll thank them on the site when I post this interview, but it came from me wondering why I can’t find more female entrepreneurs and I’m wondering if you’re noticing that in your experience; that it’s harder for a woman to be an entrepreneur, or that there aren’t as many out there or, in your experience, are there a lot out there and maybe I’m the one whose doing poor research and not reaching out properly?
Ann:
You know Andrew, I’m not sure. I know a few good friends that are in retail, that are female, that have started their own business. It’s a constant challenge. And we were lucky because in the consignment business, at least you’re not out laying the cash for the inventory. One of the common problems made in our industry though, is people think “Okay, you know, I’ve got all this cash coming in and forget that 2 or 3 months down the road, you’ve got to start paying you’re consigners/bidders. I don’t know why it’s so difficult to get women in. I think one of the reasons is, the challenge. I think we’re nurturers and care-givers and the idea of not having that steady income and taking that challenge or going into the deep unknown….It’s sometimes overwhelming.
Andrew:
I see. Do you think it’s a different experience for women being, as you said, nurturers very often? You’ve seen men entrepreneurs, you’ve seen female entrepreneurs; you’re in business yourself. Do you see a difference? And, if you don’t, it’s fine. I don’t want to start finding an issue, where there isn’t one. I just thought I’d bring it up and see what your feelings are on it.
Ann:
Well, I think, men are more daring and more willing to take the risks. As sad as it makes me to say that, I would like to see both sexes, you know, willing to go out and take the risks and try something new, but I think, overall, men are more open to it.
Andrew:
Okay, what about this; another demographic question. The stereotype is that, the only time to start a business is right out of college; and of course people coming right out of college, they hear the opposite, that you should first get a job, build up your career and then start a business. So, I think that there is…the reality is…how do I phrase this question…let me ask you this, what was it like to start a business in your 30s?
Ann:
Oh, you know what? I couldn’t have done it straight out of college. I was way too naïve and ignorant; I would have made so many more mistakes that would have been catastrophic. Whereas, like I mentioned with Petsmart, I had learned so much working at the company. Even retail jobs that I had in college, were a huge help to knowing various little things: how to deal with customers, how to do book work, all those little basics that when you come straight out of college….you need some hard knocks, you know, to learn the ropes of things, before you dive into your own business.
Andrew:
Do you have one big lesson that you took from Petsmart that you were able to bring into your business?
Ann:
Yeah. I think it is, sort of, the “category-killer” approach. It’s a negative term, but Persmart…..i don’t want to say “they went after,” but in the end, they sort of did go after the mom-and-pop type of little pet stores and, I think, that’s what we learned in our business; it was, you’ve got to go and give the customer what they want and not design your business around what you want. I’d love to have a business that’s, you know, 2 minutes from my house that I only run Tuesday through Saturday from 10 to 2, but the reality is, my our customers want us there at 7 at night, they want us there at Sundays; and they might want a location that’s 30 minutes from where I live, so it might not be convenient for me. And that’s what I learned from Petsmart, just give the customer what they want; don’t just set up a business based on your own personal needs.
Andrew:
And speaking, by the way, of time; when I spoke to your people, about doing an interview with you, I usually do my interviews at 11 am Pacific, and they said 11:30 would be easier for you. So again, another random question, but sometimes I ask random questions and I end up getting the best business lessons. What is it about 11:30, versus 11 o clock in the morning; what’s the difference?
Ann:
Well, Andrew, I feel so selfish; but, in the morning I like to set aside just a couple of hours, usually from 8 to 10, and I go just do stuff I want to do. I go play tennis, or I go work out and I was afraid that I wasn’t going to be back by 11! So, I just gave myself that extra half hour.
Andrew:
You know what, I’m glad that I asked that question! So, I keep hearing that you should set aside time for yourself; that you should put it in your books, schedule it and not adjust it, just like you wouldn’t adjust a meeting with someone else. And you actually do that; you will go out and you’ll play tennis in the morning, you’ll have your own time and you stick to it.
Ann:
Yes I do; and, I mean, I’m so selfish….If someone calls me, while I’m on the tennis court, I say “Oh! I’m at a meeting!” *Chuckles* To me, it is that time you need to get your brain straightened out and to do something for yourself.
Andrew:
Oh wow. Okay. And I can attest to it, and I asked a few times about 11 o clock, they told me 11:30; it’s not a big deal for me, 11 to 11:30, it’s not like I’m on a network right now, where somebody else needs to put on a show after me. But, it’s interesting to learn, it’s interesting to see that. What kind of benefits….well, first of all, where did you start with this? How did you decide that you were going to set time aside for yourself in the morning?
Ann:
I started real early, to say, “Okay, I’m going to get up at, you know 6, go do something from 7 to 8, and then it just became, one of those things with “You know what? I’m going to need this 2 hours of my time in the morning for whatever. And, I don’t mind working till 7 or 8 o clock at night. And in retail, let’s face it, a lot of retail people are late people; stores, a lot of times, don’t even open till 10 o clock. So, I think it all, sort of, evolved…but its, as I’m 18 years into it and getting older and more “crochety”, I’m saying “Oh, I’m going to do something’s for myself.” *Chuckles*
Andrew:
Can you give me a benefit, that’s come to you, from doing this, from setting aside that time for yourself; and if somebody calls, you say that you’re at a meeting and really being firm about owning your own personal time?
Ann:
Probably, the biggest benefit is, that’s what’s kept me in business for 18 years. I think if I had been, “from 8 in the morning till 8 at night, let’s do nothing but the business,” I’m going to just become terrible, old and curmudged! *Chuckles*
Andrew:
It keeps you from burning out, to have that time.
Ann:
Yeah!
Andrew:
I’ve talked about myself. In my first company, Bradford & Reed, I would work non-stop, weekends; I would think that I was taking time away, but really what I was doing was going into Central Park in New York, with paperwork and magazines and books and reading, and I didn’t realize that doing that, day-in day-out, for a few years was going to burn me out; which is what it did. So, I wish I’d done that; at some point during the day or week, decided to do something other than work.
Ann:
The other thing, Andrew, I found is that, if I do get any kind of epiphany or great idea, a lot of times it’ll happen on those mornings that you’re up for a hike or a bike ride and just with the clear head, when you’re not supposed to be thinking about work!
Andrew:
I don’t know if you’ve noticed this; people who’ve been watching me for a while, know that I keep taking notes. I’m such a note-taker, so as soon as you said epiphany, you’re absolutely right; that’s where the epiphanies come from. They don’t come from sitting at a desk and starring at the monitor over and over. So, I wrote that down to make sure to bring that up at some point, when I recap our interview. Okay, so we talked about the first year; things went well, you were profitable first year, you were starting to roll. When did you decide to open up another store?
Ann:
We knew, within the first year, we had outgrown the space and began talking to the landlord about taking some additional space. So it was, 12 to 16 months later, we did take additional space within the same shopping center, just to alleviate the stress of too much stuff coming in.
Andrew:
I see. So, the first move was just to replace your first store with a bigger shop?
Ann:
That’s what we wanted, but unfortunately we couldn’t do that. So we opened a second shop within the same shopping center. We tried to divide…we made it a more formal store with bridal wear and formal wear. So, if you were looking for something fancy to wear, that was the store you went to. In the end, we learned that women didn’t shop that way; we were able to consolidate the two stores into a bigger one, but at least that alleviated the stress of so many items coming in and where do we hang them all.
Andrew:
Okay, so that brings me to the next set of questions that I’ve got. You don’t just have My Sister’s Closet, that original store; you’ve got a few other brands! You’ve got My Sister’s Attic, which sells home furnishing from brand names like Pottery Barn and Thomasville. You also have Well Suited, which is for men; you also have Small Change, which I think is for kids’ right?
Ann:
Yes.
Andrew:
So, why did you decide to get into different categories, instead of just taking that one successful formula and saying “What other cities can I expand into with this?”
Ann:
The whole reason behind it was, once again, customer driven. Women would say, “We love the way we can just drop off our things, we can come anytime we want, collect our money or store credit. “ They said, “Gosh, we wish you could do furniture, we’ve got a house full of furniture, or we wish you’d do men’s things; my husband just cleaned out his close, it’s got beautiful Armani suits. “ Wheels started turning and we said, “Oh! Yeah, we need to expand this way rather than go to other cities.”Having worked for Petsmart and other big companies, GenRav, I’d done business travel; it’s not always fun.
Andrew:
I see, so part of it was customer driven and the other part was you driven; you deciding that this is the lifestyle you wanted, to be within a smaller radius?
Ann:
That’s right.
Andrew:
I see. And why didn’t you decide to just get one big box store, call it…maybe not My Sister’s Closet, but My Family’s Closet and put all the categories into it, everything from kids to furnishing to men’s and women’s?
Ann:
We did look at that as an option, but when we…we did a little research too. And, what we found was that, someone like yourself, you didn’t want to walk through My Sister’s Closet to look for a tuxedo for you. Or, if you were out shopping for your kids, you know, you didn’t want to walk through a men’s store. And the stores we went in, that were everything “all-in-one” box, looked like a backyard sale!
Andrew:
I see! Did you ever have to close down a store, as you grew?
Ann:
Yeah. We’ve had to close down a couple of stores. We did a men’s store up in the North Scottsdale area, and it just didn’t fly; the men up there wouldn’t shop it. And the store that I told you about, that was more of the formal wear, and wedding dresses, we closed that down as well.
Andrew:
I see. And, can you tell me about the thought process that goes into closing a store? I know that it’s one of the most responsible things that you need to do in business, to know when you need to close something down and move on; but, also as entrepreneurs, we want to hang onto things because we’re proud of them, because we created them, and also because we’re eternal optimists, where we always think we can turn things around! So, how did you….what did it feel like to decide that and what got you to make that decision? I’d love to learn from your experience.
Ann:
That was the epiphany. That was the 3 years of running the men’s store and saying, “Okay, it’s doing a little better now, the feedback from men is so good,” and the clothing quality, coming in, was tremendous up there, because of the affluence of the area. But, it was like the men wouldn’t shop it! And all of a sudden, we looked at it and said, “Our furniture store is doing so well up there, and we need more space for it,” and we knew we were tied in to the lease; it was a matter of looking at numbers and saying, “Here’s the sales per square foot of furniture, we need more space. Here’s the sales per square foot on the men’s store, lets’ convert it over to another furniture store and make some more money!”
Andrew:
I see. So, when you started to see the numbers, if you have good data, the data will be the best driver you’ve got?
Ann:
Absolutely!
Andrew:
Okay, alright.
Ann:
I think the data, plus, a little bit of your own intuition.
Andrew:
I feel, sometimes, that intuition can be biased by optimism; that, what we as entrepreneurs sometimes think is intuition, is really our belief that we can do anything. And if we didn’t have that belief, we may not have gotten into business in the first place. But, once we’re in business, it can screw with our intuitions, screw with our thinking, screw with our analysis. Don’t you think?
Ann:
Oh, I agree with that!
Andrew:
So, how do you overcome that? Is it a partner, who is the “abominable no-man”, as Warren Buffet says about his partner?
Ann:
No, I think that , in the end the numbers won out. It’s still…you listen to your gut and say, “I thought a men’s store would do good in North Scottsdale, but in the end, you know, you’re right; sometimes, your own thoughts are not on track. So, it’s majoring, or weighting that against hard black and white, here’s the facts: It’s not working! *Chuckles*
Andrew:
Okay. So you’re building this business up, mostly its success, you’ve got a couple of stores that you need to close down, but you’re still growing, growing, growing. What’s actually…what’s the growth year-over-year, with the business?
Ann:
Almost every year, it’s been double digit growth. This year it is phenomenal. We have been up 20 – 25%, over last year, and we haven’t opened a new store in two and a half years.
Andrew:
Wow, wow! So, by the way, is the recession helping the business?
Ann:
Yeah. I mean, I’m embarrassed to say it, because so many other businesses are struggling. But, the number of new people bringing things in to sell, and the number of new customers coming in to try us this year, is just phenomenal! And, I know, that’s what’s leading to our 20 – 25% growth, over last year.
Andrew:
Wow! 20 – 25% growth, over last year! I should find a way to write these notes down quicker, so I don’t interrupt the conversation with my note-taking. Okay, so the business is growing and then 9/11 happens; which hit a lot of us badly. Can you talk about the experience of 9/11 on your store?
Ann:
Yeah. It was the absolute scariest thing that has happened to us, in almost 20 years that we’ve been in business. We were in the midst of opening up a couple of new stores at the time, so we weren’t really flushed with cash. 9/11 hits and you’re not sure what people are going to react to it. Is everyone going to rush in and need all the money on their consignment account, are they going to hoard up in their house, are they ever going to drive up on this street again, are they ever going to shop again? And then you…after a couple of weeks of seeing, okay, people are coming back out. The other thing about Phoenix is it’s very tourist drive. As you know, planes weren’t flying, people weren’t coming in. Without tourist traffic, we said, “Oh my God! Our sales are going to be down. “A lot of people were in, just begging for jobs, just saying, “You know what, just give me a job. I’ll work for minimum wage, you know; I’m living out of my car now!” It was a really tough time.
Andrew:
And so, did….was it as bad as you expected it to be? A lot of it…well yeah, it sounds like it, right? That, because there wasn’t enough tourism, sales were down, but…well, actually, you tell me. I’m going back and forth about the way to ask this question, so I’ll just ask you: were sales down because of 9/11?
Ann:
Sales were down a little bit for a…..I’d say a matter of a few weeks. But, once again, I think it speaks to the American public that we want to get back out and shop, get our lives back on track and try to normalize things as quickly as possible! So, in the end, it ended up not being nearly as bad as….
Andrew:
So, did it hurt to have to close down a store because of it? Was there any….with just a few weeks of bad sales, and then things were pumping again?
Ann:
It was a matter of a couple of months of down sales and then things stabilized and things started going up again.
Andrew:
Okay, alright. So, one of the things that I do(I think) differently than most people who talk about entrepreneurship, or talk about businesses, is that I try to ask the personal questions, so that we can fit the business in with the rest of our lives. And you and I, before we did this interview, had a conversation about your partnership with your sister, and some of her challenges, including rehab. Can you talk about that, and how you guys made the decision, and how it impacted the business and the relationship?
Ann:
Yes and when I think back, she was very young, being in her 20s. And, we were both younger! But, to be in business with your family for almost 20 years, speaks volumes to her. And the fact that she was willing to go into rehab and work on an issue…and one month in rehab doesn’t solve it, it’s the rest of your life that you’re struggling with it. And, if anything, it made us closer. She brought me a note after that, that said, “You probably saved my life.” Which, just….what more can you say?
Andrew:
Wow.
Ann:
Yeah.
Andrew:
And, was the partnership on track afterwards? Did you get back to where you were? Or, did she need to take some time away from the business?
Ann:
She took some time away from the business and we were, then, in the midst of opening another Closet location in Scottsdale. And, all of a sudden, I realized that I would be up early in the morning, and I wasn’t exercising then, I was catching up on the bookwork, going in, opening the store, running the store, trying to fire people and I realized, “I really need her back, I really miss her!” She’d been off for a couple of months and all of a sudden, she was ready to come back; and she came back with a vengeance!
Andrew:
How did you guys come to the decision that you needed to go and get some help?
Ann:
It was a family decision. It was…we have another sister, and my parents, and all of us just said, “This is just out of control. The things that are happening are so bad.” And we literally sat down and did an intervention, and she listened, and she said, “I’ll do whatever it takes.”
Andrew:
Okay, and not just to talk about her, we also talked about you and your decision not to have kids, because of the business. Can you tell us how you came to that decision and the impact that it’s had?
Ann:
Yeah, its….what I tell some of my female employees is that, as women, we think we can do it all, we think we can have a significant other, we think we can have a full-time career and we think we can raise a family. And in all honesty, something has to suffer somewhere! And what happens, I think, with a lot of people, is you push your husband aside; and the poor guy, you know he’s like “Wait, you know, you never have enough time for me. You’re either with the kids, or in your job!” And in this case, I wanted to go full force ahead, with My Sister’s Closet, and I was doing some fertility treatments, and I realized, “You know what? I don’t have the time and energy to give both to my business and to this job of trying to create another being, and I said, “In my life, I’m better off probably not to be a mom.”
Andrew:
I see. So, it was…you were trying for a while there, and you said, “Maybe this is too much. Maybe I’m trying to take on more.” So, how has that decision affected you?
Ann:
In the long run, I have to be, once again, a little selfish and say, “My life is really good!” It’s easy to travel and I’m very much involved with animal rescue and I’ve got 4 big rescue dogs of my own. So, they are sort of my children!
Andrew:
I read that, at one point, you took in 22 cats into your house, And, by the way, Olivia (my fiancé), after a run recently, rescued a cat; I’ve never experienced somebody bringing in a strange cat into the house before, I didn’t grow up with them, but I saw the way this cat just needed to be around people, I saw the way this cat was transformed. We took him to the vet; I spent, like, a weekend on this one cat! Well, Olivia did; I was mostly at that vet’s, with my iPhone looking up different news stories and playing games on it! But, I saw how much this cat changed and then we found a home for it, and I’ve got to tell you: that was one cat; started off strange for me, but it was so rewarding at the end! I can understand why you’d take in 22!
Ann:
And what happens is, I don’t want to sound like a hoarder, but at the Phoenix pound, it’s kitten season and they’re buried and they’re going to have to start euthanizing them because they’re out of space; but if they can find a foster home, they can take them for a few weeks, until they’re big enough to get spayed and neutered. Then, they’re ok! So I said, “Okay, I’ll take a couple, and then a couple more, and a couple more, and then okay, I’m at my limit!” *Chuckles*
Andrew:
Yeah, I don’t want to leave people with the impression that you got 22 in your house, right now, running around the office! But, there was a point where you said, “I’ve got to take care of as many of these being as I could and you brought in as many as 22. So, how many dogs and cats do you have; that are in your house now?
Ann:
Well Andrew, I’ve learned to say no! My 4 own dogs, which are big rescue dogs; I’ve got 2 cats of my own, and right now, I’ve got a room devoted just to 1 mama cat and her 4 babies.
Andrew:
Oh wow! I’ve got 1 dog and 1 cat, and Olivia and I are planning to go to Argentina and thankfully in Argentina, you can bring pets with you pretty easily and bring them back home! And if we weren’t going to Argentina, I would have kept that little cat; that was a great cat! You’re also a traveler, from what I understand, right?
Ann:
I love to travel! And I’m married to a man who “Travel” is his middle name!
Andrew:
Oh, that’s idea! I’ve seen people who, one, one person in the relationship loves to travel, the other person is a homebody, and that’s a tough conversation to have over-and-over, when you want to go and travel. So, where have the two of you been?
Ann:
Most recently, we went down to the Antarctic! And, when amongst the penguins, in the icebergs, it was an absolutely phenomenal trip; very remote and just literally another world!
Andrew:
What kind of travelling do you like to do? Do you stay at posh hotels; do you to ruff-it? Do you like new experiences?
Ann:
You know, I like a mix. And I’ll be the first to say, we do these SilverSea trips on the cruise ships and they are so accommodating; everything you could want. It’s such an easy life! And then we also go down to Costa Rica, to more of an Eco-Lodge kind of place; totally off the grid, you know, bring your flashlights because there’s no electricity, and I love that too! But I still, no matter what thought, I’ve give up sleeping on the ground! I do want a bed at the end of the day.
Andrew:
I don’t think I’ve ever done that! Well, I did actually. I did a week long bike ride trip, and every night I’d have to sleep on the ground of another church; and it’s rough when you have to get up in the morning the next day and go out for a ride! Speaking of Echo, the company… See, I keep saying Echo, and when I mean to say Eco. They’re two different words, and if I mispronounce Echo, then I’ve.… If I’ve mispronounced Eco and say Echo, then I’m giving people the wrong impression. So, Eco Chic is the name of the company. Where does the environment fit in with your business plan?
Ann:
The environment fits in because we are truly recycling. And, not only are we taking items on consignment that are nice, but when you bring in things that we can’t sell, we can take them for you and donate them onto a thrift store. We are truly, the finders of another life for your items!
Andrew:
I keep talking about myself in this interview, but I did an interview with Tom Zache, the founder of Tera Cycle. He says, “There should be no garbage in the world!” If he had his way, he would find a way to make sure that no one ever threw anything out or nothing that they threw out went into landfills, because he could take it and re-make it into new products. He says, there’s money in the business, and apparently you’re seeing that too.
Ann:
Yes.
Andrew:
Do you have any advice for entrepreneurs who are just starting out now, based on your experience?
Ann:
Based on my experience, I think what I would tell them is: do go in with enough savings that you can get by with for 3 to 6 months; that’s a no-brainer. And also, be ready to….for some failure! Don’t go in, like you said, so optimistic that you think, “I’ll make anything work.” But be ready to say, “Okay, this isn’t working. Either we need to change the plan dramatically, or I need to shut it down.”
Andrew:
See, that’s great advice. It’s hard advice to recognize, but it’s great advice to live with. Alright, well thank you! Is there anything that I missed; is there anything that we need to talk about, tell people about?
Ann:
I don’t think so Andrew. It was great talking to you!
Andrew:
Well, thank you. Thanks for doing this. I hope, when I am in Arizona, I could come into one of your stores and meet you in person.
Ann:
Please do!
Andrew:
I’d love it. Thank You! Thanks for doing this interview!
Ann:
Thanks Andrew!
Andrew:
And there it is! That’s the full program. I want to thank Manamae for making the introduction to Ann. I wouldn’t have found Ann, if not for you. So, Manamae, THANK YOU! And I’m going to link over to your website, so other people can get to find out about you and what you’re working on. And, by the way, if you’re watching these programs, and have heard me call out for feedback, or call out to hear from you; DO IT! Manamae emailed me, I’m connecting with her, this program was done because of her. The more I connect with you, the better these programs will be; and, by the way, that’s one of the benefits of a program like this, like Mixergy. We have an advantage here, over a show like CNBC, because we get to go deeper into the subject, we get to spend more time, without commercial breaks in the middle. But also, we get to have a conversation, you and I. So, I read every single email that I get. I read all the comments, as you can see; you can click through the website and see that I read all the comments and respond to just about all of them. And I want to hear from you, I want to connect with you, so that we can improve these programs, so that I can be of more help to you. So, THANK YOU Manamae, thank you to you when you come back to me; I’m assuming that you will come back to Mixergy and find a way to connect with me too. So, that’s the first thing I always ask at the end of a program, to hear from you; I want your feedback. The second thing I do is, I tell you to go check out the website that we’ve talked about. In this case, the business isn’t a website, but it has a website, so I’ll link you over to My Sister’s Closet, so you get a sense of what the business is about. Hopefully, if you’re in Arizona, you’ll do what I’m going to do and go in and see the store yourself, and go in and talk to Ann and say Hi to her. Finally, click around Mixergy.com. I’ve got tons of other interviews, designed to help you become a better entrepreneur. Go and download them. Go and build a better business and then come back to Mixergy and give me your feedback!
I’m Andrew Warner; I’ll see you in the comments.