How to use cold emails
(That make sales 90% of the time)
Taught by Bryan Kreuzberger of BreakthroughEmail.com
Master Class: Cold Emailing
Andrew: This session is about how to use email, cold email, to make sales. It’s led by Bryan Kreuzberger, founder for Breakthrough Email.Bryan: [laughing] You nailed that!Andrew: You know what, I’m laughing because I mispronounced it earlier even though I’ve got the pronunciation up on my screen and I wanted to make sure not to make the same mistake twice. Let me say it again, it’s led by Bryan Kreuzberger, he is the founder of Breakthrough Email, which teaches you how to get any meeting using cold email.He’s done over $20 million of new business from clients which include Bank of America, Home Depot, and MasterCard, and more importantly, his students, people who’ve- businesses who’ve learned from him, have done over $30 million in revenue over the past 18 months. So he’s done it himself, he’s taught others how to do it.
I’ve invited him here because of emails like this one that I got form a member here on Mixergy. This is Mikai[SP] who is saying would be super, super excited if you could interview a person who has had a ton of success in sales for example how to locate people’s contact information, email addresses so that we as the Mixergy community can reach out and close those sales. That’s why I put this together. My name is Andrew Warner. I’m the founder of Mixergy. I’ll help lead this. Bryan, thank you so much for doing this session with me.
Bryan: Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m pumped to be here.
Andrew: You know this issue that Makai, my member, and many others here at Mixergy have brought up is one that you relate to, because as you told me before we started, there was a time when you went through this. You were selling and – here let me bring up our cameras. You were selling in New York City, selling directly to agencies, and, do you remember what happened?
Bryan: Yeah, so I started off always cold calling, and I — sorry I’m just looking at my computer.
Andrew: Uh huh.
Bryan: I was never, like I never had meetings. I had no leads, I just needed to meet with these clients in sales, and I would call into these agencies, or I would email into the agency. And I would get a meeting with them and about nine months later I was still in advertising. And nine months later I would get this email back and they have an RFP, they want me to submit on this request for proposal.
Andrew: Sounds like success! You are reaching out, they finally are saying yes.
Bryan: Yeah, it’s great. You know, someone’s actually going to buy. And so 18 hours to do it, it’s going to take five hours of work, so we scramble to do it, and they submit on a different plan. So I get this email, “Hey Bryan, thanks so much for submitting, we’re not going to move forward.” So that happens once. And then it happens again, like the next month. And then a third time it happens, for another client.
And this is after like nine months of taking these people out to lunch, spending a thousand dollars on them at lunch, their whole team. And you get this whole last, which you’re stoked to do, because there’s a chance you’re actually going to get the deal. So I get the email and then I email the guy back, and was like, “Hey, can we talk for a couple of minutes,” because I’m okay if I don’t win the deal, but I want to know why because it’s something I probably didn’t do before. And I said, “Did you submit our plan?”
A plan is all these different vendors, and he’s like, “Yeah we submitted a plan.” “Okay, did the client see what it is we’re doing?” “Well, no the client never saw it.” Why am I jumping through these hoops for these guys that aren’t even going to present what it is that we do to the end client. And that was the last agency I ever called on. Because what I realized was that I was in the wrong room with the wrong people.
Now, they could say no to me, but they couldn’t say yes to me. And there’s a specific question you have to ask in a meeting to find out if you’re talking to the decision maker. But what I realized from the very, very, very, very beginning was, who do you want to reach and who are you going to to write to? If you get that wrong, it doesn’t matter how great you are at your demo or closing or pitching or asking questions. You’re not setting yourself up for success nine months down the road.
Andrew: All right, and we’re going to get into who the right people are. But I also should acknowledge that you at least got further than most people did in that sense that you actually got in the room. You actually found the email address. You actually found what to say to them to get that conversation.
So I want to understand how you did that and I also want in this session to cover what you should have done to close the sale after putting in all that effort. I should say that this was in the early part of your career. Later on, you actually got so good that you told me before we started recording that you’re so good that you could show up late. Why was showing up late such an indication of success?
Bryan: So I’m looking away, thinking. It was like the freedom to do whatever I wanted. As a seller, the thing that I was attracted to was making more money based on how I worked, right? So, it was the easiest way for me to…
Andrew: Yeah, that looks good right there.
Bryan: You like the tie? I got dressed up for you guys today.
Andrew: I like the tie, yes. So, the easiest way to…
Bryan: To have like freedom and autonomy to do whatever I wanted. So, if I… And make more money. If I worked harder, if I worked smarter I’d make more in commissions versus it’s just the time-based income, I don’t have any control over how much I’m going to make because I was in my 20s and I wanted to earn a lot of money.
Andrew: Okay, all right. So, you say, you went from pounding the pavement and not getting any sales and actually getting jerked around for a long time to suddenly being so good at it that you can close sales with so little effort that you actually had free time for yourself, the ability to show up late, the confidence that knowing that even if you do show up late you can still close the sales and bring in predictable revenue.
I want to learn how you did this. We — you and I and the team here at Mixergy isolated these key tactics, these key approaches for doing it right and it all starts with asking yourself, as you said before, “Which company do you want to reach?” Right?
Bryan: Yeah. So, this is the process. We’re going to walk through it. Most people, they want what subject line should I write? How do I find the email address? You know, can you give me a template? It will cover all that, but the first step that we talked about is, who’s the right company for you to reach and if you get that right, you’re going to have a lot more success later on in actually closing the deal and making it a much larger deal. So, the challenge I had was now that I’m teaching this to people, how can they get the most impact with the least amount of work because not all mediums are created equal, right? As we just talked about, right? Not all clients are created equal. So, what I… So, there’s a gentleman out in Phoenix and his company and he wanted to do … Gosh, what did he want to do?
Bryan: Go ahead.
Andrew: Maybe we can talk about this example. You closed this company, Western Union. What were you selling to Western Union? What were you selling to Western Union?
Bryan: So, for Western Union I was selling essentially voice audio ads on international calling cards. Right? You know, something really sexy.
Andrew: Okay, so people were buying international calling cards and you were selling advertising and you said, Western Union would be good. But frankly, lots of companies could be good. Why was Western Union the right company for that?
Bryan: So, it’s finding the right product fit, it’s finding the right fit for your product. That’s more important than just getting in with just anybody. If you’re a startup, you’re going to throw like spaghetti at the wall in some level because you don’t know who’s going to really resonate with what you have, but for us it’s like we had international calling cards.
People in the U.S. calling internationally, and I met with Pepsi and I met McDonalds, and I met with all these companies and they’re, you know, they can put their money anywhere and they liked it. They kind of shrugged their shoulders and I’m like, I need to find somebody who really cares, who really needs this. And so I wrote to Western Union, flew out to Denver, in the meeting with these guys and we’re talking about, Hey listen, these people are calling the people they send money to.
We can segment based… then they kind of walk through like what some of the challenges that their business had. And at the time they could buy Hispanic newspapers or networks or whatever, but they really wanted a segment based on, I want to reach Argentinians in the U.S.. I want to reach people from the Dominican Republic in New York City, and other than buying a billboard, that was really difficult for them to do.
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: So, the guy turned to me in the meeting and he’s like, “Hey, this is awesome. This makes so much sense.” And I was like, “Yeah. Why do you think I wrote you? This is a great fit for you and a great fit for us.” So, it’s more about them wanting to partner with you, than you having some ninja sales skills. We can talk about ninja sales skills, but…
Andrew: And I do want what you were saying earlier that we’re going to cover, which is what do we write in those emails? How do we get people’s email addresses? What happens if they don’t respond to us? We will cover it all, but you’re saying the very first thing, the most important thing is to find the right company to pitch because, in your situation, because you were pitching Western Union, a company that was facilitating money transfers internationally.
Someone in the U.S. would be able to send money to their family in Argentina. They wanted to reach people who are calling family in Argentina. Perfect match. That’s where it all starts. Do I have that right?
Bryan: Yeah. You have it perfect.
Andrew: All right. Boom. On to the next big point. I’m going to bring up the big board right there. Find your top two or three customers. Before you even tell me what to write in an email, you’re telling me… Boy that light is really getting in your face. You have a beautiful view…
Andrew: I can see the sun is shining right…
Bryan: It is a beautiful view.
Andrew: Yes. If you’re okay…
Bryan: It’s like the sun’s coming down in New York City. I’m going to show everybody the view if you want, but…
Andrew: Yeah. Maybe in a little bit. I’d love to see it. If you flip around the camera are we going to lose the connection?
Bryan: Well, let’s just show people real quick. We’re live. Let’s see.
Andrew: You set it up so perfectly, and then the sun started to set over there.
Bryan: I don’t know if you can see…
Bryan: …the World Trade Center or New York City.
Bryan: I’m in my apartment right now because it’s much quieter here than my office.
Andrew: All right. Let’s make sure that we find a spot that you’re comfortable. There that’ll work. Kind of…
Bryan: I think I just need to move over here.
Andrew: Okay. Yeah.
Bryan: All right…
Andrew: Here we go. All right. Find your top two or three customers. This is where you were starting to say the Phoenix story a moment ago…
Bryan: Yes. Now I’m teaching different companies who they should reach out to.
Bryan: And I’m always trying to find a quicker way. For one, for me to get the information across and two, for them to have the impact with the least number of steps.
Bryan: I was kind of racking my brain because I can’t call and talk to every single person.
I was talking to a company out in Phoenix, and he wanted to reach… He wanted to get on Craig’s list and reach people who were advertising jobs. He’s the local job board in Phoenix. I was kind of listening to him and so I just asked him, “Who’s your largest client?” “How much?” And he was like, “Well, what do you mean?” “Well, who spent the most amount of money with you last year?”
Bryan: He said, “Oh, well, it’s this grocery store.” He’s like, “Well, how much money did they spend? Tell me about it.” Because he’s going after $500 transactions.
Bryan: I wanted him to think a little bit bigger. He was like, “Well, they spent $20,000 with us.” Okay. Well, why is their strategy to go after…how many would that be? Forty $500 clients? Versus one $20,000 client. It just repeats.
We started digging into his business and why this grocery store was so good for him. What it turned out was that they were required to have…People who lived really close to this grocery store chain had a lot of turn-over because that is just the nature of this job, and they hired a lot of employees. So they needed something local. For this guy, this was great because he has a very niche, local product, and his transactions were based on every time they posted something. One client: dozens and dozens of transactions every year…
Andrew: I see. I see and…
Bryan: Then we take that and we say, “Okay, well, if this is really good, and these are some of the attributes that are really good for you, let’s go after more of these types of clients. What other grocery stores are in that area? What other companies fit that profile?”
Because one, you now understand that business a little bit better: I go to Western Union, and my second call… My second email is Master Card and MoneyGram and Bank of America. Let’s talk about what you guys are doing here because I know a lot more about what Western Union is doing and what you guys are trying to do. So I already have a story. Which means that they’re much more likely to respond to your emails as well.
Andrew: I see. That makes sense. Where some of us might say, “I have this big client, he must be an outlier if is he’s spending $20,000 while most of my other clients are spending hundreds. He must be an exception. Great. We have him, but that’s not our business.” You’re telling us, “No. Look at those exceptions that are writing him off. Look at that person and see what attributes do other companies have in common.”
Bryan: Yeah. Let the client lead you in the right direction.
Bryan: For everybody, if you’re listening in, look at last year. Who’s your top client? We’ll go through this exercise. I also understand, “Why are they so good?” Because in the email we’re going to be identifying what were the key driving forces. Who’s your second largest client? How much revenue? Who’s your third? At some point there’s going to be a complete drop off. It will be like, 300,000, 200,800, 250,000, 42,000. It’s like, Okay, let’s look at these companies and duplicate more of those companies. It’s going to be easier for you. You understand their business. You’re more referenceable, and why not model what is the most successful.
Andrew: Okay. All right. I see that. So let’s go on to the big board, and the next big idea for us to talk about is, interviewing those best customers and using their language. Let’s see if I can show how you did that. Where is that? There it is. I’m going to show survey monkey survey. This is how you did it. Zoom in really big on this.
Bryan: Okay. So the context here, and anyone here can go to that link. It’s live. So the important thing is when you’re interviewing your clients- I did this for testimonials. I want to make it really easy for people to answer questions to provide testimonials because I’d always get, hey, this was great. I really appreciate all these meetings. This is amazing. If I ever ask somebody for a testimonial, I get this testimonial and it’s like, oh man, I can’t really use this. Has that ever happened to you?
Andrew: Yeah. That happens all the time. People become very effusive. But it’s not useful. No one else would want to read someone’s testimonial if it just says, “Andrew is just really great guy. I’m so lucky to know him. This is terrific. Everything’s great.” It feels excessive.
Bryan: Yeah. It’s kind of empty.
Andrew: Yeah. No substance.
Bryan: Yeah. There’s no substance.
Andrew: Okay. Is this about getting testimonials that you can use to close sales in the future? Or to understand the language so that you can copy the way that people describe their problem when you’re talking to new customers?
Bryan: So when you get in the mind of- let’s take the context of an email- when you get in the mind of your current customers, you can get in the mind of your prospects.
Bryan: I don’t have the answers. Most of my clients for the most part don’t have the answers. They’re too close to the problem. But if they ask their client the right questions, they can get the right phrases to understand what their client was dealing with, which is very likely the exact same thing that their prospects are dealing with.
Andrew: So let’s take a look at these questions. They are questions like, what was your first impression when you heard about this training? This is the training that you now offer. Why were you skeptical- Sorry.
Bryan: Let me frame the questions.
Andrew: All right.
Bryan: The questions fit into three categories. There is the before we started working together category. What is the beginning of the survey say?
Andrew: Thank you for providing a testimonial. You rock. Directions. Please answer the questions in a specific way. Write your answers as if you were writing someone who is considering joining the training. Imagine you are on the fence, and it will be your testimonial that will help make a choice.
Bryan: Right. So I’m changing the context of how they even answer the question. I’ll do a lot of future pacing. What this is is actually pacing back in history.
Bryan: Right? So now as we go through the questions, can you pull up the doc?
Bryan: So what was your first impression? Why were you skeptical? Keep going. What convinced you? All right. Stop. So those first three questions are all questions to model their thoughts before we started working together. Right? In this example it’s a testimonial, but what we want to get because the prospect is their thinking. This is where they are. If you ask somebody, “Hey, why do you like to work with us?” They’ll say, “Oh, you’re really responsive. Your service is great. We can always depend on you.” The person who is considering working with you doesn’t care.
Bryan: That’s not where they are. That’s answered from the person who’s already been working with you who is answering your question to the best of their ability. So now the second level question, can we go back-
Andrew: Yeah. Let’s bring that up.
Bryan: What happened when we first got the training? Context for this is a testimonial. What was the biggest challenge that the strategies helped you solve? What did it feel like when you saw these strategies work? So we’re getting more into the emotion. And this is more like their journey through the whole thing, their journey through working with us. Then at the end if you can go to the very end.
Andrew: Yeah. Here it comes.
Bryan: …you know, so what amount of business dollars and cent? What amount of potential business? That’s two different numbers. Which part of the product can you see have a lasting change impact? And then provide your contact information. So, I literally send people this and I get these amazing, glowing responses which we can share one of them.
Andrew: Before I show one…for people who are doing direct 1 to 1 sales who don’t have so many customers that they need to survey them but they do have enough they could talk to them in person. You want them to ask questions of their best customers like, what was it like before you bought?
Bryan: Okay. So here are the questions in the context of the interview,
Andrew: Yes, what are the three categories of questions? And we would just be on the phone with a customer or we would be in person or maybe over a drink. We’d be talking to them and asking these questions so we would understand where they were.
Bryan: Okay. So the context is to email two or three customers, and this is all in my course what I talk about. So, email two or three customers. Say “I’m working on this project. Do you have 10 or 15 minutes to talk?”
Bryan: So they’ll get on the calendar. They can have 10 or 15 minutes. I give them a series of questions. And really what we want to get to is that pre-unit before we started working together. What were you really trying to do? What was important……
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: …to you? Who else were you considering? Why did you pick us? Why not these other guys? What was your biggest fear in hiring us? What was your biggest fear if we didn’t solve this problem?
Bryan: Why was that important to you? And we want to get into their world as far as like what was it that was really going on in their world at that time. Because whatever they say, like record the call, take notes because you want the actual words that people use. The actual phrases because we’re going to use those phrases in our email later on down the road.
Bryan: [??] on your website because there is a real difference between the way we speak about it and the way your actual prospect will think about it.
Andrew: Okay. So let’s take a look then. Here are some of the responses that you got.
Bryan: Actually, I want to give ever body another question. I was trying to make these points of contact as valuable as possible. So it’s another opportunity to say, if they are saying glowing things about you, would you mind doing a testimonial? And they’ll say, “I’m happy to”. And then you can say I’ll send you a survey. There are nine questions on it. Just kind of walk them through the whole thing.
And then, also at the end of the conversation they probably feel pretty good about us. I’ll always ask for a referral. I use this, like magic phrase. I’ve tried to beat this phrase but there is literally like 20 different phrases that I use in meetings at different times. And they just work.
Andrew: What’s the magic phrase, the one that works the best?
Bryan: Well before I tell you, I’ll tell you what people do. They take the phrase, they change it and it doesn’t work.
Bryan: It has to be spoken this way. And what I’ll say is, “based upon what you know about us, can you think of anybody else that it might make sense to talk to”? Or, “can you think of anybody else it might make sense for us to talk to”? So they will take their 400 close personal connections, think about all the conversations they have ever had in their life and say; “you know what, there is one…I was actually talking to somebody” or whatever it is.
And they will come up with one or two people for you to talk to. It may be internally at their company or may be at a different company. Because, if you think about it, this person is in a certain role. They are going to know other people at previous companies in a very similar role. They go to trade shows, they go to…and they’ll distill the 400 contacts that they know down to one or two. And, now you have a referral that we can talk about in the email…..
Bryan: …into another meeting before you have to cold email anybody.
Andrew: All right. So then, let’s take a look at 1 of the responses that you got back and see how it could be useful later on. Zoom out…what part is most important for me to zoom in on because there is so much on this?
Bryan: So this is just a story.
Bryan: So we sent this to somebody. I think I covered up his name. But we just said, “What’s the first impression when you heard about our training”? Because we have a training on how to do all this stuff on cold emailing and for sales calls. He said, “I thought there was no way you could get a 90 percent response rate from a cold email, from top level executives in Fortune 500 companies. He’s not part of our marketing because literally that’s what our clients steal from.
Andrew: I see. So if he said, “Before I signed up” . . . I thought there was no way I could get a 90% response rate from cold calling, from cold emailing, top level executives in the Fortune 500 companies. When you talk to potential customers you say, “I can help you get 90% response rate from cold emailing top level executives.” Is that what it is?
Bryan: Right. You’re going to get a 90% response.
Andrew: I see. Because you said 90% response rate, you’re saying 90%.
Bryan: Because across the board they’re not getting 90%, they’re getting 80%. When I write people, nine out of ten times they’re going to respond but . . .
Andrew: Using the template we’re about to talk about.
Bryan: Yeah. Using the template we’re about to talk about.
Andrew: Let’s see the other way. What else are you grabbing from this that allows you to change your marketing and change the way you talk about your product? Here it is.
Bryan: So the questions have changed a little bit, like the coaching for everybody on the call was to understand the before, the during, and the after.
Bryan: And then he says because 90% open reply rates seem like a ridiculous claim. He mistyped, I tried to email a template. That was a bonus for you to download what we’re going to talk about today. Simply, it worked. This is amazed balls, freaking. Amazingly good, it works. Holy shit!
Bryan: You know, what happened when you got the product? I started getting meetings with bigger companies, and I got them really fast. What was the biggest challenge that helped you solve getting the right people? And then it talks about the revenue and everything else, the whole story. So we’re making it really easy for him to give us really valuable information . . .
Bryan: . . . in a way that it’s really consumerable based on where my audience is when they’re considering a purchase.
Andrew: How would you use this? Can you give me an example of how you might use some of this language to . . .
Bryan: I wouldn’t use these questions.
Andrew: You wouldn’t? I see. There would be other questions that you would use.
Bryan: Yeah. So . . .
Andrew: Do you have an example of a question you might use and how the answer to it would be helpful?
Bryan: So I think I talked a little bit about this, but what was your biggest desire?
Bryan: Like when you were considering working with us, what were you trying to solve?
Bryan: What was the challenge you were having at the time?
Bryan: Not where you’re at now, but like where you were.
Andrew: Okay. I see. So if we’re talking about . . .
Andrew: I’m sorry.
Bryan: What was your biggest fear when hiring us? You want to get in their head. What were they trying to do How did you help solve that?
Andrew: I see. All right. And I could see then now if I hear how they describe the biggest problem that they needed me to help solve, I could then describe to a potential customer, “You might be feeling” and then talk about that problem. And they should be hopefully nodding because they’re feeling that I’ve described their problem so well that now they trust me to have the solution.
Bryan: What is something you bought in the past that was high ticket for you?
Andrew: I don’t specifically have an especially high ticket. Here’s one. I needed a second virtual assistant, someone to handle things like call up an airline and see if I can get this flight, find out where the local EMS station because we’re going to have a baby and we need that number just in case. So that was a commitment of a lot of money.
Bryan: Around how much money?
Andrew: Not huge, around a few hundred bucks.
Bryan: Can you think of something that’s a bigger ticket item maybe past companies? Like you hired some big time consultants or spent a lot?
Andrew: I can think of a few of those, so a PR firm, for example. We spent, I think, $20,000 a month on a PR firm.
Bryan: Okay. And were they pretty good?
Andrew: I’d say so.
Bryan: Okay. So when you were thinking about hiring the PR firm . . . Say I’m at the PR firm. And I’m interviewing you to find out how to approach other companies like you, right?
Bryan: And you’re the CEO of the firm and I’m like, “Hey, Andrew, do you have 10-15 minutes to talk about this?
Andrew: I see what you’re saying totally. Okay. So they might identify me as the one customer they have that did not negotiate for a significantly lower price or didn’t negotiate at all. They might say, “Why, Andrew, did you come to us. What’s the problem?” And I would answer, “I felt like we were doing well with the business, and no one knew about us.
Everyone who sucked in business was getting a ton of press, and I was being ignored and neglected and treated like we didn’t even exist. And I decided I would spend some money, hire someone to show the world that we do exist and that we are running a company that’s doing well.
Bryan: So when you say that you don’t exist, what does that mean?
Andrew: It means I would open up magazines and look at websites and see that they’re reporting about these companies and completely ignoring us. They were reporting on big companies that have no substance but a lot of attention and small companies that we compete with that I know I’m beating because . . .
Andrew: I know their revenues and they’re not even talking about me.
Bryan: So why was this frustrating for you?
Andrew: It was frustrating because it lowered the morale in the company. People felt like, well, maybe this isn’t a real thing for some reason. Unless the media says it’s a real thing it’s not a real thing. And potentially it kept us from being talked about by acquirers. It made it harder for us to make sales calls to people.
Bryan: Okay, and why did you want somebody to acquire you?
Andrew: I wanted to see the possibilities, not so much to close a sale.
Bryan: Okay, so you wanted the options of having potential suitors.
Andrew: To see what we could potentially get.
Bryan: How did it make sales calls more difficult?
Andrew: I would have to work really hard to get anyone to even take my call, take me seriously. They would hear my numbers, and they wouldn’t believe them.
Bryan: Okay, and were you having trouble closing new business with that?
Bryan: Okay, and how is morale affecting you?
Andrew: People at the company felt like this was just an art project almost instead of a business, or if they believed it was a business they thought it was some kind of hustle because why would no one know that we existed if we were doing so well.
Bryan: How did the hustle affect you? I’m not clear.
Andrew: The sense that maybe we were doing well by cheating somehow or by doing something strange because otherwise everyone would know about us, the way they know about Yahoo, the way they know about Instagram.
Bryan: Okay. So it seemed sort of like a creditability issue.
Andrew: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Bryan: Okay. So you need to stop this.
Bryan: So what I get is I got more of the root of what was actually happening with the PR.
Bryan: I can just keep going and just asking questions.
Andrew: It seems like a therapy session for me.
Bryan: Say it again.
Andrew: It felt like a therapy session. You’re really getting at my inner motivation.
Bryan: Right. So we’re trying to get to the emotion of it so people buy for three reasons: fear, frustration, desire. I asked you what was it that frustrated you about, right? And so that’s how I look at sales, really as more like you’re a therapist or a doctor. What seems to be the problem? And then where people misstep is they ask the one question and then they don’t continue to ask.
So you wanted PR. You wanted to be in the media. These other guys were doing it, but that wasn’t the reason. The real reason, as we were kind of getting into it and there’s three of them One is morale which is more about credibility in there somewhere, right? The second was, well, we were talking about closing more sales.
Bryan: Not being able to close those sales, finding somebody to acquire you.
Bryan: So the PR was really a gateway for all these other things that could help solve that problem.
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: And then we could go into like, well, what was it like when we started working together? How did you feel? How did you know when it was really successful? Now if I’m the PR company and I’m writing to other organizations, if I want to reach the CEO where’s the CEO’s mind, right? The CEO’s mind is about employee morale in the company. It’s about finding suitors and having an exit plan, right? Because it’s the CEO. You want to get in the mind of that guy. You shouldn’t have to understand . . .
Andrew: I see. So I wouldn’t keep talking about how when the PR company is pitching another potential customer like me would keep talking about how they would get that client inside USA Today, but instead would say, “This could lead to acquisition offers. This will make your people so excited that they’re going to be proud to work for you. This will make it easier for you to get calls returned, and it might show people how significantly large you are.”
Bryan: Yeah. It closes more business, and it beats your competition. And if you have VC funding, you only have a certain amount of shelf life or time. So you have less time and more money, right? So you need to get the message out there and have first revenge, but that’s just like the surface of what we’re talking about. And the questions are what’s most important. To get in your mind. Now, when we’re talking to the next guy who is the CEO of a startup he probably had some similar issues that [inaudible]
Andrew: I see. You know what. This part was maybe the most valuable part of the whole conversation for me. Now I totally get it. I like that you were able to just do this on the fly. I get it. Okay.
Bryan: Yeah, that’s what I do every day. Do you know why you liked it?
Bryan: Because it was about you.
Andrew: So, maybe the audience isn’t feeling the same love and [inaudible].
Bryan: No, no. It’s interactive, right. Because it’s live and we’re just talking about this. It gives everybody a context, right. Because now they can see it for themselves. We talked about the five whys. I don’t know if you have that slide available.
Andrew: Yeah, I’m bringing that up on the screen here.
Bryan: It’s . . .
Andrew: I noticed you actually doing that, but I stopped evaluating it. Once I noticed it I said I’m just going to go with where he’s taking me.
Bryan: Yeah, and at any point, and probably in the middle of it, it kind of could see that maybe I didn’t have the rapport to keep asking the questions with you, but thank you for . . . it kind of felt that in the space between us.
Andrew: Oh, you totally had the rapport with me.
Bryan: Well, if you’re realizing what I’m doing you see the technique.
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: Versus it’s really coming through. Right. So, if you’re reading something and think about your reading it, or I’m getting kind of bored reading this you’re not in the moment, or if you’re watching a movie and you’re . . .
Andrew: Yeah, when I’m watching a movie and I say, how did he act that way. Did he have to get into the scene then I’m not really experiencing the movie.
Bryan: They lost you.
Andrew: Right. Okay.
Andrew: Here wait. That’s not one of the [inaudible]
Bryan: That’s one of the challenges in meetings or sales calls with people.
Bryan: You’re constantly battling back and forth with them. We talked a little bit about it. In your interviewing with a mutual friend he called, what was it that you guys called it? The . . .
Andrew: Join the resistance. Where if someone’s resisting me instead of arguing back with them in the interview I join the resistance and then they start to open up.
Bryan: Yeah. I call it the pendulum technique, which I learned from Sandler Sale Institute which is essentially going with whatever their objection is or their concern is and actually doubling down on it. We can talk about that later.
Andrew: Okay. All right. On to the next then. Why don’t we go to what many people I’m sure have come to this conversation for, I’ll bring it up there, finding the right email address. There are many ways to do this. You talk about them on your site. Why don’t we link to this post where you talk about it. Here, this is the one.
Bryan: This is the official launch of coldemailing.com. I love that image.
Andrew: Oh, this one image is on the site when you launched.
Bryan: The video.
Andrew: Okay. The [inaudible]
Bryan: Watch this guy. Wait, go back to that.
Andrew: Okay. There are many different approaches for finding someone’s email. One of them is you like jigsaw.com, which has now been renamed data.com.
Bryan: Right, yes.
Andrew: What do we do there?
Bryan: Yeah, go to coldemail.com and talk about the nine steps to finding an email address. This is step number two. Data.com.
Andrew: Let’s bring it up here.
Bryan: Jigsaw with everyone provides their email addresses. First step to finding someone’s email address is to find the right, well, the first step to cold emailing a company is to finding the right people. You go in. You’ll log in. I think there’s a screen shot of a company and you just write the C level, or VP of marketing. It’s going to give you all the marketing people. Then you have the names of the people in the organization in literally 15 or 20 seconds.
Then you go in and you use mail tester, or reportive. There’s all kinds of different services there list up about actually how to find the email address.
Andrew: One way is to just go to jigsaw.com or data.com. I keep forgetting to call them data.com, right. We go to data.com. We say I want to reach Western Unions ethnic marketer. Type in that?
Bryan: You know who everyone wants to reach? I always ask people who they want to reach. Everyone wants to reach Google.
Bryan: It’s the number one company.
Andrew: Okay. Can I do that?
Bryan: Yeah, you go in. You type Google, right.
Bryan: It’s going to say there’s 25,000 or however many people they have on their list. Okay, my discipline is IT, or finance, or marketing, or whatever it is. You’ll either search based on, I would search either based on marketing, right, or I would search C level executive. I get a list of all the names of the people. Then I go to say, VP marketing and get a list of all the people. I am now finding the right people to reach out to, to send my email to.
Andrew: Okay. And by the way, Bryan, I’ve had other people on Mixergy say, specifically, going to data.com and cold email doesn’t work.
Andrew: Data.com does work for you. Cold emailing works for you. And the reason data.com, my sense is, cold emailing works for you, because this is your focus. You spend so much time getting it right. And data.com is not 100 percent for you, I think their data is maybe 75% accurate?
Bryan: Yeah, that’s pretty consistent. I’d say 70%.
Andrew: 70%. So if I get ten emails out of there, chances are, three are going to be so old that they’re out-of-date, but the other seven will be valid and if I know what to say to people, it’ll work.
Bryan: Right. So, you’ll know if the emails kick back to you, right? But there’s also, in the steps, all kinds of ways you use mail tester to see if it is a valid email for all these different email addresses.
Andrew: What do you mean? How would you use mail tester to see if the email address is right?
Bryan: You just punch the email address in there, and it tests if the email goes through the servers, the email servers, to see if there’s actually an email address…
Andrew: What is mail tester? Is this mail-dash-tester-dot-com?
Bryan: I think it’s on the list.
Andrew: Let me see.
Bryan: I don’t know. Just google “mail tester”.
Andrew: Oh, it’s just mailtester.com. There it is.
Bryan: Or you can use Rapportive, which is a free plug-in into Google, into Gmail. And if the address does match any social profile, it’ll come up.
Andrew: Oh, here we go. I just typed in my own email address. So, Mixergy.com is valid, and email@example.com is a valid email address. Oh, I didn’t know it worked that way. Alright, perfect. So this is one way out of several that you have up on Cold Emailing, coldemailing.com.
Bryan: So, coldemailing.com, what’s the forward slash for this article?
Andrew: Oh, it’s going to be so long. We should just link over to it.
Bryan: Okay. So, I don’t find email addresses anymore. Right? So hire a virtual assistant, even if… I mean, you can find people for two, three, four dollars an hour to do this kind of work for you.
Bryan: Even if you’re a sales rep, if you’re a CEO, definitely have some… it’s a low-value task.
Bryan: Right? And they can come up with the emails and the names. You’re going to have to give them direction on the right names, which we can talk about, but your audience should be the ones doing this.
Andrew: I see. So we shouldn’t even go breaking through this process. The article is there, people can see it, they can give it to a virtual assistant, the virtual assistant can use it for them.
Bryan: Your audience wants to be showing up on high-value meetings, right?
Bryan: I said, everyone listening here, you need to just have the meeting set for you and show up on the meeting, and have it be like a life-changing meeting.
Andrew: Not test email addresses one at a time and waste your time.
Bryan: Yeah, or not even do the back-and-forth with the email. I mean, that’s… we’ve already codified every email response that somebody can have. We have all the templates written, you know.
Andrew: So you’re saying, I could actually start handing this off to someone else if I were doing sales, even the emailing.
Bryan: Have them watch this video, go through the course, have them do it. If you’re listening in, you need to interview your clients. You need to be the one who’s really hearing the words, hearing the phrases that they use. You need the understanding of what the market’s telling you, and the language that they’re using, developing the email, the initial email, so you, you know, like in different categories. And then, once you have a process, give them the system, and have them run with this outbound, outbound system.
Andrew: All right. Let’s go on, then, to the next point. I want to understand what this is, you’re saying we should use the waterfall technique. What is the waterfall technique and how does this help us understand it? This screenshot.
Bryan: So, this is one of those things that I’ve tried to beat as well.
Andrew: They tried to beat it?
Bryan: Yeah, I mean I’m always testing things, you know, in the emails, and I’ve sent ten thousand different emails. Not like, one email to ten thousand people, but like, ten thousand different emails.
Bryan: And, I could never beat this. And it’s because of the… it’s kind of like Western Union. You know, don’t try to beat them, join them? So, I found… you want me to tell you a story about this?
Andrew: Yeah. I love stories.
Bryan: Alright, so, I was in New York City, sent out an email, was doing some research, trying something new. And, two days later I’m in a bar with my buddy, they leave to go to the bathroom. And I’m looking at my phone… [???] And you know, you’re just kind of scrolling through, like mind- numbing, looking at your emails. And here’s all, here’s all my emails. And I get this email back. It’s like Bryan thank you so much for writing us. It’s like who is this, right?
Normally, it’s like sales guy, please cease and desist. Stop and start carpet bombing. MetroPCS said that to me. I was reading on. We’re so thankful that you wrote us. I’m your point person. We have a weekly call with all of our marketing people.
I want to see if you would be able and willing to present because we can find multiple ways that we can work together. We’d really like if you can come in and present. If you’re able to come meet us or happen to be in Minneapolis, Minnesota, we would love to meet you in person. I look at the cc line. There’s literally six different executives at Best Buy on the Marketing Department who I never could’ve found all on this email.
Andrew: And he is reaching, he’s identifying them for you and reaching them on your behalf?
Bryan: Yeah, she raised her hand…
Andrew: Or, she, excuse me.
Bryan: said I’m your point of contact. I’ll help facilitate this whole thing. And she’s the VP of Marketing of the group. It wasn’t like she was some sort of assistant or somebody. And she invited me to meet with the entire group. So I, of course, was going to be in the neighborhood in Minneapolis, ended up meeting them in person, ended up doing two deals with them. And within 30 days, off of that one email, it was like $50,000 starter budget.
Andrew: So how did you do that? And how does this above-the-rim tactic, or actually, waterfall technique, how does it help us do that?
Bryan: Yeah, so, if you can go visually…
Andrew: Yeah, here it is.
Bryan: So normally, I was with, say, the agencies on the left side. The agency for Best Buy who at some point may be present what I was doing to the client. What I did is I went much, much higher. So I wrote four emails, it was to the Director of Marketing, the VP of Marketing, the CMO, and the CEO. I know the CEO of Best Buy isn’t the right person for me to talk to, but I also know there’s thousands of people at Best Buy. And I know that trying to find the right person for me to talk to at the level who’s actually the decision maker is a long process because I was doing it every day.
And if you think about any organization or company, the same thing holds true in every company. There’s like a social hierarchy built into the organization, and the executives, part of their job, is to delegate. The CMO’s job isn’t to do all the work. The CMO, Chief Marketing Officer, part of it he has to delegate to the VP of Marketing, the VP of Media, the VP of [??], whatever category.
So if I can put together an email that is crafted from the perspective of hey I’m tapping into your mind and thinking like you and here’s an opportunity for you, does it make sense for us to talk? If not, who’s the appropriate person for me to talk to, which we can go into the email. They’ll just delegate it. Talk to Bill Smith. And now I have the job of the person down below is to do a good job for the person up above.
Bryan: So now there’s context for the meeting. And they now have to take my meeting because I just got a direct referral internally.
Andrew: So I see what you’re saying. You don’t go directly to the person you want. You go a step, or even as many as three, above that person, and write your email in a way that will get the person whose above the person you want to send it down to the guy you want.
Andrew: Got it.
Bryan: So in any negotiation…
Bryan: Like I started my career, if I wanted to make 600,000, that was my salary at the end of my career selling. But if I wanted to make $100,000, which was a big deal to me, I would ask for $100,000. And guess how much I got?
Andrew: Eighty or less than 100.
Bryan: Yeah, like 85. And for me it was really hard to think like I have to ask for 120,000? And I’d get 105 just by changing the odds.
Andrew: Okay. So let me see if I understand this, though.
Bryan: “Negotiate Anything” is a great book.
Andrew: So in this image, you are trying to get to the Director of Marketing. And you’re saying, if the Director of Marketing is the person for me to talk to, I’m going to go above his head, or her head, who do you talk to? Do you go to the VP of Marketing? Do you go to the CMO? Or are you emailing everyone above that person?
Bryan: Yes, I’m emailing all four people.
Andrew: You’re emailing all four people in one email.
Bryan: Yeah, separately.
Bryan: So there’s a whole template on this, the 9 Steps to Write the Email, breakthroughemail.com, and it’s literally one of the first or second e- mails that is auto-responder that I will send you. And, it just walks you through the whole.
Andrew: Can you give me an overview of if you’re e-mailing four different e- mails to get to one person? You’re e-mailing the CEO, you’re e-mailing the CMO, you’re e-mailing the VP of Marketing, and you’re e-mailing the person who you want, which is the Director of Marketing, can you just give me an overview of what you’re saying without getting into specifics?
Bryan: Well, I think we have some of the screenshots.
Andrew: Okay. So this is where we get into the e-mail templates?
Bryan: Yeah. This is where we get into the templates.
Andrew: All right. Let’s do that then. Here is the next section, which is to use your e-mail template. It has three sections; purpose, pitch, action. Why don’t we start with the purpose?
Bryan: … Yeah. So, now we’re getting into the subject line. I can give you guys the subject line. But, you’re going to make all of the mistakes that everybody makes. And, you’re going to be frustrated by the outcomes. So, that’s why we’re kind of leading up to finding the right person, finding the people you should contact.
So subject line is appropriate person, be consistent with your subject because since this is a cold outreach you want to be congruent and trust is really important. So, I’m not going to tell you about all of the things that you shouldn’t do. Like saying, “Hey, my name is Bryan Kreuzberger I work through breakthroughemail.com I really think that we should meet.” Because, that’s the worst example of an e-mail that somebody will look at. Because they’re looking at the inbox before in the previous screen is says Bryan Kreuzberger, it says the subject, it says the first two sentences. So, you have to absolutely get to the point in those first two sentences. If you look at my e-mail …
Andrew: I see. Right. There’s always … we see the subject line and then we see up to two sentences in that summary view. Here, let me see …
Bryan: Yeah. So, Megan, Intra, Bryan, Kevin. And, I work with my team. It’s like, “Hey, get to the point.” So I know what the context is. Or, even in the subject line. So, if you’re hitting this executive, they’re looking at their phone, you have three seconds before they decide what to do with your e-mail.
Andrew: Okay. So, in those three seconds here’s what you’ve got us saying, subject line is the appropriate person. Then, in the body the first few sentences in the body are, I’m writing in hopes of finding the appropriate person who handles multi-cultural media, question mark. I also wrote to person X, person Y, and person Z in that pursuit. If it makes sense to talk let me know how your calendar looks.
Andrew: Okay. So, if I’m reaching out to the, what’s it called, the Director of Marketing I would say, I’ve also written to person CFO, excuse me, person CEO, person CMO, person VP of Marketing, put their names in there.
Andrew: Got it.
Bryan: So they know that I’ve spent a little bit more time. Now you can’t cc anybody. That’s the first thing somebody wants to do. They just want to cc everybody. And, because then it becomes way too easy for one of the people to raise their hand and say, “Hey, we’re not interested”. And, you can’t go back. Because what happens is, especially in these large organizations, now this works for small companies, medium-sized, larger companies, but, you’ll get different answers of, “Oh, will talk to Bill Smith.” or, “Oh, talk to Jane … Cunningham.”
And all of a sudden I have a potential deal down in Dallas with AT&T, and a potential deal down in Atlanta. Which happens, because of the way that you frame the e-mail. By creating multiple different opportunities. If I were writing you back in the day with this other company and said, “Hey, I can help you get acquired by potential acquirers.” That might be something you’re interested in. Or, “Hey, I can help you with the morale of your company, and making sure, and the credibility.”
Andrew: I see. And, you might say, “I’ve also e-mailed Richard, I’ve also e- mailed Crystal, I’ve also e-mailed Michael and now I see three familiar names in the chain of command and I realize this guy knows my business. Wouldn’t I then at that point Bryan, alright then one of them is going to respond, I’m not going to respond.
Bryan: Right. So, that’s fine.
Bryan: And, if no one responds the next week. I’d just say, “Hey, I’m writing a follow-up. Never heard back from anyone on the team. Let me know if it makes sense to talk. If not, who is the appropriate person.
Andrew: Got it.
Bryan: And, guess what the CEO does every single time?
Bryan: Because, if it’s framed correctly it’s an opportunity for him, he’s a little surprised that no one on the team responded, and he’s like boom, talk to this guy.
Andrew: Got it. And, he then he forwards your e-mail to that guy?
Bryan: Yeah. Because you have to frame the conversation, there’s this guy Doug Weaver for Upstream Media, and he consults specifically in agencies and brands in New York City. And my wife who works for InStyle was going through his training and she came back and she’s oh this is this great quote which I love, which is, “You’re delegated to who you should like.” So, if you sound like the agency person, you’re going to meet with the agency person. If you sound like the CEO, you’re going to be meeting with CEOs.
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: Why I love email is that you can have 18 rounds of revisions on the email before you hit send. You’re on the phone and you’re like “Hum-ana[SP] hum-ana, ah, sorry to interrupt you, I’m sure you’re really busy right now,” like, whatever it is…
Andrew: And they might actually be really busy right now.
Bryan: Well, they are really busy. You are interrupting. You have to have permission. There’s a whole strategy if you want to, you know, cold call people. But I prefer to have a really targeted email that lands in their inbox and all they have to do is say, “Talk to this guy.”
Andrew: Okay, so the first thing we’ve talked about which is start off with the purpose and I read out what you said there, and next part is…
Bryan: There’s a lot more to like the language, you know. Why we use the word “talk.” “Talk” has a lower implied value of commitment on their part.
Andrew: I see, “If it makes sense to talk let me know how your calendar looks.” Why question marks on so many of these sentences?
Bryan: Actually, in the first one, I wouldn’t have a question mark. That’s a typo. And I have typos all the time. It drives my wife nuts. But my strategy is so much better. Right? So, I can have typos in my emails, which for some people, they just see red — like my wife. It just totally turns them off. But for the most part, I’ll still get the meetings because they’re so much more thought, critical thought put into it and that’s why I get the result. The last sentence question mark will denote action or make a request.
Andrew: Got it.
Bryan: And that’s why I use those.
Andrew: Even though technically it’s not a question, by putting a question at the end, it triggers their need to respond or to think about it in the way they might a question.
Bryan: Yeah, and we use “calendar” because if I ask for their “schedule” or if I ask “How does next week look?” or “How does 10 minutes next week look?,” it’s showing that I have a lower implied value of my own time — if I only ask for ten minutes.
Now, I want them to have a lower commitment at this point because they don’t even know what I’m here to talk about yet. But, it’s like direct marketing. I want to be really clear on what the purpose is of this email as we get into it…
Andrew: Can we copy it exactly as is, with obviously changing the name person X to person X’s name?
Bryan: Yeah, in multi-cultural media. That’s different.
Andrew: Oh right. Okay.
Bryan: And there’s a whole process which we don’t have time to talk about, in how you select the right phrase there. And it’s important because if you don’t nail that correctly, you’re not going to get to the second…
Andrew: Where do you teach that? I want to go on to the Pitch and Action, but if someone wants to go into even more depth than we have here, what’s the Web site where you teach it?
Andrew: There it is. BreakthroughEmail.com.
Andrew: All right, on to actually the next part which is “The Pitch.” Then I’ll spend a little time on this, a little time on “Action” and then go into what happens with the follow-ups.
Bryan: And I’ll actually save some people some time, if you don’t want to go through the auto-responder, you just want to take the course or go to the sales page? BreakthroughEmail.com/pro. It’s not even on there. So, that’s the Sales page. And, if you want to go to the Sales Training, that’s BreakthroughEmail.com/upgrade.
Andrew: So, slash pro gets me into the course and upgrade gets me into what?
Bryan: So, the second half of the course which is, “How am I going to persuade or influence somebody and convert them into a customer?” Like, “I got one shot, I don’t want to waste this opportunity, what do I do and say?” I cover everything in excruciating detail there. And there’s a lot more to that actually because as we were talking you kind of saw me bringing out information from you. And that’s the way to persuade somebody.
Andrew: Okay, let’s go on to just The Pitch for a little bit. So, the first step is we talked about the subject, we talked about expressing the purpose. The next part is The Pitch. What’s going on in this part of the email?
Bryan: So, this is where we go back into you interviewing your clients. Right? So, get to the point in the first sentence of this paragraph, right? Boodrocks [SP] helps increase the revenues of Fortune 500 companies by marketing to Hispanics. Right? So, I can help you by doing this. Right? What we did was very different than increasing revenue, but ultimately if a company wants to increase revenue, like let’s use the PR example.
All right, so XYZ PR company helps startup, you know, increase exposure, which really is – ok well I don’t increase exposure, I want, you know to increase credibility, to close more sales, and increase the likelihood of being acquired.
Andrew: Gotcha. So now, in this part in the pitch, we’re talking about it from the point of view of their needs as past clients expressed it.
Bryan: Yeah, absolutely like, get to the point of…not that like…we do this through media exposure, you know we do this by getting you into all the relevant media outlets that are important to you. Or more specifically, if you have a tech company, we get you into, you know, media outlets that are important to you like New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Business Week, Business 2.0, and Tech Crunch.
Andrew: You know, what I used to do, I used to send pitches asking people to do interviews, and I wish I knew this at the time, because at the end of an interview I could have asked, you know, just done the kind of interview that you’re talking about with my guests, I could have said “Alright, interview’s over Why did- what hesitation did you have about doing this interview? What was the problem that you came into this interview with that you wanted to do this interview, to deal with, et cetera?”
And then my next email to someone, to pitch them on an interview would have said, I would have pitched to them about the interview and ten said, “I can help you with biz-dev[??], build credibility, and also explain yourself to potential employees who will be reaching you.” I see that your kids are home so you really need to wrap this up soon.
Bryan: No we can keep going, I want to keep going. I mean you have to see my two year old.
Andrew: Yeah, do it.
Bryan: Come on Cole, come over here. [laughing] Okay, so you should interview people that you’ve interviewed and ask them, right? To get to “Why did you accept the interview?”
Bryan: Get the language that they use, and also like, at the end of every interview, you should say “Hey, based on what we’re doing, can you think of anybody else you think it might make sense for me to talk to?”
Andrew: That part of the idea was really helpful.
Bryan: Right? And they’ll say, “What do you mean?” Well, “Are there any other guests that you know that I should talk to and I should interview?” Come here.
Andrew: There we go, there’s Cole.
Bryan: Hey Cole, can you wave? Can you say hi?
Bryan: [laughing] Can you say hi?
Andrew: Way to go, Cole.
Bryan: And this is his buddy, Mosey[SP], come here Mosey. Mosey can say hi.
Andrew: Get the camera on you again. Hey, there you go!
Bryan: So Mosey has spring break, the kids have spring break. So…yeah.
Andrew: Let me go to the last part of this section, which is the call to action. This is the end, where we say, “If you’re the appropriate person to speak with, what does your calendar look like? If not, who do you recommend I talk to?” And you have tested this, the word “calendar” gets a 35% higher response than the word “schedule”, the word “talk” gets a 60% increase in response over the word “meet” or “call.”
Andrew: And that’s where you want us to end it. And then “thank you,” signature, name, et cetera.
Bryan: Yeah, so be clear on what you’re asking for. This is like a one-two punch.
Bryan: You know, it’s like meet with me now, or refer me to the right person, and it was just tested stuff, it was like “beat it.” And if you want like an 85% or 92% great, but it’s more about getting the right meetings. If you can go back to the other slide, there’s something really important. I’m going to actually change rooms. But we know we’re live, right?
Andrew: Yeah, here we go, I’ll watch as you walk around.
Bryan: So you need the association, which we didn’t cover, and the association-
Andrew: You’re talking about here in the pitch?
Bryan: Yeah, in the pitch, it’s like the last sentence. There’s a lot more to the pitch, to getting this right. And for most people, it’s going to really matter. But some clients, they don’t know who you are. It’s the same reason why we said in the beginning of this email, the beginning of this presentation, you don’t know who Bryan Kreuzberger is or breakthrough email, but hey the guy who closed 20 million dollars in sales, maybe I should listen to him. Hey, he worked with McDonald’s, Mastercard, Bank of America, I like them as clients, maybe I should listen to him. You know, like those clients that generate 30 million . . .
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: The clients have generated $30,000,000 in revenue maybe I should listen to them. So, if you have referenceable clients, a whole different strategy if you’re a startup, but if you have referenceable clients you want to tell them. I’ve seen the email trails. They’re, like, well, hey, they’re working with this company maybe we should talk to them.
Andrew: And if you don’t have clients what’s the alternative? If you don’t have this many big name clients.
Bryan: You never want to include something that’s going to make you look worse.
Bryan: Right. If I’m working with, Tom’s Auto Garage, in New York City, and it’s just not referenceable. It’s not relatable to whom I’m writing to don’t include them. There’s whole modules on just how do you write a pitch. Then within the pitch I want four or five different opportunities for the person, for the people I’m writing at multiple levels. We talked about media exposure. Really quickly within three or four minutes we got to what that media exposure really meant to you as a C.E.O.
Bryan: Spoken like a CEO.
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: This is a deep sea fishing technique, which we could cover in a different point, or you could just take the course.
Andrew: Would it work if I were to say to the audience if they don’t have clients, like, Burger King, and P.N.G., and Chilis the way you did, leave that part out. Do keep in the parts that are important, like, the redemption 3%, 500 companies, et cetera.
Andrew: Okay. Just keep what you’ve got and [inaudible]
Bryan: There are 25,000,000. I know that scale is really important to these guys. I know why people buy media, right. It’s scale. It’s [inaudible 1:55].
Andrew: I see. We reached 25,000,000 Spanish speakers. Got it.
Bryan: How does it work? We insert 30 second audio and SMS advertisements in phone calls. Now, there was a 10 second ad, a 20 second ad. I didn’t want to get into that kind of detail. All right. Where’s the environment? Calling cards. What is the benefit of the users, right? That’s our one concern.
Andrew: Got it.
Bryan: All right. Next sentence. Within the email and different verticals you need a different email for different verticals.
Andrew: Okay, but the structures still the same. We’ll still talking about purpose, pitch, action.
Bryan: Pretty much, yeah.
Andrew: Okay. All right. On to the final point, which is send up to three follow up emails. If you don’t get a response what do we say in the follow up emails?
Bryan: It’s really simple. Include the original email. Just hit reply. Hey, I’m writing a follow up on my last email.
Andrew: Okay. I think I’ve got it then. This is it. All right. Let me bring it up. I’m writing a follow up on an email I sent a few weeks ago.
Bryan: [inaudible ] I’ll change the context for this. You know what? In the template breakthroughemail.com you’ll get all the other two emails. You’re just replying and saying hey, I never heard back from anyone on the team. Does it make sense to talk? If not, who’s the appropriate person? Now, the C.E.O. , or the higher level person just delegated it to the lower level person, and you get your meeting.
There’s a whole strategy. There’s five responses that you can get. Hey, we’re not interested. Hey, we’re not interested right now, which is a different response, or I”m already working with somebody. Here’s a referral of the person. I referred you to the appropriate person. If they respond I’ll let you know. There’s maybe one more response, or can you send me more information? Every single one of those responses we’ve coded and have responses to.
Andrew: You look out the window as you’re answering. Was there something going on outside?
Bryan: No, whenever I’m thinking I don’t look at the . . .
Bryan: Whenever I’m trying to recall something, and that’s another thing. If you ever look at it like human psychology, there where somebody looks it will show where they’re trying to place information. If you look down, or look left, or look right you’re trying to process information in your brain in a different place.
This is the kind of stuff you end up looking into as you’re trying to convince 50 or 60 year olds who have 10s of millions of dollars to spend with your company. How are you going to persuade this guy?
Andrew: This is your business. This is what you’ve been doing now for how many years?
Andrew: Ten years. All right.
Bryan: Go to this last email.
Bryan: Because this one’s good for everybody. If you have somebody who’s not responding to you this is the permission to close your file email. Literally, it gets the unresponse’s person to respond in conjunction with the pendulum technique. What is it that you call?
Andrew: For me it’s, with interviewing it’s called, well, it’s not that’s it’s called, we call it, join the resistance. I ask someone what about some difficult times in business? He goes, I have no difficult times. Was there any challenges at all? He goes, no, everything just floated really well. They’re resisting my request for them to open up, which makes for a very boring interview and unopen person.
Instead of fighting them the way I used to now I join their resistance to me. I go oh, then everything must have gone smoothly for you. I’ve seen businesses and heard businesses like this where nothing goes wrong and everything just turns out well. Congratulations, you’re really lucky to have had that. If I join the resistance they shoot right back and they go, are you kidding me? Easy. I was up late last night and the server was down. You know who has to take care of it? I have to take care of it.
Five years ago there was no one else except for me. We didn’t even have a server. Anyway, you call it the pendulum technique. Why?
Bryan: Say, here’s this pendulum.
Bryan: If you’re pushing it this way and you want them to go this way and they’re saying, no, it was always really easy and great. What you do is you push the pendulum way up here. Oh, it sounds like this is just really easy for you. That’s awesome you’re whole business and career is worked out so great and you never had any issues. They’ll say, wo, wo, wo.
Bryan: They’ll come back over here and say no, it wasn’t always that easy. I had struggle like anybody else. Guess who gets a call when the websites down?
Andrew: Right. To this day.
Bryan: Right. If I say . . .
Andrew: How does a pendulum technique . . .
Bryan: Wait, before you do that can you sell me this pen?
Andrew: Can I sell you the pen?
Bryan: I’m just teasing.
Andrew: Oh. I thought I was so clever. It was in one of my management books in college as an interview question. Sell me this pen. That was one of my questions for sales people at Mixergy.
Andrew: I mean, not at Mixergy. My past company. Let’s just wrap this up with this. What are we saying here and how does it relate to a pendulum?
Bryan: Yeah. They haven’t responded. We get that they haven’t responded. You are now politely stalking the person. It matters to you. Right. These are the people, when it matters to you and you feel uncomfortable sending this, this is when you send this. Essentially, just say I’m writing to follow up on the emails I sent. Excuse me, the email, or call, or whatever happened.
Bryan: You always have to customize it. Something just happened, right, which is I just met with my business partner, or everyone has a sales manager, or I just met with my CEO.
Bryan: My CEO asked about the account.
Andrew: There’s some excuse for something that happened recently we have to bring up.
Bryan: Which probably happened, may or may not, right, something logical.
Bryan: I’m in the process of closing files for the quarter, right, or for the month, or whatever. I’m in the process of closing files of everyone I’ve talked to in the last six months, or for all the proposals I’ve put out there. Whatever you say. You just tailor it. Nobody knows what closing your file means.
Bryan: That’s why it works so great. Typically, when I haven’t heard from someone it either means they’re really busy, or aren’t interested. I know everyone’s really busy, right. That’s just a set up for not being interested. Really busy also means that I’m not making them wrong because I literally, written them twice and called them twice and left voicemails. I’m thinking about them and their not thinking about me.
It gives them the permission to say, hey, I’m not interested, or hey, yeah, I’ve been meaning to get back to you. If you aren’t interested do I have permission to close your file? If you are still interested, or if that’s not the case what do you recommend as the next step?
Andrew: I see.
Bryan: Eight out of ten people will respond because you’re now going away. Back to the pendulum. You get where they’re at. You’re not making them wrong to do it. You make it really for them to respond. You can use this in the fourth email in the sequence. You can use this for all those, write this down right now and send this to two or three people. Then just email me at firstname.lastname@example.org. I get emails all the time. Dude, it actually worked.
Andrew: Even if I haven’t followed up with people with two other emails. If I’ve emailed someone and they didn’t respond I should be following up with them with this. Use the pendulum technique and then when I get a response I should forward it over to you, Bryan@breakthroughemail.com.
Bryan: I just love to hear the successes. This is one of those easy templates where it works.
Andrew: I get it. You’re taking away an opportunity from them completely, and so if they [??] respond.
Bryan: Think of it like dating. If you’ve called a girl two or three times and left voice mails, and emailed her. Are you going to keep calling her? No it’s creepy. As sales people we do that stuff all the time. We live in this other context of, “I’m the subservient person to the real decision maker.” They can tell me to jump whenever they choose. It’s their job. [background noise]
Andrew: Then we end up creeping them out also if we keep doing it.
Bryan: Then they’re in total control. The whole point of this thing is to be in control and know where you are.
Andrew: All right. The website…
Bryan: I got a two year old who is ready to hang out.
Andrew: You know what I get it. You’ve been now, with everything else now, you’ve been on the phone for over two hours. I will just tell everyone, if you’re watching and you want to follow up breakthroughemail.com is the place to do it. They can also go to what? It’s breakthroughemail.com/pro break…?
Bryan: Pro is the course and Upgrade is the…
Andrew: If they want to take a full on course with you to get more, that’s where they should go.
Bryan: Exactly. I hope this is valuable…
Andrew. Really valuable.
Bryan: I would have spoken a bit longer. I started this company because I had all these problems. It was brutal for years. People create products they just need to know how to get it into the hands of the right people and the right customers. Literally, a couple of people can change your business and it doesn’t have to be that hard.
Andrew: Thank you so much for doing it. I’ll let you go spend time with the family. Thank you all for being part of it. Bye guys.